HLLE + ??? Emperor Angelfish

[SheldonC]

I came across a terrible situation online finding a ~5" Emperor Angelfish with severe HLLE and body damage (specifically around it's mouth). The previous owner was going to simply euthanize, so I decided to give the fish a shot at life. It's currently in a 20 gallon long with some cycled rock. The bucket video was yesterday when I picked it up, the FTS is from today. I intend to do 10% daily WC to try and keep the water as clean as possible, but also to remove nutrients as I'll be "overfeeding" to try and kickstart its appetite.

The fish still isn't eating (I've tried spirulina mysis, angelfish-specific frozen with sponges, TDO pellets, and nori), though I'm not entirely surprised. Hoping it settles in over the next few days and I can start making progress.

Not looking for anything specifically, but any advice would be appreciated. More so documenting to see what kind of recovery it can make knowing it'll never be 100%.

 

[Jekyl]

Can you please provide another 30 second white light video via youtube? Try to be close and steady enough for us to get a good look and judge the breathing rate.

 

[SheldonC]

Can you please provide another 30 second white light video via youtube? Try to be close and steady enough for us to get a good look and judge the breathing rate.

Here is the video from when I retrieved the fish yesterday, but I'll work on getting another video in the tank:

The breathing is definitely more calm today, but by no means "good"

 

[vetteguy53081]

I came across a terrible situation online finding a ~5" Emperor Angelfish with severe HLLE and body damage (specifically around it's mouth). The previous owner was going to simply euthanize, so I decided to give the fish a shot at life. It's currently in a 20 gallon long with some cycled rock. The bucket video was yesterday when I picked it up, the FTS is from today. I intend to do 10% daily WC to try and keep the water as clean as possible, but also to remove nutrients as I'll be "overfeeding" to try and kickstart its appetite.

The fish still isn't eating (I've tried spirulina mysis, angelfish-specific frozen with sponges, TDO pellets, and nori), though I'm not entirely surprised. Hoping it settles in over the next few days and I can start making progress.

Not looking for anything specifically, but any advice would be appreciated. More so documenting to see what kind of recovery it can make knowing it'll never be 100%.

This is severe hlle and I'm more concerned about the rapid breathing.
What is tank ammonia level and nitrate and how are you testing?
Daily water changes will be helpful as will be addition of air stone for added oxygen. Also, remove rock which will absorb medication if used. Utilize a seeded sponge in the power filter for bio-diversity.
Foods: Assure proper diet such as Hikari angel formula, LRS Herbivore frenzy and Mysis shrimp. This HLLE will likely not restore but will prevented from further erosion

 

[SheldonC]

This is severe hlle and I'm more concerned about the rapid breathing.
What is tank ammonia level and nitrate and how are you testing?
Daily water changes will be helpful as will be addition of air stone for added oxygen. Also, remove rock which will absorb medication if used. Utilize a seeded sponge in the power filter for bio-diversity.
Foods: Assure proper diet such as Hikari angel formula, LRS Herbivore frenzy and Mysis shrimp. This HLLE will likely not restore but will prevented from further erosion

The breathing was like this when in the original owner's tank, too, and I would agree with the breathing concern.

Ammona is 0 and nitrates are ~10 per my API saltwater tests. I know it's not perfect, but it's something. I'm trying to avoid using any medication until I get a better idea if it'll even pull through the first couple days.

 

[Jekyl]

The breathing was like this when in the original owner's tank, too, and I would agree with the breathing concern.

Ammona is 0 and nitrates are ~10 per my API saltwater tests. I know it's not perfect, but it's something. I'm trying to avoid using any medication until I get a better idea if it'll even pull through the first couple days.

Getting a better video as asked will help with this. Best case is quick diagnosis and faster treatment if needed. Waiting it out can be a bad thing if something progresses.

 

[SheldonC]

Getting a better video as asked will help with this. Best case is quick diagnosis and faster treatment if needed. Waiting it out can be a bad thing if something progresses.

Here is a video I took just now after throwing a Prime on the tank:

 

[vetteguy53081]

The breathing was like this when in the original owner's tank, too, and I would agree with the breathing concern.

Ammona is 0 and nitrates are ~10 per my API saltwater tests. I know it's not perfect, but it's something. I'm trying to avoid using any medication until I get a better idea if it'll even pull through the first couple days.

Please use better test kits as API can produce false readings. Hanna and Salifert brands are best. I suggest for peace of mind taking a water sample to a store that does NOT use Api kits and have them test your ammonia and nitrates and compare readings- then you'll know where your levels truly are at

 

[vetteguy53081]

Here is a video I took just now after throwing a Prime on the tank:

Please do not add prime to the tank. Despite its claim, it does NOT remove ammonia - Water changes do and is a water conditioner when mixing or adding new water

 

[SheldonC]

Please do not add prime to the tank. Despite its claim, it does NOT remove ammonia - Water changes do and is a water conditioner when mixing or adding new water

It's not prime IN the tank, it's an AI Prime ON the tank for lighting.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Here is a video I took just now after throwing a Prime on the tank:

Nothing different with this video- Its sever HLLE and likely due to poor water quality, high use of carbon, poor (elevated nitrate and ammonia) and inadequate/poor diet. It is not life threating in any way but offers secondary infection in some cases.
Maintaining GOOD water quality and diet are often the fixes and with severe cases, some healing.

 

[vetteguy53081]

It's not prime IN the tank, it's an AI Prime ON the tank for lighting.

LOL - There are THREE primes in this hobby, thats right. The other is priming a pump

 

[SheldonC]

Nothing different with this video- Its sever HLLE and likely due to poor water quality, high use of carbon, poor (elevated nitrate and ammonia) and inadequate/poor diet. It is not life threating in any way but offers secondary infection in some cases.
Maintaining GOOD water quality and diet are often the fixes and with severe cases, some healing.

Correct. As I mentioned, I got this fish from someone on Marketplace that was otherwise going to simply toss it. Figured I'd try and see what I can do.

 

[SheldonC]

LOL - There are THREE primes in this hobby, thats right. The other is priming a pump

HA! My fault though, I really should've add the whole "AI" part to begin. My bad!

 

[vetteguy53081]

Correct. As I mentioned, I got this fish from someone on Marketplace that was otherwise going to simply toss it. Figured I'd try and see what I can do.

I see that and you can only do your best

 

[SheldonC]

I see that and you can only do your best

Good excuse to splurge on a Hanna ammonia checker though. Silver lining perhaps? If it survives, it'll be going into my dad's 300 gallon FOWLR, so fingers crossed!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Good excuse to splurge on a Hanna ammonia checker though. Silver lining perhaps? If it survives, it'll be going into my dad's 300 gallon FOWLR, so fingers crossed!

To me - the rapid breathing is the primary concern. The HLLE is very severe and won't be able to be reversed, so focusing on the breathing is the first issue.

Not knowing the full history of this fish makes it difficult, but I see two probably diagnosis: The fish has gill flukes (see how the gill opercula protrude so much?) or the fish has a systemic bacterial infection due to the HLLE damage.

You could try a 5 minute FW dip, but that may kill the fish - when a fish has a severe fluke infection, knocking all of the flukes off the fish causes thousands of tiny holes in the fish's skin and they "bleed out".

 

[SheldonC]

To me - the rapid breathing is the primary concern. The HLLE is very severe and won't be able to be reversed, so focusing on the breathing is the first issue.

Not knowing the full history of this fish makes it difficult, but I see two probably diagnosis: The fish has gill flukes (see how the gill opercula protrude so much?) or the fish has a systemic bacterial infection due to the HLLE damage.

You could try a 5 minute FW dip, but that may kill the fish - when a fish has a severe fluke infection, knocking all of the flukes off the fish causes thousands of tiny holes in the fish's skin and they "bleed out".

Interesting observation, appreciate that! Perhaps I’ll order some PraziPro and then attempt a FW dip. At this point it cant get “worse” but I’m willing to try something to make an improvement!

 

[SheldonC]

To me - the rapid breathing is the primary concern. The HLLE is very severe and won't be able to be reversed, so focusing on the breathing is the first issue.

Not knowing the full history of this fish makes it difficult, but I see two probably diagnosis: The fish has gill flukes (see how the gill opercula protrude so much?) or the fish has a systemic bacterial infection due to the HLLE damage.

You could try a 5 minute FW dip, but that may kill the fish - when a fish has a severe fluke infection, knocking all of the flukes off the fish causes thousands of tiny holes in the fish's skin and they "bleed out".

I did a FW dip and so far the fish is still kicking. Time will tell how it really did, but I also put PraziPro into the water as well.

 

[SheldonC]

Additionally, I did do the FW dip in a darker bucket and didn't see anything on the bottom once it was done. Not to say it's not there, but it wasn't visible.