High ammonia ppm after beginning of cycle . Pp

[OcReefer714]

Hey guys, I appreciate in advance and info that can help me with this. I’m doing a fishless cycle using Dr. Tim’s ammonia chloride and PMS Probio.

I have a 65 gallon tank but after rock and sand being put in the tank it only took about 40 or so gallons. With that being said yesterday evening I put in 5ml of ammonia chloride and 55ml of PNS Probio to kick off the cycle . Today when I got home I tested and got readings of 8ppm ammonia it looks like, I’ve attached the image to this post so you all can see this . I am using the API ammonia test kit. Is this regular to have this high of ammonia ppm even though it is only a day in and just being worrisome or do I need to do something to correct this sooner than later?

Thank you all in advance again for any Information or help that can be provided towards my question.

 

[OcReefer714]

It’s never a gamble, because you/anybody can’t link a single thread of it not working as stated, and no it doesn’t have sponges. Uncured ocean rock or 1% of tank live rock has sponges

This is 100 pounds of skip cycle live rock, purple, with no sponges, at my pet store in Austin (the one I shop at)


that doubt you’re painting in live rock ability is old cycling science. You’re relaying something youve heard, but never seen or can post an example of

OCReefer

read this thread below to see what order to build your tank if you want the fish to live longer than eight months -

Has anyone done coral/inverts only and no fish at first?

Fish seem to be the main cause of disruption in a display tank, given the current circumstances in the hobby with pests (ich, velvet, parasites, etc.). I have been in this hobby for 18 years, and the amount of pests that are showing up lately is much more (could also be the fact that we have...

www.reef2reef.com

Just read this entire thread , interesting way at looking at it and definitely a viable solution to avoid any pests or diseases invading your tank.

Personally I dont know too much about the hobby as only being four day into this, definitely a lot to take in . Also definitely wasn’t the way anyone else has explained the best process either to start the tank. Without knowing to much about coral or exactly all the coral I want in my tank and my “final stage” (I know it’s never truly final) I find it would be hard to take up this process rather than possibly add my coral and fallow for a month or so and then add the qt fish slowly , would this be a reasonable mediation between the two ?

I have not read the other thread of diseases yet.

 

[Rmckoy]

Just read this entire thread , interesting way at looking at it and definitely a viable solution to avoid any pests or diseases invading your tank.

Personally I dont know too much about the hobby as only being four day into this, definitely a lot to take in . Also definitely wasn’t the way anyone else has explained the best process either to start the tank. Without knowing to much about coral or exactly all the coral I want in my tank and my “final stage” (I know it’s never truly final) I find it would be hard to take up this process rather than possibly add my coral and fallow for a month or so and then add the qt fish slowly , would this be a reasonable mediation between the two ?

I have not read the other thread of diseases yet.

You will find many different conflicting ways to accomplish the same end goal .
each on here will have their way . But in the end …..
it’s your tank , your investment . Be responsible to do your research .
find one user that has a system that aligns with your end goal and use them as sort of a Mentor
Feel free to ask them questions for how they build their system , and how they do their maintenance .

a few well known members here have amazing advice and we’re all here to help and advise

 

[Rmckoy]

That being said …. Try to have some sort of plan as to what you want to stock and build your setup with that in mind .

 

[brandon429]

You have waded into a bramble of nerds heh

we don’t know who is right or wrong, there are only patterns and posts to weigh

 

[Kenneth Wingerter]

PNS probio isn't their cycling bottle. That would be PNS substrate sauce. I have never heard of anyone cycling with pns probio. Maybe it works?

Yup. PNS ProBio would work, albeit more slowly. They actually both contain the same strain of Rhodopseudomonas palustris, with the difference being that the cultures contained in Substrate Sauce are grown in saltwater (Sauce also contains a second, similar microbe, Rhodospirillum rubrum, but that's more just to broaden the range of conditioning a bit). Also, unlike ProBio, the growth medium in Sauce contains ammonium, which makes the cells epigenetically adapted to utilize an inorganic source of nitrogen (which is more appropriate for a cycling application where NH4 is elevated). What these two things mean together is that Sauce is a little faster at cycling and conditioning a system (the lag phase is usually shortened by 3 or 4 days).

These purple non-sulfur bacteria (PNSB) play a role in nitrogen cycling. They are all diazotrophs (nitrogen fixers). They remove ammonia, nitrite and nitrate through assimilation. Rhodopseudomonas additionally removes nitrate via denitrification (an extremely desirable trait nearer the end of the cycle). However, it should be noted that PNSB do not perform nitrification (in other words, they do not oxidize ammonia>nitrite and nitrite>nitrate). For that reason, it could be said that PNSB work in tandem with nitrifiers. I could go on with other differences (in contrast to nitrifiers, PNSB are facultatively anaerobic, heterotrophic, have a planktonic stage in their lifestyle and so export nitrogen via skimming, etc.), but the main idea is that they contribute to ecological diversity in a way that promotes nitrogen cycling.

Substrate Sauce is specially formulated with this in mind (particularly for saltwater systems); ProBio works in the same way, but just takes longer to 'wake up' and enter log growth phase. In short, you can save a few bucks on ProBio, but it'll take a few days longer to start working (which doesn't matter in most cases as ProBio is mainly used as a live food).

 

[MnFish1]

Hey guys, I appreciate in advance and info that can help me with this. I’m doing a fishless cycle using Dr. Tim’s ammonia chloride and PMS Probio.

I have a 65 gallon tank but after rock and sand being put in the tank it only took about 40 or so gallons. With that being said yesterday evening I put in 5ml of ammonia chloride and 55ml of PNS Probio to kick off the cycle . Today when I got home I tested and got readings of 8ppm ammonia it looks like, I’ve attached the image to this post so you all can see this . I am using the API ammonia test kit. Is this regular to have this high of ammonia ppm even though it is only a day in and just being worrisome or do I need to do something to correct this sooner than later?

Thank you all in advance again for any Information or help that can be provided towards my question.

The problem is that the measurements using the Dr. Tims bottle (I assume you did?) - often result in higher levels depending on tank volume. If you measured out the amount of ammonia using a syringe, etc - it's possible your volume was less than you thought. The first picture to me - shows an ammonia >8 the second - lying flat suggests an error - the test should be read sitting upright - as compared to lying down. The semi unfortunate news is that the >8 ppm ammonia can cause nitrifies to go dormant/die - which means you might need to add more bacteria once the live is <4. Also double check your bacteria

 

[MnFish1]

Please explain the difference between live rock and life rock ?
Liferock looks exactly the same colour . And can be wet …..
doesn’t necessarily mean it’s live as soon as it’s added to water .

Agree - just because some rock is wet in a pet store - does not mean it can take the load of an aquarium. UNLESS one measures the ammonia level in the LFS tank - and it's zero. Many times - the ammonia in LFS live rock is >0. EDIT - and as already shown with my examples in the experiments I did - Just having live rock does not mean if moved to another tank (unless its all the live rock - and the bioload remains the same) - is no guarantee that the new load will be supported by the old rock (or part of the old rock)

 

[Rmckoy]

Agree - just because some rock is wet in a pet store - does not mean it can take the load of an aquarium. UNLESS one measures the ammonia level in the LFS tank - and it's zero. Many times - the ammonia in LFS live rock is >0

Thank you !!!
I wanted to say this exact thing but we already have conflicting advice stating otherwise

 

[MnFish1]

Thank you !!!
I wanted to say this exact thing but we already have conflicting advice stating otherwise

As I always say - consider the source. For example that 'live rock' in the pet store could have been dry 2 weeks prior. IMHO - there are few absolutes in this hobby - except there are no absolutes.

 

[Rmckoy]

As I always say - consider the source. For example that 'live rock' in the pet store could have been dry 2 weeks prior. IMHO - there are few absolutes in this hobby - except there are no absolutes.

I bought a few rocks listed as live and when I asked if they were wet or live he said “ the owner asked us to sell it as live at around $15/lb Canadian .
Knowing it wasn’t live but I wanted a few more rocks to add to my well established system .

the only reason I am commenting is there is a difference …
We can say if it’s wet it has to be live and worthy of being named as cycled or skip cycled due to being live rock .

 

[Rmckoy]

I bought a few rocks listed as live and when I asked if they were wet or live he said “ the owner asked us to sell it as live at around $15/lb Canadian .
Knowing it wasn’t live but I wanted a few more rocks to add to my well established system .

the only reason I am commenting is there is a difference …
We can say if it’s wet it has to be live and worthy of being named as cycled or skip cycled due to being live rock .

The only way it could be live by theory is if the he employees sneak to the basement and urinate in the holding tanks . Even that could be very hard to believe

 

[OcReefer714]

The problem is that the measurements using the Dr. Tims bottle (I assume you did?) - often result in higher levels depending on tank volume. If you measured out the amount of ammonia using a syringe, etc - it's possible your volume was less than you thought. The first picture to me - shows an ammonia >8 the second - lying flat suggests an error - the test should be read sitting upright - as compared to lying down. The semi unfortunate news is that the >8 ppm ammonia can cause nitrifies to go dormant/die - which means you might need to add more bacteria once the live is <4. Also double check your bacteria

So I did not go off the bottles measurements for that reason as directed by my LFS. I instead only put 5 ml . Since then I have added more bac and it went down . As of Saturday my tank completed cycle and both ammonia and nitrites have been testing 0ppm . I have added my first fish and a nem . Thank you for your help!

 

[Rmckoy]

So I did not go off the bottles measurements for that reason as directed by my LFS. I instead only put 5 ml . Since then I have added more bac and it went down . As of Saturday my tank completed cycle and both ammonia and nitrites have been testing 0ppm . I have added my first fish and a nem . Thank you for your help!

Oh no …
I guess you missed the part about anemones should not be added to brand new freshly cycled tanks ?
Fingers crossed you can keep parameters stable . And #1 you have guards over your power heads .

 

[Rmckoy]

What were you getting for nitrates ?
I assumed the tank was cycled but from the last time I read anything we talked test results

 

[OcReefer714]

Oh no …
I guess you missed the part about anemones should not be added to brand new freshly cycled tanks ?
Fingers crossed you can keep parameters stable . And #1 you have guards over your power heads .

Yeah I don’t think I was told and my LFS didn’t say anything about it , in fact they were happy to sell it to me. I will message you privately about parameters .

 

[OcReefer714]

What were you getting for nitrates ?
I assumed the tank was cycled but from the last time I read anything we talked test results

Last I checked they were at 0 ppm and when I went to go get my fish and my nem I took a sample and they tested and said my cycle was done .

 

[MnFish1]

Last I checked they were at 0 ppm and when I went to go get my fish and my nem I took a sample and they tested and said my cycle was done .

Let us know how the anemone goes. @Rmckoy is generally correct, adding an anemone to a new tank can. be difficult

 

[Rmckoy]

Let us know how the anemone goes. @Rmckoy is generally correct, adding an anemone to a new tank can. be difficult

Not impossible , but not the best creature to stock

 

[blecki]

They seem to do best when there's a lot of microfauna for them to feed on.

 

[Rmckoy]

before we all jump on care requirements they all have similar but knowing exactly what species may determine which is easier to care for .
as most will say bta can be easier to care for compared to a mag ( ritteri )