High levels of TIN in my tank

BigJohnny

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 27, 2015
Messages
3,703
Reaction score
2,302
Location
North Carolina
Some of the SPS losses could just be because it's a brand new tank. The lack of stability of a new system can have a negative effect on SPS. I have high tin on my last Triton (I got results yesterday). My SPS, are fine. Great polyp extension, good color, growing. My tin is 7.341 µg/l, I know that's in the, not quite red, level.
my tin is similar to @PiscesPower and i too had no issues wtih sps, but tin can be present in many different forms so the triton test doesn't quite tell the whole story. 7 ug/l of tin in one tank could be in a much more toxic form than 10 ug/l in another, you just don't know.
 

tastyfish

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 7, 2017
Messages
420
Reaction score
326
Location
Hampshire
My elevated tin levels were a result of a 1 year old vortech mp40wqd wetside magnet crack/rusting. Pump was working fine and I had no idea until I took it apart to check after the test and it was split at the seem between the face and size, brown/orange rust leaking out. Do you use vortechs?

Edit, just saw your running jebaos. I would check those and also every other piece of equipment in your tank unfortunately. take apart return pump and powerheads first and foremost.
Tin on its own will rarely come from corrosion. Look for chromium, copper and zinc also which will point to corrosion of plating layers on metal and magnets.

If tin is the only contaminant, then it's likely to be from either new float glass or from plastic stablisers/plasticisers used in PVC
 

BigJohnny

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 27, 2015
Messages
3,703
Reaction score
2,302
Location
North Carolina
Tin on its own will rarely come from corrosion. Look for chromium, copper and zinc also which will point to corrosion of plating layers on metal and magnets.

If tin is the only contaminant, then it's likely to be from either new float glass or from plastic stablisers/plasticisers used in PVC
I know several people that have had elevated tin levels from rusty vortechs that were fixed by replacing the wetside.
 

Reefltx

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
1,042
Reaction score
348
Location
usa
I know several people that have had elevated tin levels from rusty vortechs that were fixed by replacing the wetside.
What if the vortech magnets are not the problem, mine still looks new. Still waiting on my ICP results.
 

BigJohnny

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 27, 2015
Messages
3,703
Reaction score
2,302
Location
North Carolina
What if the vortech magnets are not the problem, mine still looks new. Still waiting on my ICP results.
If yours looks new and the magnet inside isn't cracked then it's not the problem, it was the problem for me.
 
OP
M

mdd1986

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 2, 2017
Messages
155
Reaction score
73
I don't think its from anything rusting but I will deff check the power heads again.
 

Reefltx

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
1,042
Reaction score
348
Location
usa
I got my icp back. Doing 10-15% a week was affective at reducing my Tin. It is down to 10ug from 40
 

tastyfish

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 7, 2017
Messages
420
Reaction score
326
Location
Hampshire
I got my icp back. Doing 10-15% a week was affective at reducing my Tin. It is down to 10ug from 40
Yeah, I did this before I tried the carbon, didn't seem to mess with my levels which was good. I hate water changes, but they are effective for Tin removal! :)
 

ryshark

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Messages
209
Reaction score
85
Location
SoCal
Tin on its own will rarely come from corrosion. Look for chromium, copper and zinc also which will point to corrosion of plating layers on metal and magnets.

If tin is the only contaminant, then it's likely to be from either new float glass or from plastic stablisers/plasticisers used in PVC
Do you know how long tin would be present from float glass?
I was having issues with acros so got an ICP which said my tin level was 17. So I looked at my equipment and all I found was a small screw in my sump with a little rust on it. I assumed this was the issue. Then I ran cuprisorb and started doing weekly 25% to 30% water changes for months to deplete the tin and my acros started doing much better. Then I stared spacing my water changes out to 3-weeks and my acros started going downhill again. I just got another ICP test and the tin is still there at 13. I checked my equipment last time and only found the screw in sump. I don't know what else it could be. I wouldn't be surprised if my glass from my tank was floated on tin when it was made. Does anybody know how long that it would take before tin would stop leaching from glass? My tank is almost 2-years old already.
 

Land Shark

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 14, 2018
Messages
394
Reaction score
450
Location
Tampa, FL
Solder is made of tin, zinc and lead. My SPS were doing fine and then seemed to all die all in the same month while all parameters were steady. ICP showed tin at 40ug. Zinc and lead were both elevated. I couldn’t find the source for a couple months. Finally, a new xtra large filter sock with a soldered steel ring turned out to be the source. When the cloth started to rust, I knew I found it.

It’s difficult to tell from the second picture below but the rust formed where the steel ring is soldered together.

I thought the ring was made of heavy duty plastic. I could not tell without tearing the material apart.

Hopefully my story helps someone.

B3A4C4BA-6BF2-467B-86D1-66B0C13C4DB0.jpeg

2B84C2C2-5D40-4477-B470-A8897EEFD4B7.jpeg
 

ryshark

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Messages
209
Reaction score
85
Location
SoCal
Solder is made of tin, zinc and lead. My SPS were doing fine and then seemed to all die all in the same month while all parameters were steady. ICP showed tin at 40ug. Zinc and lead were both elevated. I couldn’t find the source for a couple months. Finally, a new xtra large filter sock with a soldered steel ring turned out to be the source. When the cloth started to rust, I knew I found it.

It’s difficult to tell from the second picture below but the rust formed where the steel ring is soldered together.

I thought the ring was made of heavy duty plastic. I could not tell without tearing the material apart.

Hopefully my story helps someone.

B3A4C4BA-6BF2-467B-86D1-66B0C13C4DB0.jpeg

2B84C2C2-5D40-4477-B470-A8897EEFD4B7.jpeg
Wow, that's not even the part that is submerged, but it still caused issues. Thinking about what you said, only my Tin is elevated in both of my ICP reports. If I had some metal corrosion going on in my tank, I'm guessing it would be more that just Tin that is elevated... But I'm not sure.
 

tastyfish

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 7, 2017
Messages
420
Reaction score
326
Location
Hampshire
Do you know how long tin would be present from float glass?
I was having issues with acros so got an ICP which said my tin level was 17. So I looked at my equipment and all I found was a small screw in my sump with a little rust on it. I assumed this was the issue. Then I ran cuprisorb and started doing weekly 25% to 30% water changes for months to deplete the tin and my acros started doing much better. Then I stared spacing my water changes out to 3-weeks and my acros started going downhill again. I just got another ICP test and the tin is still there at 13. I checked my equipment last time and only found the screw in sump. I don't know what else it could be. I wouldn't be surprised if my glass from my tank was floated on tin when it was made. Does anybody know how long that it would take before tin would stop leaching from glass? My tank is almost 2-years old already.
If you are conducting water changes, I would expect you could rule out tin from float glass, unless you have added some between tests. Anything rusting needs to come out. Next, have you added any ceramics, equipment or pipework?

Lastly, another possible source is your RO.

Also, whilst toxicity is dependent on the tin compound (an ICP doesn't tell you this), it's effects are also multiplied if the corals are stressed with other parameters being out of spec, especially phosphates. So keep the water chemistry bang on whilst you deal with the Tin. Water changes will remove it, so I would continue doing these, aiming for a series of 15-20% changes.

Cuprisorb has a poor tin affinity, Metasorb is reported to be much better. There is a carbon being tested here in the UK which removed Tin completely from my tank. I'm not sure if it's supplied in the US though.
 

ryshark

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Messages
209
Reaction score
85
Location
SoCal
If you are conducting water changes, I would expect you could rule out tin from float glass, unless you have added some between tests. Anything rusting needs to come out. Next, have you added any ceramics, equipment or pipework?

Lastly, another possible source is your RO.

Also, whilst toxicity is dependent on the tin compound (an ICP doesn't tell you this), it's effects are also multiplied if the corals are stressed with other parameters being out of spec, especially phosphates. So keep the water chemistry bang on whilst you deal with the Tin. Water changes will remove it, so I would continue doing these, aiming for a series of 15-20% changes.

Cuprisorb has a poor tin affinity, Metasorb is reported to be much better. There is a carbon being tested here in the UK which removed Tin completely from my tank. I'm not sure if it's supplied in the US though.
Thanks for the reply, I haven't added anything and my RODI has also been tested and is clean. For my situation there is definitely a source causing the tin, regardless of how many water changes I do, the tin keeps coming back. All of my other parameters check out by my test and 2x ICP tests.
 

tastyfish

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 7, 2017
Messages
420
Reaction score
326
Location
Hampshire
Thanks for the reply, I haven't added anything and my RODI has also been tested and is clean. For my situation there is definitely a source causing the tin, regardless of how many water changes I do, the tin keeps coming back. All of my other parameters check out by my test and 2x ICP tests.
Ok, so I'm going for corrosion. Tin is a common plating metal, so I would remove and check your pumps and any magnets. Are you using ceramic media, rock or frag plugs?

Have you had your freshly mixed salt water tested? Contaminated Salt is another possible source.
 

ryshark

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Messages
209
Reaction score
85
Location
SoCal
Ok, so I'm going for corrosion. Tin is a common plating metal, so I would remove and check your pumps and any magnets. Are you using ceramic media, rock or frag plugs?

Have you had your freshly mixed salt water tested? Contaminated Salt is another possible source.
Wouldn't other metals test elevated also if it was corrosion or not necessarily? I've checked my pumps, I'll have to check them again. I've been thinking about testing the freshly made saltwater mix, but hate to spend $50 on that. However, I've lost WAAAAY more than that on acros. So are you pretty certain its not from the glass for this long of time? The reason I ask is because I'm about to upgrade to a bigger tank. Actually, I already have everything I need including all new equipment. The new, larger tank is the same manufacturer, that's why I ask about how long tin can leach from float glass... if that's even how they make it, I don't know.
On a side note, I do see corrosion on my stands door hinges which are above, but not directly over, my sump.
 

Land Shark

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 14, 2018
Messages
394
Reaction score
450
Location
Tampa, FL
Wouldn't other metals test elevated also if it was corrosion or not necessarily? I've checked my pumps, I'll have to check them again. I've been thinking about testing the freshly made saltwater mix, but hate to spend $50 on that. However, I've lost WAAAAY more than that on acros. So are you pretty certain its not from the glass for this long of time? The reason I ask is because I'm about to upgrade to a bigger tank. Actually, I already have everything I need including all new equipment. The new, larger tank is the same manufacturer, that's why I ask about how long tin can leach from float glass... if that's even how they make it, I don't know.
On a side note, I do see corrosion on my stands door hinges which are above, but not directly over, my sump.
Tim from Triton shared with me that he personally experienced a heavy metals issue in his own tank. He said it turned out to be due to rust on the door hinges on his stand. He also said that when the doors open up, dust particles from the hinges are released into the air. I assume they then float into the sump water (my assumption). Tim also said that after he replaced the hinges his issue went away. Anyway, hope that helps.
 

ryshark

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Messages
209
Reaction score
85
Location
SoCal
Tim from Triton shared with me that he personally experienced a heavy metals issue in his own tank. He said it turned out to be due to rust on the door hinges on his stand. He also said that when the doors open up, dust particles from the hinges are released into the air. I assume they then float into the sump water (my assumption). Tim also said that after he replaced the hinges his issue went away. Anyway, hope that helps.
Interesting, thanks for sharing this. I doubt that this is my problem, but maybe it is. You can see in my picture the top of the hinge has corrosion.

IMG_2445.JPG
 

tastyfish

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 7, 2017
Messages
420
Reaction score
326
Location
Hampshire
Wouldn't other metals test elevated also if it was corrosion or not necessarily? I've checked my pumps, I'll have to check them again. I've been thinking about testing the freshly made saltwater mix, but hate to spend $50 on that. However, I've lost WAAAAY more than that on acros. So are you pretty certain its not from the glass for this long of time? The reason I ask is because I'm about to upgrade to a bigger tank. Actually, I already have everything I need including all new equipment. The new, larger tank is the same manufacturer, that's why I ask about how long tin can leach from float glass... if that's even how they make it, I don't know.
On a side note, I do see corrosion on my stands door hinges which are above, but not directly over, my sump.
Unfortunately I can't rule anything out really, but the tin on float glass is a layer. It doesn't leach, so I wouldn't expect it to suddenly appear. If you'd not done water changes since starting up, then it's possible, but I think unlikely given water changes.

You are right in that corrosion would result in more than one metal. Since tin is a common plating metal, I would expect to see Nickel, Chromium or Copper showing too.

For a new tank, wash everything down (wiping it) with citric acid solution. Do this with pipework and anything plastic. PVC plasticisers and stabilisers are probably the biggest source of tin contamination, which is why I asked if you'd added any new equipment.
 

Can you run a a successful reef long term without some type of reactor and media?

  • Yes

    Votes: 270 72.4%
  • No

    Votes: 43 11.5%
  • Not sure

    Votes: 60 16.1%

Online statistics

Members online
866
Guests online
2,478
Total visitors
3,344
Chaos Aquaculture
Cool Reef Corals
Top