High Nitrites and Nitrates 3 months into new tank

certain_code · Apr 1, 2022

As an update, I did a 40-gallon water change using water measuring .2ppm of Nitrite (24 hours freshly mixed saltwater).

After waiting a day to test, it seems that it knocked down Nitrites to 2ppm. I will take any improvement on this front at this point but will likely be doing another 40-gallon change over the weekend to try to knock it down even more. I'm still a bit confused about why Nitrites are still so present even after a 65% water change. I guess the basic math makes sense though. My concern is if I am ultimately doing more harm by not allowing the proper bacteria to take hold and naturally consume the NItrite but we will see.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Apr 1, 2022

certain_code said:
As an update, I did a 40-gallon water change using water measuring .2ppm of Nitrite (24 hours freshly mixed saltwater).

After waiting a day to test, it seems that it knocked down Nitrites to 2ppm. I will take any improvement on this front at this point but will likely be doing another 40-gallon change over the weekend to try to knock it down even more. I'm still a bit confused about why Nitrites are still so present even after a 65% water change. I guess the basic math makes sense though. My concern is if I am ultimately doing more harm by not allowing the proper bacteria to take hold and naturally consume the NItrite but we will see.

If you want to speed the process, ensure there is adequate phosphate and either transfer some rocks/sand from another tank, or try some commercial cycling bacteria products.

Or just ignore it and pretend you never measured it.

certain_code · Apr 2, 2022

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
If you want to speed the process, ensure there is adequate phosphate and either transfer some rocks/sand from another tank, or try some commercial cycling bacteria products.

Or just ignore it and pretend you never measured it.

I have been dosing per the “low-nutrient” dosage method with MicroBacter7, using 1 cap per 50 gallons a week. Phosphates are measuring 4ppm using a Hanna checker. How do phosphates play a role in speeding up this part of the process? I had read somewhere here that they potentially outcompete the beneficial bacteria but I am still looking now for that reference.

Ultimately I am ignoring Nitrites for the most part but am also planning on sending out an ATI ICP test this week. I am going through the usual ugly tank phase but there seems to be something else going on as my fish are a bit pale and water quality overall seems to remain pretty poor. I want to rule out that my source water or a lack of cycle are the issues as I hope to approach the first coral stages here in the next few months.

certain_code · Apr 7, 2022

Posting back an update in the event that someone finds this in search sometime in the future.

After nearly 95 days since my ammonia could be processed to Nitrite in my tank in 24 hours and having Nitrite measure 4+ppm in the tank ever since. I finally have 0.1ppm of Nitrite in the tank and Nitrate is reading 1.2.

Conclusions based on what I saw:
- Prime may or may not have been adversely affecting my measurements. However, after a large water change with some Prime still in the system, it seems that it was not likely affecting my numbers in my case specifically.
- The Nitrite production took a lot longer time than the processing of ammonia for my bare bottom tank. Nearly 10x more in fact. As others mentioned here and in various other recent posts, moderately elevated Nitrites had seemingly no effect on my livestock.
- Nitrites seemed to have greatly affected the results of my Nitrate testing with my Hanna checker. While it may have just been a coincidence, after 2 larger water changes, Nitrites were still at 2ppm and Nitrate was at 50ppm. Since the last testing and water change, Nitrites have since dropped to .1, and Nitrates are now measured at just 1.2ppm.

Overall, my elevated Nitites may have just caused the processing to have taken longer but it is unclear if that was the issue or if eventually time just ran its course. Anyone facing seemingly 'stalled' Nitrites should perform 2-3 large water changes (60%+ if possible) over a period of a few weeks and let the cycle do its thing.

This follows the long-time contributor's advice here ultimately so thank you to everyone that provided it. Much appreciated and hopefully can continue to help others in the future as well.

Fichmiester · Apr 21, 2022

certain_code said:
Posting back an update in the event that someone finds this in search sometime in the future.

After nearly 95 days since my ammonia could be processed to Nitrite in my tank in 24 hours and having Nitrite measure 4+ppm in the tank ever since. I finally have 0.1ppm of Nitrite in the tank and Nitrate is reading 1.2.

Conclusions based on what I saw:
- Prime may or may not have been adversely affecting my measurements. However, after a large water change with some Prime still in the system, it seems that it was not likely affecting my numbers in my case specifically.
- The Nitrite production took a lot longer time than the processing of ammonia for my bare bottom tank. Nearly 10x more in fact. As others mentioned here and in various other recent posts, moderately elevated Nitrites had seemingly no effect on my livestock.
- Nitrites seemed to have greatly affected the results of my Nitrate testing with my Hanna checker. While it may have just been a coincidence, after 2 larger water changes, Nitrites were still at 2ppm and Nitrate was at 50ppm. Since the last testing and water change, Nitrites have since dropped to .1, and Nitrates are now measured at just 1.2ppm.

Overall, my elevated Nitites may have just caused the processing to have taken longer but it is unclear if that was the issue or if eventually time just ran its course. Anyone facing seemingly 'stalled' Nitrites should perform 2-3 large water changes (60%+ if possible) over a period of a few weeks and let the cycle do its thing.

This follows the long-time contributor's advice here ultimately so thank you to everyone that provided it. Much appreciated and hopefully can continue to help others in the future as well.

So I noticed a nitrite spike in my QT on Monday when I purchased my second fish (Flame angel) for my QT tank, bare bottom... I have a bicolor that has been in QT for about 2 full weeks and hasn't had any ill-effects, but my rusty angel died after a week, which I think was due to the nitrite spike.

I've been keeping the flame angel in the bag doing 50% water changes daily to combat ammonia build up...

But....do you think I should put him in the QT tank, or continue to do water changes in the bag? I just don't want to introduce him into a high nitrite QT, when his bagged water has zero.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Apr 21, 2022

Fichmiester said:
So I noticed a nitrite spike in my QT on Monday when I purchased my second fish (Flame angel) for my QT tank, bare bottom... I have a bicolor that has been in QT for about 2 full weeks and hasn't had any ill-effects, but my rusty angel died after a week, which I think was due to the nitrite spike.

I've been keeping the flame angel in the bag doing 50% water changes daily to combat ammonia build up...

But....do you think I should put him in the QT tank, or continue to do water changes in the bag? I just don't want to introduce him into a high nitrite QT, when his bagged water has zero.

what makes you believe nitrite killed it?

How high is it?

Fichmiester · Apr 21, 2022

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
what makes you believe nitrite killed it?

How high is it?

When I checked the parameters the day prior, nitrite wasn’t nearly as high. It sits Around 2.0ppm. And doesn’t alternate. I thought it was a faulty test, but the bag water from new fish and RO water reads zero ppm. A complete zero.

But ammonia has gone down for sure…

I also started reading the great thread @brandon429 put together, So I’m starting to think I’ve been duped by the API test kit BS…

Randy Holmes-Farley · Apr 21, 2022

Fichmiester said:
When I checked the parameters the day prior, nitrite wasn’t nearly as high. It sits Around 2.0ppm. And doesn’t alternate. I thought it was a faulty test, but the bag water from new fish and RO water reads zero ppm. A complete zero.

But ammonia has gone down for sure…

I also started reading the great thread @brandon429 put together, So I’m starting to think I’ve been duped by the API test kit BS…

I would not think 2 ppm nitrite killed a fish. I’ve not seen any published tox data for fish anywhere close to that.

Fichmiester · Apr 21, 2022

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
I would not think 2 ppm nitrite killed a fish. I’ve not seen any published tox data for fish anywhere close to that.

It’s at 2ppm now, when my Rusty Angel died it was Showing much higher….this photo is right after my rusty was removed from tank.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Apr 21, 2022

Fichmiester said:
It’s at 2ppm now, when my Rusty Angel died it was Showing much higher….this photo is right after my rusty was removed from tank.

I think that ammonia is much more likely a problem than the nitrite.

Fichmiester · Apr 21, 2022

This was a couple days ago…

certain_code · Apr 21, 2022

Judging by those test photos, I would also assume a newly added fish to QT probably died due to the ammonia present, stress on transfer, and generally poor water quality with all of your results combined. I'm no expert but I would certainly be using something like Prime in a QT to fully detoxify as much as you can considering QT typically has no biofilter depending on your medications used. As Randy stated, Nitrite is likely not the issue here.

Fichmiester · Apr 21, 2022

@certain_code That’s interesting, I hadn’t considered using prime. Since I already have fish, is it too late to bring that into the equation?

really trying to do it safe considering the flame Angel was just purchased Tuesday.

certain_code · Apr 21, 2022

Fichmiester said:
@certain_code That’s interesting, I hadn’t considered using prime. Since I already have fish, is it too late to bring that into the equation?

really trying to do it safe considering the flame Angel was just purchased Tuesday.

You did not mention what, if anything, you are dosing for medication in QT so I cannot say for sure. Again, I am certainly no expert here so if you are not following this guide by Humble I would do so. In your position, I would do a large water change to eliminate Ammonia ASAP. If you have not dosed ANYTHING in QT then I would just use Prime to quickly detoxify.

How To - Quarantine

How to Setup a Quarantine Tank (updated 4-6-2023) The following are the essentials: Aquarium (10-30 gallons seems to work for most people. A larger QT lets you house more fish and gives you more wiggle room when it comes to ammonia. A smaller QT is cheaper, easier to maintain and can be...

humble.fish

Fichmiester · Apr 21, 2022

certain_code said:
You did not mention what, if anything, you are dosing for medication in QT so I cannot say for sure. Again, I am certainly no expert here so if you are not following this guide by Humble I would do so. In your position, I would do a large water change to eliminate Ammonia ASAP. If you have not dosed ANYTHING in QT then I would just use Prime to quickly detoxify.

How To - Quarantine

How to Setup a Quarantine Tank (updated 4-6-2023) The following are the essentials: Aquarium (10-30 gallons seems to work for most people. A larger QT lets you house more fish and gives you more wiggle room when it comes to ammonia. A smaller QT is cheaper, easier to maintain and can be...

humble.fish

I’ve been just observing, but I’m ready to General Cure anytime. Should I do Prime first?

certain_code · Apr 21, 2022

Fichmiester said:
I’ve been just observing, but I’m ready to General Cure anytime. Should I do Prime first?

Honestly, I am not qualified to make a suggestion here and this is getting a bit out of the scope of my main thread here. The main takeaway for me here is that your ammonia is much higher than it should be and that is the first thing you should be solving for. If you have not dosed anything then Prime should be safe but you could also perform a large water change to lower your ammonia. I would also not rely on API test kits if simply just due to the risk of even human error in testing let alone the quality of test kits.

This is not advice but if I was in your position I would not use General Cure just to simply use it at this point. You can either be passive and just look for issues and not dose anything unless you specifically identify disease while in QT. The second option I would personally follow is the process outlined by HumbleFish here which is more aggressive but the best way in my view to ensure healthy fish. If you have not already, read that post 5 times and make a decision on how you would prefer to proceed.

There may be nothing wrong with your approach but given you have measured ammonia I would say there is something you are missing about the process that could cause additional death. You simply should never really have a measured amount of ammonia in my opinion. I personally would be using Ammonia Alert badge to monitor and go through the "Scenario 1" for Ammonia control and "Option A" for Quarantine Protocol.

Fichmiester · Apr 21, 2022

certain_code said:
Honestly, I am not qualified to make a suggestion here and this is getting a bit out of the scope of my main thread here. The main takeaway for me here is that your ammonia is much higher than it should be and that is the first thing you should be solving for. If you have not dosed anything then Prime should be safe but you could also perform a large water change to lower your ammonia. I would also not rely on API test kits if simply just due to the risk of even human error in testing let alone the quality of test kits.

This is not advice but if I was in your position I would not use General Cure just to simply use it at this point. You can either be passive and just look for issues and not dose anything unless you specifically identify disease while in QT. The second option I would personally follow is the process outlined by HumbleFish here which is more aggressive but the best way in my view to ensure healthy fish. If you have not already, read that post 5 times and make a decision on how you would prefer to proceed.

There may be nothing wrong with your approach but given you have measured ammonia I would say there is something you are missing about the process that could cause additional death. You simply should never really have a measured amount of ammonia in my opinion. I personally would be using Ammonia Alert badge to monitor and go through the "Scenario 1" for Ammonia control and "Option A" for Quarantine Protocol.

Really appreciate the advice. Thanks so much.

Freenow54 · Apr 21, 2022

certain_code said:
Here is a quick rundown of my situation. I am 3 months into a new tank cycle but still reading 4+ ppm Nitrites and off-the-chart Nitrates as well. My research here has led me to a few similar discussions but I want to make sure my specific situation is similar and that I am approaching things correctly.

The tank has been set up for 3 months now, bare bottom with dry rock that was cycling for 2 months in a container. The total cycle time was 5 months in all and I am also running PolypLabs Genisis bricks to add to the filtration. The cycle was completed with XLM and dosed ammonia per instructions. The expected Ammonia drop and Nitrites spike occurred followed by the Nitrate spike; cycle complete, or so I thought. I also verified by dosing 2ppm of Ammonia which was processed to 0 in 48 hours.

Currently, I am reading 4+ ppm of Nitrite, and Nitrates are reading super high, given Nitrites likely affect those test results. I have stopped testing Nitrates following the advice here that Nitrites are not making it possible to get an accurate reading anyway.

Originally, I was reading 1-2 Nitrites per my Salifert tests. Since Nitrites are known to be non-toxic at lower levels to Marine fish, I stopped testing them, declared the cycle complete, and went out to buy my first 3 fish. After adding 2 clowns and a Tang, I closely monitored for any Ammonia increase and saw none. I then had to deal with what I assume was a bacterial infection in the tank of all of my fish. I made sure to treat only with products claiming to not degrade the tank's biofilter. After treating with Metroplex, Kanaplex, and Paraguard throughout a 3 week period, the fish are doing great and have almost fully recovered. I had then ran Carbon to remove as much of the medication as possible and have since done 2 80% water changes over 2 weeks time. I am also running an auto water change system that changes 15% of the water over a week's time.

What I am currently confused by is that I cannot seem to lower my Nitrites and thus Nitrates even after large water changes and nearly 3 months. Even assuming that the medication negatively affected the biofilter, this seems to be taking a really long time and I am concerned about some long-term health issues with the fish since I am not sure how high above 4ppm Nitrites really are at this point. I did watch the one presentation on 'stalling' a cycle with very elevated Nitrites levels be it also seem to be fairly impossible to do based on the general feedback within R2R.

So my question now is, is this just taking longer because I am going with a bare bottom tank and things just need to play out? Is there something I can do to increase the biofilter and drop Nitrites? The tank is currently going through an 'ugly phase' from the natural sunlight it gets in the morning with some algae that my CUC and Tang have been going to town on. Am I missing something here or is this the classic situation of just staying patient even after around 5 months of a cycle?

What filtration are you using, and do you have a skimmer?