High Nitrite

[gr8pretender]

*new to hobby alert* First post and I can feel eyes rolling to the back of your heads already. I’m cycling my new tank for almost three weeks now. I decided to do a fishless cycle and when I first added Dr. Tims ammonium, I put twice the recommended amount on accident over the period of a few days (I was doing the ammonia test wrong and so I thought I had to keep adding more). After reading many articles mentioning that it could stall the cycle, I was going to do a 50% water change and try to nip it in the bud, but I had decided to see (for science) if I could just throw in some extra Dr. Tim’s bacteria and do a 50% change the next weekend if I started seeing nitrates and add more bacteria. Eventually after a week I did see nitrites and even nitrates. I did my 60%ish water change, added Dr. Tim’s nitrifying bacteria. By mid week, ammonia was getting close to zero, nitrites sky high, nitrates sky high. Then suddenly nitrates almost completely dropped off. So it started to look like a stalled cycle. The next week the ammonia dropped to 0... I did a 90% water change the following weekend (this weekend) and the nitrites are still sky high maybe immeasurable (seemingly, because on the API test it is hard to judge the different purples). I wanted to do another water change right away, but instead I added Fritz turbo start. Does anyone have any insight as to why this happened? Is the nitrite actually in the substrate or in the rocks versus the water? (So water change stirred it it?) I tested the RO water (which is from a local aquarium shop) before I added salt (Instand Ocean) and it has zero nitrites so it’s not already in the water before I add salt. Ammonia is now 0, Nitrites seemingly too high to measure, Nitrates little to none, PH 7.9-8, KH 7. I had started with seeded dry live rock, I had live sand. I have 12 maxspect biomedia spheres, a fluval biomedia pouch, I added the tiniest ball of Chaeto when nitrates went up (thought it might help with nitrates). I have fluval ammonia and nitrite sponge filters. I read in another similar forum thread that someone recommended getting nitiates to completely zero through continual water changes and dosing ammonium again... but that didn’t completely make sense to me because we obviously have the bacteria that turns the ammonia to nitrite all happy and working, it seems like it’s the bacteria that turns the nitrite to nitrate that’s unhappy... Any thoughts? (Also, please be kind, I’m already being hard on myself about this and feeling extra dumb/hopeless).

 

[brandon429]

How to unstick any seemingly stuck cycle

non digital ammonia test kit readings (api, Red Sea, nyos, seachem badges) make you think you aren’t cycled when indeed you are if you owned a $200 expensive seneye meter, you’d never be doubting your cycle status. since .01% of the reefing population owns these, we need a way to help the...

www.reef2reef.com

your cycle is done due to multiple bac used and each works well on its own, see that thread about your nitrite details.

all the rules you were using send you back to the store for more purchases, so we re wrote the rules to make that not needed

you can literally begin reefing right now, those costly bottle bac mixes allow for that. right above is twenty reefs in your condition, doing fine

your bottle bac works by the date on the bottles each time. be sure and see how many tanks above were in your exact condition, timeframe, and sourcing. 100% of them were ready.

as you can see, your tank isn't stuck. just change the water out and begin reefing as you've paid for that ability and its not bad to make use of it

 

[Azedenkae]

I have 12 maxspect biomedia spheres, a fluval biomedia pouch, I added the tiniest ball of Chaeto when nitrates went up (thought it might help with nitrates). I have fluval ammonia and nitrite sponge filters.

Hi there, welcome to the forum!

I have a question about your filtration media. When you say fluval ammonia and nitrite sponge filters, what products are they exactly? Do you have the full name of the product, or a picture of them? They don't for example happen to be something like this: https://fluvalaquatics.com/ca/product/ammonia-remover/ ?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Main causes generally are :

• The aquarium is too young for the livestock within it
• Overstocked. Too many fish
• Not enough Live Rock/Live Sand/Beneficial Bacteria habitat
• Overfeeding
• Little or no water changes
• Small water change volumes
• Too much detritus
• No protein skimmer or protein skimmer is too small

 

[Aqua Man]

Nitrites seemingly too high to measure, Nitrates little to none,

Interesting. Every one says that nitrite interferes with nitrate test. Either way, if you added fritz bacteria then you are good to go!

Also, API test kits are prone to errors.

 

[schuby]

Here's some additional information for you. The ammonia-to-nitrite bacteria multiply very fast causing ammonia to drop quite rapidly in a day or two. The nitrite-to-nitrate bacteria multiply at a slower rate, causing the nitrite to drop less rapidly and take days longer to get to zero or near-zero.

As for nitrate, it doesn't ever just disappear (and does not indicate a stalled or not cycle). It has to be removed by being consumed or bound to something. In general, nothing disappears in our tanks: it only gets removed or converted to something else. The ongoing challenge for reef-keepers is to balance the import (feeding/dosing) with export (chaeto, gfo, water-changes, skimmer, filter-pads, etc). If we regularly import more than we export, then something is going to get very high and most likely cause issues in our tanks.

Back to your cycle, they don't permanently stall due to too much ammonia addition, but they do get very slow and take weeks longer. If I was in your shoes, I'd slow down. If you double-dosed the ammonia, then you'll have to go through double the nitrite. Converting a large amount of nitrite to nitrate will take time. Be patient. I'd remove the fluval sponges and focus on a method of nitrate removal. The nitrite will go away on its own as it will be converted to nitrate.

The good news is that your tank will be able to handle a large load of ammonia and nitrite.

 

[gr8pretender]

Hi there, welcome to the forum!

I have a question about your filtration media. When you say fluval ammonia and nitrite sponge filters, what products are they exactly? Do you have the full name of the product, or a picture of them? They don't for example happen to be something like this: https://fluvalaquatics.com/ca/product/ammonia-remover/ ?

These are the products/filters I am using. I have that right under the return flow back into the little sump. Chaeto is in the box under that. Chamber 2 has 6 MaxSpec BioMac Ceramic Balls and the fluval bag of biomedia that came with the tank at the bottom. Chamber 3 just has a wood airstone (airstone in place of skimmer since bubbles brings up matter and sends it to the return where I have the sponges) and of course heater and pump.

 

[Jekyl]

Welcome to R2R! Lots of good advice above so that's all I got

 

[vetteguy53081]

Here's some additional information for you. The ammonia-to-nitrite bacteria multiply very fast causing ammonia to drop quite rapidly in a day or two. The nitrite-to-nitrate bacteria multiply at a slower rate, causing the nitrite to drop less rapidly and take days longer to get to zero or near-zero.

As for nitrate, it doesn't ever just disappear (and does not indicate a stalled or not cycle). It has to be removed by being consumed or bound to something. In general, nothing disappears in our tanks: it only gets removed or converted to something else. The ongoing challenge for reef-keepers is to balance the import (feeding/dosing) with export (chaeto, gfo, water-changes, skimmer, filter-pads, etc). If we regularly import more than we export, then something is going to get very high and most likely cause issues in our tanks.

Back to your cycle, they don't permanently stall due to too much ammonia addition, but they do get very slow and take weeks longer. If I was in your shoes, I'd slow down. If you double-dosed the ammonia, then you'll have to go through double the nitrite. Converting a large amount of nitrite to nitrate will take time. Be patient. I'd remove the fluval sponges and focus on a method of nitrate removal. The nitrite will go away on its own as it will be converted to nitrate.

The good news is that your tank will be able to handle a large load of ammonia and nitrite.

There is no good news with ammonia and saltwater tanks CANNOT handle large or Small loads of ammonia. Be very careful with this statement.
Ammonia is the natural waste product of fish metabolism and will accumulate in the aquarium to TOXIC levels, killing the fish. Fortunately, beneficial bacteria in the biofilter will break down the toxic ammonia. However, there are two forms of ammonia that occur in aquariums: un-ionized ammonia (NH3), which is the toxic form, and ionized ammonium (NH4+), which is essentially non-toxic. If your tank PH is at 8.3, most of the ammonia molecules (90 percent) will be in the toxic (NH3) form. But, if the water pH is 7.5, with the same amount of ammonia in the tank, it will be mostly (98 percent) in the non-toxic ammonium (NH4+) form.
The higher the pH and temperature, the more toxic ammonia becomes as more of it is in the toxic ammonia (NH3) form rather than ammonium (NH4+). In turn, nitrate will elevate and levels above 40 will become problematic.

 

[gr8pretender]

Here's some additional information for you. The ammonia-to-nitrite bacteria multiply very fast causing ammonia to drop quite rapidly in a day or two. The nitrite-to-nitrate bacteria multiply at a slower rate, causing the nitrite to drop less rapidly and take days longer to get to zero or near-zero.

As for nitrate, it doesn't ever just disappear (and does not indicate a stalled or not cycle). It has to be removed by being consumed or bound to something. In general, nothing disappears in our tanks: it only gets removed or converted to something else. The ongoing challenge for reef-keepers is to balance the import (feeding/dosing) with export (chaeto, gfo, water-changes, skimmer, filter-pads, etc). If we regularly import more than we export, then something is going to get very high and most likely cause issues in our tanks.

Back to your cycle, they don't permanently stall due to too much ammonia addition, but they do get very slow and take weeks longer. If I was in your shoes, I'd slow down. If you double-dosed the ammonia, then you'll have to go through double the nitrite. Converting a large amount of nitrite to nitrate will take time. Be patient. I'd remove the fluval sponges and focus on a method of nitrate removal. The nitrite will go away on its own as it will be converted to nitrate.

The good news is that your tank will be able to handle a large load of ammonia and nitrite.

Well... in that case, the nitrate might have just turned into the TONS of diatoms that were all over the rocks and sand where the light hit, so maybe thats why it seemed like they disappeared (I'm sure the chaeto is helping ever so slightly and the few $5 frags of corals I put in to test things out). Glad for everyones reassurance. I added clownfish yesterday and some CUC because the diatoms were ridiculous, I had done a 90% water change on Saturday before adding life and there was diatoms on Sunday again.

 

[Azedenkae]

These are the products/filters I am using.

Coolio, figured. I would recommend not using either of the Fluval ammonia/nitrite removers. It should be really easy to have enough nitrifiers to handle all the ammonia and nitrite produced. Relying on chemical filtration to remove ammonia and nitrite just potentially poses trouble down the line.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Well... in that case, the nitrate might have just turned into the TONS of diatoms that were all over the rocks and sand where the light hit, so maybe thats why it seemed like they disappeared (I'm sure the chaeto is helping ever so slightly and the few $5 frags of corals I put in to test things out). Glad for everyones reassurance. I added clownfish yesterday and some CUC because the diatoms were ridiculous, I had done a 90% water change on Saturday before adding life and there was diatoms on Sunday again.

Very possible. Do you have any pics under white light ?

 

[gr8pretender]

Very possible. Do you have any pics under white light ?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Not seeing much of any dino. You can however reduce white light intensity to reduce chances of dino

 

[Franci1017]

Does the nitrites ever drop??

 

[NeonRabbit221B]

Nitrites will show up on a nitrate test kit. If you have any nitrite then your nitrate reading will be somewhere around 10x nitrite concentration (forgetting the multiplier here). Nitrite is also largely non toxic in a reef which is why your fish haven’t died. I agree with Brandon on WC to unstick cycle

 

[Franci1017]

Nitrites will show up on a nitrate test kit. If you have any nitrite then your nitrate reading will be somewhere around 10x nitrite concentration (forgetting the multiplier here). Nitrite is also largely non toxic in a reef which is why your fish haven’t died. I agree with Brandon on WC to unstick cycle

I'm currently cycling my Red Sea XL 425 with 60 pounds of caribsea arch rocks, 80 pounds caribsea sand special grade with 2kg Maxspect nano-tech bio spheres in the sump.. Fishless cycle with dr tim's one and only using Dr tims ammonium chloride solution. i'm on day 21 of cycle and nitrites not dropping, zero ammonia since day 8, I did 25% water change but nitrite didn't dropped 3 times. what should i do?

 

[brandon429]

We covered in our post that means your tank is ready see post #1 here:

How to unstick any seemingly stuck cycle

non digital ammonia test kit readings (api, Red Sea, nyos, seachem badges) make you think you aren’t cycled when indeed you are if you owned a $200 expensive seneye meter, you’d never be doubting your cycle status. since .01% of the reefing population owns these, we need a way to help the...

www.reef2reef.com

you can tell by reading post #1 there your tank is done. Cycle complete.reason-we only track what ammonia does and it dropped by the date a cycling chart said it would, that's perfect. change out all water and begin

 

[NeonRabbit221B]

Brandon beat me to it.

 

[schuby]

I'm currently cycling my Red Sea XL 425 with 60 pounds of caribsea arch rocks, 80 pounds caribsea sand special grade with 2kg Maxspect nano-tech bio spheres in the sump.. Fishless cycle with dr tim's one and only using Dr tims ammonium chloride solution. i'm on day 21 of cycle and nitrites not dropping, zero ammonia since day 8, I did 25% water change but nitrite didn't dropped 3 times. what should i do?

How many times have you added ammonia during your cycle?