Hey guys, regarding my research with corallivore butterflies...

[livinlifeinBKK]

Hey guys, I live in Bangkok and these species really aren't that difficult to find here usually...besides the challenge of getting them to eat aquarium foods (which has been achieved) what are some of the specific goals we are trying to reach or information we're trying to obtain? In other words, after they'll eat what we want and live for a little while, is it mission complete?...I'm just particularly interested in butterflyfish for the same reason I love sun corals so much-- it's just a personal interest Ive always had. Because I'm naturally interested in them I'd like to research all about them to uncover new information about them and their unique husbandry requirements...I guess what I'm trying to figure out here is just what information are we lacking? To research something effectively it's important to start with a question that can hopefully be answered through said research. Can you guys think of any specific research topics?

 

[MnFish1]

Hey guys, I live in Bangkok and these species really aren't that difficult to find here usually...besides the challenge of getting them to eat aquarium foods (which has been achieved) what are some of the specific goals we are trying to reach or information we're trying to obtain? In other words, after they'll eat what we want and live for a little while, is it mission complete?...I'm just particularly interested in butterflyfish for the same reason I love sun corals so much-- it's just a personal interest Ive always had. Because I'm naturally interested in them I'd like to research all about them to uncover new information about them and their unique husbandry requirements...I guess what I'm trying to figure out here is just what information are we lacking? To research something effectively it's important to start with a question that can hopefully be answered through said research. Can you guys think of any specific research topics?

That would need some thinking - but - when you decide to do it or several - make sure that you post in the 'Experiment and research' forum - right next to the Chemistry forum. Good luck.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

Hey guys, I live in Bangkok and these species really aren't that difficult to find here usually...besides the challenge of getting them to eat aquarium foods (which has been achieved) what are some of the specific goals we are trying to reach or information we're trying to obtain? In other words, after they'll eat what we want and live for a little while, is it mission complete?...I'm just particularly interested in butterflyfish for the same reason I love sun corals so much-- it's just a personal interest Ive always had. Because I'm naturally interested in them I'd like to research all about them to uncover new information about them and their unique husbandry requirements...I guess what I'm trying to figure out here is just what information are we lacking? To research something effectively it's important to start with a question that can hopefully be answered through said research. Can you guys think of any specific research topics?

I know most corallivorous butterflyfish don’t live particularly long lives in home aquaria (I’ve heard typically 1-2, occasionally 3 years), so I’d be interested to find out if they die so fast because of a lack of certain necessary nutrients in their aquarium diets, or if it’s because of something else. Basically, how can we sustain them long-term in aquaria would be the question here. (If it is diet related, then the corallivorous butterflyfish in the Mediterranean sea would be a good place to look to try and figure out a better long term diet, as the corals they typically eat don’t grow there, and they have to be eating something to live there.)

Also, figuring out how to captive breed a species is always a good step (though looking at how similar species were bred on Rising Tide’s site, this might require a massive tank - it could be they need the extra space, it could the water parameters are more stable, or it could just be chance that they spawned much more frequently and successfully in the larger tank, I’m not sure).

Anyway, they’re beautiful fish, and I’m glad to see someone actively looking to further our husbandry knowledge of them. Good luck!

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

I know most corallivorous butterflyfish don’t live particularly long lives in home aquaria (I’ve heard typically 1-2, occasionally 3 years), so I’d be interested to find out if they die so fast because of a lack of certain necessary nutrients in their aquarium diets, or if it’s because of something else. Basically, how can we sustain them long-term in aquaria would be the question here. (If it is diet related, then the corallivorous butterflyfish in the Mediterranean sea would be a good place to look to try and figure out a better long term diet, as the corals they typically eat don’t grow there, and they have to be eating something to live there.)

Also, figuring out how to captive breed a species is always a good step (though looking at how similar species were bred on Rising Tide’s site, this might require a massive tank - it could be they need the extra space, it could the water parameters are more stable, or it could just be chance that they spawned much more frequently and successfully in the larger tank, I’m not sure).

Anyway, they’re beautiful fish, and I’m glad to see someone actively looking to further our husbandry knowledge of them. Good luck!

Thanks! Many corallivore butterflies (like the one you're referring to in the Mediterranean Sea aren't actually obligate corallivores and will take other specific foods like certain worms living on the reef etc., There are a dozen or so though that eat exclusively coral in the wild though which are much trickier and I agree there could possibly be some natural substance in their preferred coral species that they require long term...as for breeding, that would be a dream but at this time I simply don't have the resources for a project like that...thanks for the ideas!

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

I really wish I had some line of credit or funding of any kind to carry out my research because to do it correctly could take a little money...

 

[Snoopy 67]

Matt Petersen wrote an article for Coral magazine on this very subject.
It would be worth searching for it.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

I've actually been in close contact with Matt Pederson for the pasy several days...I'm continuing high research @Snoopy 67

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

I've actually been in close contact with Matt Pederson for the pasy several days...I'm continuing high research @Snoopy 67

Matt Petersen wrote an article for Coral magazine on this very subject.
It would be worth searching for it.

Great article - taught me a lot that I didn’t know. (The article I’d seen on the Mediterranean butterflyfish was outdated, and this was a good update for me - I’ll have to do a little more research to see what else we’ve figured out in recent years.)

Out of curiosity, did he ever figure out what the mouth rot and red lesions he mentioned in his article were or how to treat them?

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

Great article - taught me a lot that I didn’t know. (The article I’d seen on the Mediterranean butterflyfish was outdated, and this was a good update for me - I’ll have to do a little more research to see what else we’ve figured out in recent years.)

Out of curiosity, did he ever figure out what the mouth rot and red lesions he mentioned in his article were or how to treat them?

I asked about that too...they were just severe bacterial infections...he said it was so bad that it got to the point where even if it was completely cured most of the fish's mouth would've been gone....it couldn't eat I don't believe so it died

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

I have a feeling that there's something in the coral mucus that these fish need in order to combat the strange bacterial infections that are so problematic...I think maybe some part of their slime coat microbiome incorporates whatever it is they're getting from the coral mucus to protect them

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

I have a feeling that there's something in the coral mucus that these fish need in order to combat the strange bacterial infections that are so problematic...I think maybe some part of their slime coat microbiome incorporates whatever it is they're getting from the coral mucus to protect them

That sounds plausible to me. Slightly different but related, I know Paul B shared in a different thread about ich/velvet management a scientific article about how the mucus produced by fish is used to produce anti-parasitic immunity in the fish (he explained it as basically parasites eaten by the fish go through their "head kidney" and their body starts producing stuff in their mucus to protect against the parasites), so it wouldn't surprise me if there was something in the mucus of corals that provided a similar defense.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

That sounds plausible to me. Slightly different but related, I know Paul B shared in a different thread about ich/velvet management a scientific article about how the mucus produced by fish is used to produce anti-parasitic immunity in the fish (he explained it as basically parasites eaten by the fish go through their "head kidney" and their body starts producing stuff in their mucus to protect against the parasites), so it wouldn't surprise me if there was something in the mucus of corals that provided a similar defense.

I wonder if anyone has ever compared the slime coat microbiota of an individual of one of these species before its weaned onto traditional aquarium foods vs. an individual that has been in captivity eating traditional foods for whatever period of time to see if there are any significant changes that took place and what the changes are...a change in diet would definitely change the microbiome of the fish on the inside and outside