Hippo Tang still has spots after TTM

juicemanatx

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I’m doing a tank reboot which involved catching all fish and temporarily holding them until the display is cycled again with the new scape and sand. My fish were healthy other than Ich being in the system. Since I had to catch all the fish anyway, I chose to rid them all of Ich in the process. The last set of fish in QT I’m having trouble with.
They have been through a full TTM with 1 Prazi 24hr treatments, 2 Formalin Baths, and 1 full set of Metro, Furan, and Kana. During the observation after the last transfer I could still see spots on the Hippo Tang.

I consulted with Humblefish directly and he suggested a FW bath, there were still spots. So we decided to conduct one more transfer, with one more 24hr Prazi which just so happened to be 6 days after the previous, and I went ahead and did one more formalin Bath before the transfer.

The Hippo was spot free until 3 more days had passed. Spots again.... maybe I contaminated one of the transfers? Maybe this isn’t Ich? I’m not sure what to do next..

thoughts?



72321623-3363-4913-AA1A-2435618E0687.jpeg
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7BD04ABE-5045-4333-A0BB-F06555BB8E39.jpeg
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PBnJOnWheat

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back story

I’m doing a tank reboot which involved catching all fish and temporarily holding them until the display is cycled again with the new scape and sand. My fish were healthy other than Ich being in the system. Since I had to catch all the fish anyway, I chose to rid them all of Ich in the process. The last set of fish in QT I’m having trouble with.
They have been through a full TTM with 1 Prazi 24hr treatments, 2 Formalin Baths, and 1 full set of Metro, Furan, and Kana. During the observation after the last transfer I could still see spots on the Hippo Tang.

I consulted with Humblefish directly and he suggested a FW bath, there were still spots. So we decided to conduct one more transfer, with one more 24hr Prazi which just so happened to be 6 days after the previous, and I went ahead and did one more formalin Bath before the transfer.

The Hippo was spot free until 3 more days had passed. Spots again.... maybe I contaminated one of the transfers? Maybe this isn’t Ich? I’m not sure what to do next..

thoughts?



72321623-3363-4913-AA1A-2435618E0687.jpeg
E87DA1CB-9B61-4D13-98AA-A929EBBDB5D9.jpeg
7BD04ABE-5045-4333-A0BB-F06555BB8E39.jpeg
5A85EA15-6BC9-41BD-9C2B-D333DED6B273.jpeg
Definitely looks like Ich, fun fact Ich is always present in the water. I believe it is represent in all bodies of water but only takes hold when fish are vulnerable? Someone correct me if I’m wrong but I didn’t know this starting out and spent countless dollars and time trying to ‘rid it of ick’ but it’s always there, it’s more about distressing the fish, feeding, and creating a healthy environment for it to live in. Obviously if a fish gets an infection, and it’s extremely bad it can get to where there’s nothing that will help it. Past the point of recovery if you will. If it’s minor small spots I wouldn’t worry and just power feed, garlic juice, probiotic foods even if you’re super stressed and make sure the fish isn’t too stressed and let nature take its course. If not you could possibly take it into the fish store and see if they will fix it up. Hopefully that helps!!! Goodluck!!!
 
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juicemanatx

juicemanatx

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Definitely looks like Ich, fun fact Ich is always present in the water. I believe it is represent in all bodies of water but only takes hold when fish are vulnerable? Someone correct me if I’m wrong but I didn’t know this starting out and spent countless dollars and time trying to ‘rid it of ick’ but it’s always there, it’s more about distressing the fish, feeding, and creating a healthy environment for it to live in. Obviously if a fish gets an infection, and it’s extremely bad it can get to where there’s nothing that will help it. Past the point of recovery if you will. If it’s minor small spots I wouldn’t worry and just power feed, garlic juice, probiotic foods even if you’re super stressed and make sure the fish isn’t too stressed and let nature take its course. If not you could possibly take it into the fish store and see if they will fix it up. Hopefully that helps!!! Goodluck!!!
Definitely not true that Ich is always present. It dies without a host.
 

PBnJOnWheat

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Definitely not true that Ich is always present. It dies without a host.
Actually it’s a fact that saltwater ick is always present, maybe not in ur tank but in the wild they cope with the parasite.

 

Jay Hemdal

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Cryptocaryon, ich is not always present in every aquarium. That idea comes about because in some cases, when people don't quarantine their fish, they end up doing a sort of "ich management" without even knowing it. Then, 6 months later, ich flares up and they say, "see - its always in my tank". Ich-free systems can be created through proper quarantine.

I still see ich on this tang. Remember though, nobody can be 100% certain from just visual diagnosis, especially when looking at a photograph. In my cases like this, I have multiple microscopes, so I would do a skin scrape and be better able to identify the culprit.

I'm not a big fan of TTM as a complete quarantine process. I think it overstresses the fish due to excess handling, exposes them to poor living conditions (a bucket) and is based on purely experimental design. The idea that the timing is so set in stone for this parasite's life cycle just may not be true. Additionally, TTM has not benefit for Uronema, Neobenedenia or gills flukes, and I have a strong suspicion it doesn't work with velvet (I'm not convinced that it can't complete its life deep in a fish's gills).

If the spots are not wildly increasing in number, I would consider picking out one or two of them (use a photo perhaps?) and then watch them over 36 to 48 hours. If the same spots are in the same location for that period, it may not by Cryptocaryon at all. However, if the spots come ad go, and wax and wane in numbers, this is probably crypt.

Jay

p.s. the tang shows a bit of epithelial thinning, related to HLLE, but not as severe. I don't have a cure for it though...
 
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juicemanatx

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Cryptocaryon, ich is not always present in every aquarium. That idea comes about because in some cases, when people don't quarantine their fish, they end up doing a sort of "ich management" without even knowing it. Then, 6 months later, ich flares up and they say, "see - its always in my tank". Ich-free systems can be created through proper quarantine.

I still see ich on this tang. Remember though, nobody can be 100% certain from just visual diagnosis, especially when looking at a photograph. In my cases like this, I have multiple microscopes, so I would do a skin scrape and be better able to identify the culprit.

I'm not a big fan of TTM as a complete quarantine process. I think it overstresses the fish due to excess handling, exposes them to poor living conditions (a bucket) and is based on purely experimental design. The idea that the timing is so set in stone for this parasite's life cycle just may not be true. Additionally, TTM has not benefit for Uronema, Neobenedenia or gills flukes, and I have a strong suspicion it doesn't work with velvet (I'm not convinced that it can't complete its life deep in a fish's gills).

If the spots are not wildly increasing in number, I would consider picking out one or two of them (use a photo perhaps?) and then watch them over 36 to 48 hours. If the same spots are in the same location for that period, it may not by Cryptocaryon at all. However, if the spots come ad go, and wax and wane in numbers, this is probably crypt.

Jay

p.s. the tang shows a bit of epithelial thinning, related to HLLE, but not as severe. I don't have a cure for it though...

yeah, I’ve had him for years and he’s kinda always had a bit of HLLE. I think he had one major episode of it and it just scar Humblefish seems to think it could be Viral Lesions or Bacterial Turfs which may just go away on their own. I’m going to monitor him and possibly start over. The incorporated Formalin baths and Prazi treatments into the TTM schedule is designed to rid uronema, flukes, worms, and velvet. Straight from humblefish’s website.

 
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juicemanatx

juicemanatx

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Spots were in the exact same places and more of them today. I see some on the other fish now too. I think something was contaminated during a transfer. I’m
Thinking I’m going to discontinue HOB filters and use the bubbler style ones instead. That’s the only factor I can think of where stuff may not have dried all the way after cleaning.
 

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Spots were in the exact same places and more of them today. I see some on the other fish now too. I think something was contaminated during a transfer. I’m
Thinking I’m going to discontinue HOB filters and use the bubbler style ones instead. That’s the only factor I can think of where stuff may not have dried all the way after cleaning.
Yeah - I‘d definitely suspect the HOB filter. It could be velvet, too, if it were, odds are all the fish would be dead by now.

You really shouldn’t need the HOB filter for TTM since the fish are only in the water for a couple of days. If you’re concerned about ammonia, add some Prime to the water.

One other possibility - where did you get the new saltwater you used during the transfer? If your display tank has ich in it and you got water from it Then you could have seeded then ‘clean’ tank you transferred the fish to and inadvertently sabotaged the process.
 
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juicemanatx

juicemanatx

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Yeah - I‘d definitely suspect the HOB filter. It could be velvet, too, if it were, odds are all the fish would be dead by now.

You really shouldn’t need the HOB filter for TTM since the fish are only in the water for a couple of days. If you’re concerned about ammonia, add some Prime to the water.

One other possibility - where did you get the new saltwater you used during the transfer? If your display tank has ich in it and you got water from it Then you could have seeded then ‘clean’ tank you transferred the fish to and inadvertently sabotaged the process.
I’ve had these fish for years so velvet isn’t likely. I have triple checked my display water and tangs and see nothing. All have been through recent QT. I watch the purple tang and powder blue who would for sure show Ich easily if it was there and there’s none. The water I’m using for the transfers are freshly made saltwater, never been in a tank before. So far so good on them today. I transfer them tonight for the first time and did some Prazi last night.
 
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juicemanatx

juicemanatx

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Update for any that care to know. Happy to report that after redoing the entire Hybrid TTM a 2nd time and using the bubbler style filters instead of the HOB, fish are still clear on day 4 of observation. Last time The hippo was covered on day 4. I think we’re good.
 

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back story

I’m doing a tank reboot which involved catching all fish and temporarily holding them until the display is cycled again with the new scape and sand. My fish were healthy other than Ich being in the system. Since I had to catch all the fish anyway, I chose to rid them all of Ich in the process. The last set of fish in QT I’m having trouble with.
They have been through a full TTM with 1 Prazi 24hr treatments, 2 Formalin Baths, and 1 full set of Metro, Furan, and Kana. During the observation after the last transfer I could still see spots on the Hippo Tang.

I consulted with Humblefish directly and he suggested a FW bath, there were still spots. So we decided to conduct one more transfer, with one more 24hr Prazi which just so happened to be 6 days after the previous, and I went ahead and did one more formalin Bath before the transfer.

The Hippo was spot free until 3 more days had passed. Spots again.... maybe I contaminated one of the transfers? Maybe this isn’t Ich? I’m not sure what to do next..

thoughts?



72321623-3363-4913-AA1A-2435618E0687.jpeg
E87DA1CB-9B61-4D13-98AA-A929EBBDB5D9.jpeg
7BD04ABE-5045-4333-A0BB-F06555BB8E39.jpeg
5A85EA15-6BC9-41BD-9C2B-D333DED6B273.jpeg
THAT DOESNT LOOK LIKE ICH . IT LOOKS LIKE SKIN IRRITATION . NOW SAYING THAT I TRANSFER MY FISH THE WHOLE 8 WEEKS BC IF U GOT ONE LITTLE SPEC OF ICH WATER IN THE TRANSFER BUCKET OR TUB U HAVE TO START OVER . FISH SHOULD GO FROM TUBE TO FRESH WATER BOWL THEN INTO TO NEW TUBE. IF U DIDNT WASH YOUR HANDS AND DRY THEM U COULD HAVE TRANSFERRED ICH. IF USED NET TO TRANSFER U TRANSFERRED ICH ,IF U HAD CONTAINER TO TRANSFER FISH NEXT TO EACH OTHER U TRANFERRED ICH . NET SHOULD BE USED ONY IF IT SET IN BOILING HOT WATER AFTER LAST USE AND THEN DRIED BEFORE USE AGAIN . U SHOLD HAVE MULTIPLE NETS IF USING NETS .
 
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