High nitrate but 0.00 phosphate? What to do?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You could also try a nitrate absorbing resin, I have not used them before but hear good things, the resin is rechargeable so the cost doesn't seen bad.



https://bluelifeusa.com/regenerable-resins/

I do not believe there is such a thing as a polymer resin that can selectively absorb nitrate directly from seawater.

Any effects seen with polymers is almost certainly from binding organic matter before it degrades (or random test variation).

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Ideally you want 10 to 1 ratio nitrate to phosphate.

IMO, ratios are not ever a good way to gauge target levels.

Much better are to use the actual values. Just becomes one is excessively low or high, is that a good reason to make both excessively low or high? No.

 

[fushi]

I do not believe there is such a thing as a polymer resin that can selectively absorb nitrate directly from seawater.

Any effects seen with polymers is almost certainly from binding organic matter before it degrades (or random test variation).

Could we test it?
Maybe add x ammount of Sodium nitrate to RO water, test it (compare it to theoretical value), then run the resin though it, and test again? Would there be other factors to account for?

I have not used selectively absorbent resins before but think the idea of them is pretty cool, so for $30 i wouldnt mind testing it.

 

[scandinavian reefer]

So there are a couple different types of microbactor, I’m assuming you have microbactor7 which I don’t really like. I would recommend prodibio biodigest, it should be easily available in sweeden too.

Okey thanks for the tip il look it Up as well. Is prodibio biodigest the same as PNS probio? Or are they 2 different brands? And why is microbacter 7 not a good option ? Just curious and want to learn more I’m really open for advices.

I would make one change at a time, test, and see how your tank changes. Rapid changes stress corals and don’t allow you to pinpoint what fixed your problem.


It is important (especially a small tank) that you match the current tank parameters when you do water changes. The top things to match are Tempture, Alkalinity, and salinity.

Yea I know I want to take things slowly and in a as natural way as possible. When it comes to my water changes I always match temp,and salinity what made me a little suprised is that My last mix showed a alk of 4.8!! And I’m using the tropic Marin pro reef salt. I keep my dkh at 9 in the tank so yea this was suprising

For the price I would recommend getting a AI Nero instead, its a very good power head (AI is also owned by ecotech). I also recommend gyre pumps as they move way more water gently.

Yea I thought about the AI Nero as well it’s been between them or a MP10. I tried the gyres from maxspect before in another tank I had can’t say I wasn’t happy but the huge downside for me was 1 the maintenance
2 the extremely annoying sound wich my wife hates as well hahah.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Could we test it?
Maybe add x ammount of Sodium nitrate to RO water, test it (compare it to theoretical value), then run the resin though it, and test again? Would there be other factors to account for?

I have not used selectively absorbent resins before but think the idea of them is pretty cool, so for $30 i wouldnt mind testing it.

That's a fine test, but you must use seawater and I'm confident even without a test. Sure, other ions can be bound in many different settings. Ion binding polymers that I have invented have sold billions of dollars worth in other industries. But nitrate is exceptionally hard to bind, and the ions in seawater at vastly higher concentrations will simply displace it.

 

[scandinavian reefer]

Post some pics of your tank set up and what you are trying to achieve.

So I’m trying to achieve lower nitrates since they are to high for my comfort.
The tank itself will be LPS dominant with some sps and some softies in the end or at least that’s my goal.

I’m not entirely happy with my aqua scape I should have taken more time there but maybe I can polish it up slowly.

as you can tell by the picture space around the tank is minimal I regret placing it in a corner !

in this chamber I was thinking to try the maxspect anaerobic block but I’m also thinking that I might just try cheato in a net breeder inside the display or if I could mount the Pax bellum algae reactor but this option is expensive and I’m not sure it will look good having the thing hanging on the side.


my setup
Tank :waterbox AIO 600x600x450 mm think it is the 50gallon one.

Skimmer: tunze comline 9004 if remember it right.

light : raideon xr15pro
Flow : return pump sicce and one mp10
Controllers : Apex and apex dos
I also invested in a apex trident that will be installed soon it will sit on a shelf beside the tank.

In the middle of the tank I have dead spots wich is why I’m also thinking to invest in one more pump. Sorry for the blues

And here is just some eye candy that I had to show you

 

[Lavey29]

So I’m trying to achieve lower nitrates since they are to high for my comfort.
The tank itself will be LPS dominant with some sps and some softies in the end or at least that’s my goal.

I’m not entirely happy with my aqua scape I should have taken more time there but maybe I can polish it up slowly.

as you can tell by the picture space around the tank is minimal I regret placing it in a corner !

in this chamber I was thinking to try the maxspect anaerobic block but I’m also thinking that I might just try cheato in a net breeder inside the display or if I could mount the Pax bellum algae reactor but this option is expensive and I’m not sure it will look good having the thing hanging on the side.


my setup
Tank :waterbox AIO 600x600x450 mm think it is the 50gallon one.

Skimmer: tunze comline 9004 if remember it right.

light : raideon xr15pro
Flow : return pump sicce and one mp10
Controllers : Apex and apex dos
I also invested in a apex trident that will be installed soon it will sit on a shelf beside the tank.

In the middle of the tank I have dead spots wich is why I’m also thinking to invest in one more pump. Sorry for the blues

And here is just some eye candy that I had to show you

Nice meat coral. I used a breeder net box for chaeto in my sump but it did not work that well. The chaeto over grew the space quickly.

Stick a bag of chemipure blue in that chamber. It has carbon and purigen. It reduces nitrate by breaking down organics before they become nitrate. They make different size bags for tanks and last 4 months. This plus water change will bring your number down.

 

[TriggersAmuck]

I’m also thinking about to invest in one more MP10 to get a little more flow and get rid of the dead spots.

Take a look at the Nero 5 by AI for flow. I have had both (MP10's and 40's) and the Nero 5, and for the money I wouldn't go any other way. (The Nero 3 of course is an option for smaller tanks, but I have the 5 on a 20 gallon cube, just turned way down).

 

[scandinavian reefer]

Take a look at the Nero 5 by AI for flow. I have had both (MP10's and 40's) and the Nero 5, and for the money I wouldn't go any other way. (The Nero 3 of course is an option for smaller tanks, but I have the 5 on a 20 gallon cube, just turned way down).

Yea I’m leaning towards the AI seems like a nice pump after seeing some reviews.

 

[TriggersAmuck]

Yea I’m leaning towards the AI seems like a nice pump after seeing some reviews.

Also, while I don't personally have an all-in-one tank, I believe you will be able to mount the Nero against the back wall as the outer magnet is minimal compared to the MP's outer motor assembly. (Confirm that with other AIO owners). Also, I find it to be one of the easiest to clean powerhead/pumps I have owned.

 

[scandinavian reefer]

Also, while I don't personally have an all-in-one tank, I believe you will be able to mount the Nero against the back wall as the outer magnet is minimal compared to the MP's outer motor assembly. (Confirm that with other AIO owners). Also, I find it to be one of the easiest to clean powerhead/pumps I have owned.

Is the outer magnet waterproof?? If it is then yes I can have it on the back wall och would be nice

 

[Kenneth Wingerter]

Okey thanks for the tip il look it Up as well. Is prodibio biodigest the same as PNS probio? Or are they 2 different brands? And why is microbacter 7 not a good option ? Just curious and want to learn more I’m really open for advices.

Totally different brands and probably different species of bacteria. https://www.algaebarn.com/blog/advanced/r-palustris-the-do-all-aquarium-bacteria/

 

[scandinavian reefer]

I got some really good advice from many different people here im thankful guys.

it’s hard to decide wich exact route to go and wich things to get and don’t get.

I want to keep things simple and as hassle free as possible and to have stable consistent parameters especially when it comes to the nitrates and phosphates.

I looked up and read about the things you guys recommended to me here some of my thoughts

ALGAE AS NUTRIENT REDUCTION :

I will ditch the idea of the pax bellum won’t look nice hanging on the tank and expensive. I would have loved the benefit of algae though since it does soo much good on many aspects but I may have to realize that I just won’t work on my type of setup and my type of tank. The net breeder idea did not work well for @Lavey29 so I don’t see why I should try it and again in the end I would have to have that in the display all the time wich won’t look good.

BENEFICIAL BACTERIA:
As mentioned before I would like to use beneficial bacteria on the tank just think it have a lot of benefits.
Here I got 2 recommendations the PNS probio and prodibio biodigest. Read both good things and bad things on the later one not entirely sure wich one would be the best. Prodibio biodigest is available in Sweden but again seen both good reviews and bad. PNS probio is available at algae barn to my surprise it looks like they ship internationally wich would be cool. At home I have the microbacter7 at the moment but I’m open to get something else if it’s a better type of beneficial bacteria.

CHEMICAL SOLUTIONS/ other solutions

I have used nitraphos from AF but eased of on it I feel like it did more to my phosphates than the nitrates wich is obviously concluded since my nitrates are so high. Not sure if I really should consider continuing this route.

chemipure blue
again a product not so common here in Europe at least not in Sweden am I able to get it? Yes through Amazon. Is it the answer to my nitrate problem don’t know never used it before would like to hear from someone that has more experience with it and what they think about it.

maxspect anaerobic block ( maybe not a chemical product more
A biological I guess
A fairly new product at least here in Sweden just like anything else first The US have it for half a year before it hits Europe hahah. Again does anyone have any experience with it ? If so is it effective?

conclussion

Weekly water changes in a month it would be around 30%

Feed less

 

[GARRIGA]

I'm a Redfield ratio believer but don't believe that in the aquarium it's an exact ratio. In my limited experience with the Redfield, I've noticed a reduction in Nitrates by just introducing phosphates. Seems the presence of both needed to reduce the other.

Post fish-less cycle my nitrates were 160 ppm plus. Phosphates were less than 0.25 ppm. Added enough NeoPhos to raise it to 4 ppm. Nitrates dropped to under 5 ppm and phosphates returned to their previous test setting. Never saw phosphates rise to 4 ppm but amount added calculated to that expectation. Now that I have fish I'm less aggressive with NeoPhos and still my nitrates have dropped from 40 ppm to 20 ppm and next test they should be back to normal.

I need to provide a disclaimer in that I'm running a large volume of bio-media which by itself tends to keep nutrients down but since it's an experimental tank I do tinker and at times nutrients rise at which point phosphates and/or carbon dosing are employed. Tank is phosphate limited which is odd since 1/5th of my biological media is Reborn. MB7 is also added at times. Like I said, it's an experimental tank and I tinker. Plus I'm not one to try being too precise. Nature often isn't. More of a holistic thinker and how I approach life and my endeavors.

 

[Lavey29]

I got some really good advice from many different people here im thankful guys.

it’s hard to decide wich exact route to go and wich things to get and don’t get.

I want to keep things simple and as hassle free as possible and to have stable consistent parameters especially when it comes to the nitrates and phosphates.

I looked up and read about the things you guys recommended to me here some of my thoughts

ALGAE AS NUTRIENT REDUCTION :

I will ditch the idea of the pax bellum won’t look nice hanging on the tank and expensive. I would have loved the benefit of algae though since it does soo much good on many aspects but I may have to realize that I just won’t work on my type of setup and my type of tank. The net breeder idea did not work well for @Lavey29 so I don’t see why I should try it and again in the end I would have to have that in the display all the time wich won’t look good.

BENEFICIAL BACTERIA:
As mentioned before I would like to use beneficial bacteria on the tank just think it have a lot of benefits.
Here I got 2 recommendations the PNS probio and prodibio biodigest. Read both good things and bad things on the later one not entirely sure wich one would be the best. Prodibio biodigest is available in Sweden but again seen both good reviews and bad. PNS probio is available at algae barn to my surprise it looks like they ship internationally wich would be cool. At home I have the microbacter7 at the moment but I’m open to get something else if it’s a better type of beneficial bacteria.

CHEMICAL SOLUTIONS/ other solutions

I have used nitraphos from AF but eased of on it I feel like it did more to my phosphates than the nitrates wich is obviously concluded since my nitrates are so high. Not sure if I really should consider continuing this route.

chemipure blue
again a product not so common here in Europe at least not in Sweden am I able to get it? Yes through Amazon. Is it the answer to my nitrate problem don’t know never used it before would like to hear from someone that has more experience with it and what they think about it.

maxspect anaerobic block ( maybe not a chemical product more
A biological I guess
A fairly new product at least here in Sweden just like anything else first The US have it for half a year before it hits Europe hahah. Again does anyone have any experience with it ? If so is it effective?

conclussion

Weekly water changes in a month it would be around 30%

Feed less

75 nitrate is not that big of deal so you have time to fine tune your approach to lowering it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'm a Redfield ratio believer but don't believe that in the aquarium it's an exact ratio. In my limited experience with the Redfield, I've noticed a reduction in Nitrates by just introducing phosphates. Seems the presence of both needed to reduce the other.

I certainly do not disagree with the fact that both are needed to biologically reduce them (that's the very definition of what a limiting nutrient is), but I do disagree that ratios are a better way to look at it, as opposed to having both at appropriate absolute levels.

Is there a scenario that a ratio is more useful than saying something like:

desired levels
nitrate 2-10 ppm
phosphate 0.02 to 0.1 ppm

 

[GARRIGA]

I certainly do not disagree with the fact that both are needed to biologically reduce them (that's the very definition of what a limiting nutrient is), but I do disagree that ratios are a better way to look at it, as opposed to having both at appropriate absolute levels.

Is there a scenario that a ratio is more useful than saying something like:

desired levels
nitrate 2-10 ppm
phosphate 0.02 to 0.1 ppm

Just commenting on my own experience where I didn't add the prescribed ratio yet was able to lower one with the other. Having nitrates at 160 plus and just elevating phosphates to 4 is considerably off the 10:1 or 20:1 often quoted. Prior to adding NeoPhos I was unable to lower nitrates by just carbon dosing. The catalyst was the increased phosphates and I've performed this act a few times. Not scientific type testing but strong enough anecdotal to have some basis.

As for having specific required levels I believe we are still learning. WWC keeps their corals under 25 ppm. One could say they are successful. Not all corals require less than 1 ppm phosphates. My experimental tank still void of corals but I can see the affects of nutrients in the formation of algae. Twice GHA has shown itself. Last was a rather large showing yet both times has subsided on it's own. Doubt my CUC making a dent. it literally was there over a few days then gone in the same duration. I believe both events occurred when having to raise phosphates and both dissipated as that went away. My only nuisance algae is regular green that is smothering my rocks and currently going through a blackout phase plus added urchin and most likely because I have a leftover Kessil Tuna Sun that is blasted at full power because I wanted to see how full spectrum would affect a tank and corals. seems that experiment ran it's course and time for appropriate lighting. Then on to getting coralline established and first corals added.

Will continue tinkering as I have a few ideas that I've been working on past 40 and looking to build my dream tank which is taking longer than 40 years. Life often gets in the way.

 

[jphilip813]

I’ve been battling high nitrates and non-existent phosphates for months. I feel like my nitrates wouldn’t come done because there were no phosphates (denitrification, regardless of method, can’t happen without some phosphate). So, I’ve been dosing phosphate for about a month, and my nitrates have since dropped significantly. My tank/rock is consuming/absorbing nearly 0.02ppm of phosphates a day. Hoping that the rock will reach saturation soon and that I won’t have to dose as much, but I’ve read that can take a while.

Hi, how much Phosphates are you dosing daily and what brand did you go with?

 

[MaxTremors]

Hi, how much Phosphates are you dosing daily and what brand did you go with?

Neophos, and I’m dosing roughly 0.02ppm per day, which is roughly 2ml per day in my tank (around 25 gallons of water). I’ve been monitoring it and I’m probably going to up the dose, if I dose in the morning, by the afternoon it’s roughly 0.01ppm, I’d like to get it up to 0.03.

 

[jphilip813]

Neophos, and I’m dosing roughly 0.02ppm per day, which is roughly 2ml per day in my tank (around 25 gallons of water). I’ve been monitoring it and I’m probably going to up the dose, if I dose in the morning, by the afternoon it’s roughly 0.01ppm, I’d like to get it up to 0.03.

Good to know, I will be watchn your progress. I started to does Sodium Phosphate yesterday. I was also in the same boat, 0.00 'phosphates and relatively low nitrates, this is after I did a major sump cleaning as well as using nopox...Today I tested the Phosphates (Hanna Checker/API) and they were at .033 ppm per Hanna and API .25ppm. I will continue to monitor mine and see if it continues to increase.