High ammonia ppm after beginning of cycle . Pp

[OcReefer714]

Hey guys, I appreciate in advance and info that can help me with this. I’m doing a fishless cycle using Dr. Tim’s ammonia chloride and PMS Probio.

I have a 65 gallon tank but after rock and sand being put in the tank it only took about 40 or so gallons. With that being said yesterday evening I put in 5ml of ammonia chloride and 55ml of PNS Probio to kick off the cycle . Today when I got home I tested and got readings of 8ppm ammonia it looks like, I’ve attached the image to this post so you all can see this . I am using the API ammonia test kit. Is this regular to have this high of ammonia ppm even though it is only a day in and just being worrisome or do I need to do something to correct this sooner than later?

Thank you all in advance again for any Information or help that can be provided towards my question.

 

[FoolishWizard]

I was told to add the pns probio and the ammonia chloride at the same time and then every few days add more pns , this is all per my local fish store.

Interesting... I usually cycle with Dr. Tims One and Only... Which you dump into the tank then add ammonia chloride every few days if needed.

 

[brandon429]

All the stuff you added to cycle the tank would be if it was flipped in ratio: mostly dry rock

it’s not that

 

[bushdoc]

Just read manufacturer’s description of PNS probio and it seem that they recommend it for mature reef as a coral food, not to cycle the tank.

 

[Rmckoy]

Just read manufacturer’s description of PNS probio and it seem that they recommend it for mature reef as a coral food, not to cycle the tank.

This explains the extremely high ammonia .
but if the tank was cycled as Brandon claims wouldn’t it have the ability to process a little ammonia input ?

 

[blecki]

A little yes, but op obviously dosed more than the bioload the rock had been in or he wouldn't have it showing up on the test. Also we have no idea how long that rock was cooking before it was sold. It could have been stuck in there ten minutes before he walked in the store, or been sitting in it's own system devoid of an ammonia source, bacteria slowly canibalizing and starving to death. Nitrifying bacteria is tough but it's not invincible.

Also I'm reading that more like 2ppm but it's an API kit so who knows, it could all be ammonium and be completely harmless, it could actually be 0, it could be a 16ppm...

 

[Rmckoy]

A little yes, but op obviously dosed more than the bioload the rock had been in or he wouldn't have it showing up on the test. Also we have no idea how long that rock was cooking before it was sold. It could have been stuck in there ten minutes before he walked in the store, or been sitting in it's own system devoid of an ammonia source, bacteria slowly canibalizing and starving to death. Nitrifying bacteria is tough but it's not invincible.

Also I'm reading that more like 2ppm but it's an API kit so who knows, it could all be ammonium and be completely harmless, it could actually be 0, it could be a 16ppm...

This is the part I see as a scam .
wet rocks in containers of saltwater are sold as live but … they are essentially just wet rocks in water with no bacteria . And exactly what I was questioning .
The rocks do look like life rock in the pictures. .
Artificial algae compared to actual live rock

 

[Dan_P]

Hey guys, I appreciate in advance and info that can help me with this. I’m doing a fishless cycle using Dr. Tim’s ammonia chloride and PMS Probio.

I have a 65 gallon tank but after rock and sand being put in the tank it only took about 40 or so gallons. With that being said yesterday evening I put in 5ml of ammonia chloride and 55ml of PNS Probio to kick off the cycle . Today when I got home I tested and got readings of 8ppm ammonia it looks like, I’ve attached the image to this post so you all can see this . I am using the API ammonia test kit. Is this regular to have this high of ammonia ppm even though it is only a day in and just being worrisome or do I need to do something to correct this sooner than later?

Thank you all in advance again for any Information or help that can be provided towards my question.

I think the replies to your post captured what happened. Too much ammonium chloride was added and the wrong bottled bacteria was used.

You can 1) do nothing and wait, 2) add nitrifying bacteria, or, 3) do a big water change to bring down the ammonia and then add nitrifying bacteria, there is no good reason to start an aquarium with a boatload of nitrite and nitrate.

 

[OcReefer714]

Update ~
Came home today and tested again around almost exactly 24 hrs later and my ammonia levels came significantly down . At first I thought maybe I got a faulty test so I took two just to be safe . It looks to me as the bacteria is eating up the ammonia at a rapid pace and I may be okay after all. I posted the two test results down below for viewing.

Side note~
I went to my LFS today because Wednesday is their stock day and I wanted to see what they got in . I spoke with the owner and he said that is all normal and part of the cycle process and he Would actually wait unit My ammonia levels got to 0 ppm and them redose on more time with ammoni and bacteria both , wait until it levels out too 0ppm for ammonia and nitrite again and then stock the tank . Although he didn’t say it was mandatory he said it’s highly recommended just to be safe . Not sure I want to go that route , I don’t want to run into the same issue again .

 

[Rmckoy]

Update ~
Came home today and tested again around almost exactly 24 hrs later and my ammonia levels came significantly down . At first I thought maybe I got a faulty test so I took two just to be safe . It looks to me as the bacteria is eating up the ammonia at a rapid pace and I may be okay after all. I posted the two test results down below for viewing.

Side note~
I went to my LFS today because Wednesday is their stock day and I wanted to see what they got in . I spoke with the owner and he said that is all normal and part of the cycle process and he Would actually wait unit My ammonia levels got to 0 ppm and them redose on more time with ammoni and bacteria both , wait until it levels out too 0ppm for ammonia and nitrite again and then stock the tank . Although he didn’t say it was mandatory he said it’s highly recommended just to be safe . Not sure I want to go that route , I don’t want to run into the same issue again .

Ideally the reason for dosing again after it’s complete is to guarantee test result didn’t give false readings .
The system should process ammonia in 24hr period .
think about it .. as fish breath , pee , eat ,
Everything produced waste ( ammonia )
Which in a cycled system should never read above 0ppm

 

[OcReefer714]

Ideally the reason for dosing again after it’s complete is to guarantee test result didn’t give false readings .
The system should process ammonia in 24hr period .
think about it .. as fish breath , pee , eat ,
Everything produced waste ( ammonia )
Which in a cycled system should never read above 0ppm

Understood, thank you for that information ! With that being said , I will test again tomorrow and if my ammonia level is at 0ppm I will re dose with ammonia and bacteria again and wait to it levels out to 0 and then go get my first fish and maybe a piece of coral or two to throw in! I’m thinking 2 clowns and as far as coral goes I was debating between green star polyps, bubble coral, and euphyllia… however I would ideally like to put a bubbletip anemone in their with the clowns for them specifically.

 

[Rmckoy]

Understood, thank you for that information ! With that being said , I will test again tomorrow and if my ammonia level is at 0ppm I will re dose with ammonia and bacteria again and wait to it levels out to 0 and then go get my first fish and maybe a piece of coral or two to throw in! I’m thinking 2 clowns and as far as coral goes I was debating between green star polyps, bubble coral, and euphyllia… however I would ideally like to put a bubbletip anemone in their with the clowns for them specifically.

Dosing to cycle has always seamed like a huge inconvenience .
I have always just used raw shrimp , dropped it on and forgot about it .
When I tested zero ammonia and high nitrates my cycle was complete .
large water change and start adding fish .

 

[Spare time]

PNS probio isn't their cycling bottle. That would be PNS substrate sauce. I have never heard of anyone cycling with pns probio. Maybe it works?

 

[brandon429]

There are no lfs that trick customers and mark live rock that has only been sitting in the tank ten minutes.

live rock at a pet store is live rock, without fail


There is no degree of leap reefers, peers in forums, won’t make to validate non digital test kits.

that shows the cycle is done above, as stated, known from the live rock origin.

it’s not that the ammonia came down, it’s that it came to thousandths ppm on a seneye if hooked to this system and that above is what api reads in five year old cycled tanks that run thousandths ppm on a seneye, this was a skip cycle setup. It didn’t take actually 24 hours to drop that low, it just did for api. Likely three hours after initial dosing, depending on water currents and circulation speed if this was a seneye cycle.

so now that we know the cycle is done and you can carry fish, you shouldn’t add them, because that brings disease into the tank. Must read the stickies in the disease forum and implement those, quarantine and fallow, before stocking.

if you skip that part due to can’t wait, the common starter mode, your fish will be fine for about eight months

(8 month prediction mark comes from reading every help thread on page one of the disease forum every day it runs, selecting find all posts by each entrant, discerning the age of their tank based on their first posts here, and seeing the majority of help thread entrants are with tanks under eight months old + skipped preps)

your tank can process fish waste we knew, but it can’t fight off fish disease owing to the trends you can see here

Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis

A forum for discussing treatment and diagnosing saltwater reef fish.

www.reef2reef.com

 

[brandon429]

In summary, continuing with the skip cycle thread linked above in post #20, old cycling science 100% always doubts what bacteria can do and leads us to ignoring fish disease preps and sells us cycle reinforcements we don’t need.

wet rock from a pet store doesnt need redundant cycling, nor bottle bac, nor ammonia, nor extra bottles of bac, that’s an unintentional trick the pet store did here because no pet store employees practice updated cycling science. When you set the tank up, it was cycled

choosing to wait until you’ve stocked the tank with non fish items, then fallow it at the end of complete stocking without any fish, then adding in only quarantined fish, is the hard part and that’s why the disease forum is the busiest forum on this entire site ten times over each day. We use ready cycles too quickly. Ammonia control isn’t the issue, we can see, it’s disease which is independent to mode of cycling.

 

[blecki]

This is the part I see as a scam .

100% agree. "Live rock" is covered in life. Sponges, algae, and critters. But most stores just have rock sitting in a holding tank. Wet rock is always a gamble.

 

[brandon429]

It’s never a gamble, because nobody can link a single thread of it not working as stated, and no it doesn’t always have sponges. Uncured ocean rock or 1% of tank live rock has sponges

This is 100 pounds of skip cycle live rock, purple, with no sponges, at my pet store in Austin (the one I shop at)


that doubt you’re painting in live rock ability is old cycling science. You’re relaying something youve heard, but never seen or can post an example of

(I too search for examples of failed skip cycles)

OCReefer

read this thread below to see what order to build your tank if you want the fish to live longer than eight months -

Has anyone done coral/inverts only and no fish at first?

Fish seem to be the main cause of disruption in a display tank, given the current circumstances in the hobby with pests (ich, velvet, parasites, etc.). I have been in this hobby for 18 years, and the amount of pests that are showing up lately is much more (could also be the fact that we have...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[blecki]

live rock at a pet store is live rock, without fail

Quite a bold claim.

 

[Rmckoy]

Quite a bold claim.

Live rock being the key word

 

[Rmckoy]

It’s never a gamble, because you/anybody can’t link a single thread of it not working as stated, and no it doesn’t have sponges. Uncured ocean rock or 1% of tank live rock has sponges

This is 100 pounds of skip cycle live rock, purple, with no sponges, at my pet store in Austin (the one I shop at)


that doubt you’re painting in live rock ability is old cycling science. You’re relaying something youve heard, but never seen or can post an example of

OCReefer

read this thread below to see what order to build your tank if you want the fish to live longer than eight months -

Has anyone done coral/inverts only and no fish at first?

Fish seem to be the main cause of disruption in a display tank, given the current circumstances in the hobby with pests (ich, velvet, parasites, etc.). I have been in this hobby for 18 years, and the amount of pests that are showing up lately is much more (could also be the fact that we have...

www.reef2reef.com

Please explain the difference between live rock and life rock ?
Liferock looks exactly the same colour . And can be wet …..
doesn’t necessarily mean it’s live as soon as it’s added to water .

 

[brandon429]

For fair fun, I know it’s a bold claim

try and link two examples from the last five years, it’s an exercise to show how powerful wet cured rock transfers are

of the thousands of examples of cycling online, millions, find two live rock skip cycle transfers pet store to home where it didn’t work and the the whole tank crashed


not where two fish that didn’t get disease preps or acclimation correctly applied died, where a whole tank crashed and went gray overnite due to live rock transfers

not examples of tank moves where they didn’t rinse sand, home to home tank moves with old sand, but live rock transfers from pet store to home

Ive been searching for examples longer than five years

inability to find one begets this surety

if you can’t link just two, my claim isn’t bold it’s practiced