High post-cycle nitrates and CUC

[Barry_Cuda]

I've been doing some searching here and on the interwebs on this topic, and haven't found a clear answer, so I thought I'd post a thread and see what people have to say.

My 32 has just finished cycling - it passed the "process 2ppm ammonia in 12 hours" check a couple days ago. My plan is to add about half the CUC and put the first couple fish in quarantine this Thursday. But I'm concerned about nitrates. I cycled with uncured live rock and my nitrates are super high - my crappy API test kit is showing at the very top of the scale even after a 40% water change this morning. I plan to do another big water change or two between now and adding CUC, but I'm still concerned that the nitrates being so high may be a problem for the inverts. As mentioned, I did some searching and found a wealth of differing opinions as to whether high nitrates are problematic for snails and hermits. What says the R2R community? Is it safe to add some astraea snails and hermits with nitrates so high, or do I need to focus on getting those levels down first? Part of why I want to get the CUC into the tank soon is because with nutrient levels that high and the tank so new, I'm expecting an algae explosion at any time and I want to get some grazers in there to help keep it under control.

 

[Dsnakes]

I wouldn’t worry too much about it bothering the inverts. I probably wouldn’t add them yet though. How long has it had water in it?

 

[Barry_Cuda]

I wouldn’t worry too much about it bothering the inverts. I probably wouldn’t add them yet though. How long has it had water in it?

It'll be just over three weeks on Thursday, when I have planned to add these. If that's too soon - what should I be watching for, other than the tank processing ammonia quickly?

 

[Dsnakes]

It'll be just over three weeks on Thursday, when I have planned to add these. If that's too soon - what should I be watching for, other than the tank processing ammonia quickly?

Ok. You can add a few. Just keep in mind a lot of the algae will likely be new tank uglies and not last too long.

There is a tendency to throw in too much CUC and they will starve out fast.

 

[Barry_Cuda]

Yep! I'm only adding a few at first, then a few more a couple weeks later. Last thing I want is a bunch of dead snails rotting away where I can't find them

Thanks for your input! I love R2R so much. It's always easy to find answers from experienced people here, and I learn SO MUCH just from reading other people's threads and seeing what people have had to say.

 

[User]

As long as it’s just snails, it’ll be good. They aren’t particularly sensitive to nitrates. Some hermits seem to tolerate it too, but I’d try to get below 40-60 for most crabs.

Urchins need less than 10. More then 10-15, they start to shed spines, and after 20-ish, they puke out their insides.

Anemones- drop the nitrates down low. Your tank won’t be ready for them for about 4-6 months due to other reasons so don’t try adding any before then.


I have 20 hermits and 120 assorted snails in QT right now for my 180. December 18th, they are all going in the Tank regardless of algae status. That’s what algae wafers and Nori are for. That’s what they’ve been eating for the previous 76 days in QT, so they’ll eat it just fine in the DT. I’d rather get them churning the sand bed in my DT as opposed to sitting in a QT tank.

 

[User]

You’re risking infecting your DT with ich and velvet parasites unless you QT them in a fishless tank for at least 76 days.

I QT everything wet that goes into my tank- it’s not worth the risk to the livestock, or the cost of restocking and dealing with it later

 

[cromag27]

let’s back up here. although inverts may be able to tolerate high no3, what they don’t like is a drastic change in no3 from one tank to another, any parameter for that matter. i personally would feel more comfortable at <20ppm before adding anything. you should be able to accomplish that with one or two more giant water changes, just like you planned.

 

[Barry_Cuda]

let’s back up here. although inverts may be able to tolerate high no3, what they don’t like is a drastic change in no3 from one tank to another, any parameter for that matter. i personally would feel more comfortable at <20ppm before adding anything. you should be able to accomplish that with one or two more giant water changes, just like you planned.

This makes sense. I think I'll plan for a couple more large changes this week before adding anything. Another poster had pointed out that I'm taking a chance by not quarantining the CUC and any other inverts, but the truth of it is that I don't have the space or outlets for a second quarantine tank, at least as things in my house are arranged right now. I think I am just going to have to assume that risk.

 

[cromag27]

This makes sense. I think I'll plan for a couple more large changes this week before adding anything. Another poster had pointed out that I'm taking a chance by not quarantining the CUC and any other inverts, but the truth of it is that I don't have the space or outlets for a second quarantine tank, at least as things in my house are arranged right now. I think I am just going to have to assume that risk.

most of us do not qt inverts. the risk is there but very slim. the most annoying thing for me is nuisance algae on snail shells but you can scrub them with a soft toothbrush if you see anything.

 

[teller]

In my opinion, at this stage, you need to choose and implement a method to control your nutrients (nitrate and phosphate). Can be macro algae, ats, organic carbon dosing, gfo, etc, etc.

 

[Barry_Cuda]

In my opinion, at this stage, you need to choose and implement a method to control your nutrients (nitrate and phosphate). Can be macro algae, ats, organic carbon dosing, gfo, etc, etc.

Already working on plans for that I plan to add a fuge basket and grow light to the second chamber of my BioCube to grow chaeto. I just don't have it all in place yet, so for now I'm left with water changes to reduce nutrients. Fuge equipment will be ordered within the next few days.

 

[lapin]

Water changes.
High nitrates, water changes
High phosphate, water changes
Low alk, water changes
Low cal or mag, water changes
Its amazing how easy it is to fix things with a bit of water and salt

 

[Lasse]

Have you check your nitrite? There is a risk that the tank not is totally cycled - - the process stopp before the second step NH3/NH4 b-> NO2 -> NO3. (ammonium/ammoniac->nitrite->nitrate) Why I propose this is because of NO3 in reality test NO2 (nitrite). The process include a step there NO3 will be converted to NO2 and the last step read of the NO2 levels. The waiting time and the colour scale is adapted to show your result in NO3 (nitrate). If there is nitrite in the sample - which often happens when a tank cycle - your nitrate measurement will be false. Some brands use a conversion factor of 50 - some as high as 100. It means that if you have 1 ppm nitrite in the water - your nitrate test will show between 50 and 100 ppm - even if the real value is 0. High nitrite readings is often connected with this measurement technique or high NO3 content in the tap water and no RO unit have been used.

Before you do anything - check the nitrite

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Barry_Cuda]

Have you check your nitrite? There is a risk that the tank not is totally cycled - - the process stopp before the second step NH3/NH4 b-> NO2 -> NO3. (ammonium/ammoniac->nitrite->nitrate) Why I propose this is because of NO3 in reality test NO2 (nitrite). The process include a step there NO3 will be converted to NO2 and the last step read of the NO2 levels. The waiting time and the colour scale is adapted to show your result in NO3 (nitrate). If there is nitrite in the sample - which often happens when a tank cycle - your nitrate measurement will be false. Some brands use a conversion factor of 50 - some as high as 100. It means that if you have 1 ppm nitrite in the water - your nitrate test will show between 50 and 100 ppm - even if the real value is 0. High nitrite readings is often connected with this measurement technique or high NO3 content in the tap water and no RO unit have been used.

Before you do anything - check the nitrite

Sincerely Lasse

Oh! I had this backwards... I'd read about this problem in another thread but what I thought I remembered was that test kits converted nitrite to nitrate, meaning a high nitrate level would throw off nitrite tests. I'm really glad you said something. I'd better double-check nitrites. I'm using RO, so any nitrite in my water is coming from the nitrogen cycle, but I'd better make sure before I put anything living into the tank.

 

[Barry_Cuda]

Yikes! Thanks for straightening me out on that, Lasse. Nitrites are reading a solid 1.0. Guess I'm not as completely cycled as I thought. Holding off on CUC until the nitrites are gone.

 

[Lasse]

Keep the light off until you introduce the CUC.

Sincerely Lasse