hey, can i ask a cycle question if I'm not a newbie?

[Jeepguy242]

i have had my current tank set up for over 15 years in my old house,

now we bought a new house and i wanted a new tank.

the plan was to use some dry rock that has been acid washed, bleached, then stored dry in a rubbermaid trash can in my shed. i was also going to use about 20 - 25 pounds of live rock from the old tank which is currently up and running and has no problems other than an occasional spot of algae.

i got the ne


w tank set up last weekend.
added the rock 2 days ago after cementing them with e-marco 400 and letting them cure for 3 days

i added a bottle of API Quick start when i put the rocks in 2 days ago

today (8 minutes ago ) i tested for ammonia because i was sure there would be some die off or stuff on the rock that did not get rinsed off down in the nooks and crannies

so the test results were:
ammonia - 0

so just for grins i tested nitrate...

looks to me like they are showing at 2 !?!?!?!?!?

is this possible after 2 days?

i haven't added any live rock from my other tank yet... i was planning on that this weekend and then next weekend testing to see if i could start bringing fish and then corals after that...

i have about 6 fish in a 125 gallon so the bioload is light and the corals are a couple of acros some zoas, and some chalices, a hammer, and a torch, and a trumpet

also my anemone


i know slow is good but it looks like if i have nitrates that i should be cycled? this seems really fast.

tank is a red sea reefer 350 and i started it with this old dry rock and 2 new bags of caribe sea live sand...

what am i missing here?

why did this happen this fast?

is it possible that this is a false cycle?



Build thread:

Build Thread - New house new tank build, my new Red Sea Reefer 350 deluxe

Moved in to a new house, and decided it was time for out with the old, I'm taking a 125 gallon tank i have had for 15 years and downsizing to a reefer 350. new rock scape also. i will be using rocks that i had from my tank and some friends tanks that have been dry for 5 to 6 years, rocks...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Quietman]

So no, you can't ask a cycling question...turn in your reefer card to the proper authorities.

Sure it's possible...it's happened right? Rock was wet so likely still processing...see if nitrates keep coming up as you expect with food and such. Sounds like you got a mostly cycled tank there with the live rock.

 

[NeonRabbit221B]

I wouldn't trust that it was cycled already after 2 days. I would suspect a false cycle unless you know that ammonia was present and was processed in that two days.
Could you add an ammonia source, measure and retest to be sure?

 

[brandon429]

25 pounds of established live rock will handle all reefing fish bioloads, you are done and never had to cycle in the first place. the abilities of the ready portion of this tank will mask the inabilities of the new rock, testing won't apply or reflect much at all.

All you do is reef, expect some curing work with the new rocks/guiding algae but if 25 pounds of live rock is in your water circulation this is a skip cycle tank, like all reefs at a macna convention.

have you ever noticed that they are able to start 500 reefs all on the same date at marine conventions


they do what you did.

 

[motortrendz]

No your not allowed to ask, too much time in, you should know better... lolol. Sorry had to!


Only way to truly test is add ammonia to where its readable on the text kit. And test again in 24 hours. If its brought back down to zero on it's own your good. If not then you basically just kicked off the process.

 

[brandon429]

but we shouldnt add ammonia to live rock, it burns live rock animals. We'd just reef, knowing the recent history of the rocks and that they cannot uncycle. you could dose with ammonia, but we can verify other ways and totally save the burning too if wanted. no bacteria doubt is allowed in this post based on known history, and number of pounds of surface area we test only when there's doubt. -not a popular opinion agreed-


when we move tanks home to home in the sand rinse thread, which is taking reefs apart and moving them without recycles or to marine conventions, we never test for a single param under the assumption that most of today's ammonia tests can't read a true zero anyway. there are telltale signs of a skip cycle tank, 25 pounds of live rock is all verification required ~

at marine conventions, they move over live rock and animals and all start by friday since it will not vary tank to tank. the most important part of a tank transfer is not moving cloudy waste pent up in rocks or sand into the new tank. if you move clean materials it will be a skip cycle reef anywhere live rock goes.

 

[DeniseAndy]

I have set up my 40g and 20g with only live rock and everything else brand new. No issues, no cycle. Can immediately add animals. I do this often with pico tanks too. If I had enough live rock for a larger system, I also would not hesitate as long as you are adding occupants of even bioload (meaning, do not use 25lbs of live rock in 1000g system and add 10 full grown tangs- be reasonable).

 

[NeonRabbit221B]

but we shouldnt add ammonia to live rock, it burns live rock animals. We'd just reef, knowing the recent history of the rocks and that they cannot uncycle. you could dose with ammonia, but we can verify other ways and totally save the burning too if wanted. no bacteria doubt is allowed in this post based on known history, and number of pounds of surface area.


when we move tanks home to home in the sand rinse thread, which is taking reefs apart and moving them without recycles, we never test for a single param under the assumption that most of today's ammonia tests can't read a true zero. there are telltale signs of a skip cycle tank, 25 pounds of live rock is all verification required yep.

Unless I am missing something from the first post he put rock that was cleaned and stored in a tote (essentially dry rock) in a brute and let it cure for a few days. No ammonia source was added. The rock wasn't live rock but previously live rock.

 

[brandon429]

*i was also going to use about 20 - 25 pounds of live rock from the old tank which is currently up and running and has no problems other than an occasional spot of algae.*

hey good call
thought it was already in, he's considering it.

all that applies once the live rock is added, but his algae also proves the new rock is cycled. can't have benthic growths if nitrifiers are lacking. in 100% of cases, any substrate that has been submerged long enough to allow benthic attachment (algae) is certifiably cycled.


you could test with ammonia to prove~ as mentioned above by MotorT, I thought it was already live included.

watch for movement of ammonia down, zero not required.

 

[Gareth elliott]

All cycle questions must be asked in the past tense and through transcribing to another reefer, who then transcribes to a random person they find at a denny’s. This person must be the one who types the question.

Its on line 15,321 of the reefing etiquette rules.

Agree above with others experience with live rock.

 

[Jeepguy242]

there is no algae in the dry rock, the live has not been added yet, i am adding it this weekend

i just put the dry rock in the tank after the water was at 1.024 sg and added quick start

 

[brandon429]

that quick start is 1 day cycling goodies, should be gtg and the test of ammonia oxidation would agree I bet

 

[Jeepguy242]

this is the established 125 that the other rock is coming from

 

[brandon429]

perfect, and amazing tank there. when you move the rocks just swish them in buckets of drained off tank water to eject all the associated detritus, then they'll move over fine.

they'd most likely move fine without the swish; this is just to ensure transfer safety as only detritus is the risk when moving substrates and its also so that you import less cyano fuel into a tank with not much coralline, those are busier tanks requiring surface management for algae directly so they dont produce invasions that wreck the coral.

 

[schuby]

Personally, when I got back in the hobby last year and started a new tank with dry rock, I added 2ppm of ammonia before adding the nitrifying bacteria from Dr Tim. This is what was specified on the instructions. I was able to monitor and see the ammonia & nitrite decrease over several days, while the nitrate increased. Afterwards, I was confident the bacteria population was sufficient to add fish

 

[Dbichler]

I wouldnt add ammonia if your transfering the live rock you would only be adding nitrates essentially. The rock is already capable of handling your bioload.

 

[motortrendz]

but we shouldnt add ammonia to live rock, it burns live rock animals. We'd just reef, knowing the recent history of the rocks and that they cannot uncycle. you could dose with ammonia, but we can verify other ways and totally save the burning too if wanted. no bacteria doubt is allowed in this post based on known history, and number of pounds of surface area we test only when there's doubt. -not a popular opinion agreed-


when we move tanks home to home in the sand rinse thread, which is taking reefs apart and moving them without recycles or to marine conventions, we never test for a single param under the assumption that most of today's ammonia tests can't read a true zero anyway. there are telltale signs of a skip cycle tank, 25 pounds of live rock is all verification required ~

at marine conventions, they move over live rock and animals and all start by friday since it will not vary tank to tank. the most important part of a tank transfer is not moving cloudy waste pent up in rocks or sand into the new tank. if you move clean materials it will be a skip cycle reef anywhere live rock goes.

I agree with this completely.

 

[brandon429]

Ive been on such a rant about macna conventions lately.

it barely dawned on me ten months ago somehow those guys have managed to wrangle every cycle into consistency when cash transfer is on the line for twenty years straight no fails. i then think about all current forum cycle posts that when sampled really range in allowed start dates 1 to day 120 in some cases and bam, instant concept conflict worth dissecting.

they make a nice meter to use for updated cycling rules, they make justification for it. were it not for a warehouse full of exacting, controlled cyclers or skip cyclers, breaking away from forum convention could cost one major street cred and in some forums it will get you a ban. I can name three lol


*at least three readers are thinking: but macna convention reefs are short term*
no they're not. they run as long as they're left standing, true skip cycle science does not fail it works like clockword. a failed cycle tank cannot support bioload and it will be dead and cloudy the next day, put a grip of snails in an uncycled nano for a test and report back. a short cycle is no better seated than a 40 day one; surface area is either active or its not. there is no half cycling. there is start cycling, and then there is the instant it can support bioload relative to its surface area, the time frame chosen by boosters like totally live rock or bottle bac which take a day or two to seat.

the hallmark of a closed cycle is no water change can undo ammonia control

Nitrite and nitrate doesn't matter, though I'm aware online videos state they matter. We've found new ways.

here is a skip cycle instant nano, produced with zero delay, would have made a macna start date on time.

The ‘Instant Nano Reef’ is Doing Great after Three Months in the Studio | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog

When the build out of the Reef Builders Studio first began, I thought it was fitting and necessary to go ahead and get one token reef tank in there as soon as possible. Since all the big aquariums…

reefbuilders.com

we can track it to see if skipped cycles become unstable. he took live rock from one tank and moved it into another. WHY doesnt any cycling article Ive ever read or been linked to in reefing give this option>>>>>>>>they all post the run of the mill 30 day cycle chart. no customization means they're not paying attention to the question or acknowledging that pre existing bac doesnt need our darn help lol.

every cycle reference we can find in the hobby is lacking accuracy because they're not updated to be faster than the standard 30 day cycling chart from 1957 and they wont tell us how to make all ammonia testing be consistent. all cycling articles Ive read assumes we measure free ammonia correctly as a group

 

[Aqua Man]

The 2 bags of live sand and bottle of quick start. Seems like enough to get a cycle going.