Hobby grade “quarantine” probably kills more fish than it saves.

Tamberav

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Diatom filters are hardly ever used any longer for some silly reason, I think maybe they are just to simple and old school so people would rather rely on High tech chemicals, UV etc.

If you want to remove parasites, for whatever reason, run a diatom filter.
Bada Boom.......In a few minutes all "free swimming" parasites are gone.

I think they... like large under gravel filters... are difficult to find these days. Searching diatom filer comes with with a lot of broken links and out of stock.

This can be charged with diatomaceous earth but it doesn't even tell you that on chewys website or much anywhere so majority of people won't know that. I only know cuz Humblefish told me :p


I wanted to try the reverse undergravel filter thing in my 80g but could not find one a footprint I needed.
 
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Miami Reef

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I think they... like large under gravel filters... are difficult to find these days. Searching diatom filer comes with with a lot of broken links and out of stock.

This can be charged with diatomaceous earth but it doesn't even tell you that on chewys website or much anywhere so majority of people won't know that. I only know cuz Humblefish told me :p

I purchased 3 of those diatoms filters and I used 6 tbsp per each filter. I think the tank is much clearer! It’s just that now I have microbubbles from the filters. I will need to update once I turn the filters off.
 

Tamberav

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I purchased 3 of those diatoms filters and I used 6 tbsp per each filter. I think the tank is much clearer! It’s just that now I have microbubbles from the filters. I will need to update once I turn the filters off.

Ya, I have been thinking about buying one for when I stir my sand bed. It seems very useful. Right now I swap socks and let the sock catch it but a diatom filter is obviously better for those tiny particles.
 

Tamberav

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Here is a good example of a QT tank off reefkeeping.com. I stumbled across it while looking at DIY undergravel filters (it uses one in this QT tank). It looks to be housing a $1000 wrasse :)

I probably would have done a shallower sand bed but those dead coral skeletons and all them diatoms may look ugly but make the fish feel more at ease I am sure.

1631290065523.png
 

Sleepingtiger

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Yes. Newbies lack experience. I generally recommend they buy from a QT vender because of this. We have several in the US! Let them do the hard work for you.

1. They don't have an aged old tank so they risk losing fish if they plop them. Nor do they have experience in picking out healthy fish at a LFS. A fish covered in spots might be obvious but they don't know the subtle signs. Many I have found don't know to ask to see if the fish is eating.

2. They don't have experience with QT and many somehow find the worst ways to do it (uncycled small tank with PVC with copper and a cheap "light pink vs slightly lighter pink" test kit or even no test kit). Do you want a nurse/dr to give you drug dosage based on eyeballing it? lol

My second recommendation if they want to QT is hybrid TTM and into a cycled observation tank with bricks and natural looking hiding spots of a good size (40 breeder is affordable space for most fish).

I guess my point is... there are options. If you lack space/time, you can get ones already QT for your new shiny tank. Otherwise there are ways to QT that don't involve lots of drugs and small tanks.

Option 3 would be to stick to hardy disease resistant fish that are feeding and look good (clowns, gobies, hardy wrasse, etc) until the tank is mature (years?). Beginners lack patience though...and probably why most don't make it past 3 years in this hobby.
A lfs i talked to guarantees their fish.. I talked to many people and everyone I know spoke very high of them. They deal with mainly hard to find fish. The fish they get eat, disease free and fat. Even tough fishes like achilles and regals. I called them the other day and asked about their quarantine process. They said they treat their fish for 2 weeks and it is ready for sale. According to what I read here, two weeks is just too short. What do you guys think?
 

albano

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A lfs i talked to guarantees their fish.. I talked to many people and everyone I know spoke very high of them. They deal with mainly hard to find fish. The fish they get eat, disease free and fat. Even tough fishes like achilles and regals. I called them the other day and asked about their quarantine process. They said they treat their fish for 2 weeks and it is ready for sale. According to what I read here, two weeks is just too short. What do you guys think?
Personally, I don’t believe that there is any LFS, anywhere, that does a real, complete QT
 

alton

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A lfs i talked to guarantees their fish.. I talked to many people and everyone I know spoke very high of them. They deal with mainly hard to find fish. The fish they get eat, disease free and fat. Even tough fishes like achilles and regals. I called them the other day and asked about their quarantine process. They said they treat their fish for 2 weeks and it is ready for sale. According to what I read here, two weeks is just too short. What do you guys think?
A fish store that at least QT's for two weeks is awesome in todays market. None around me have ever survived because people didn't want to pay the extra.
 

Sleepingtiger

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A fish store that at least QT's for two weeks is awesome in todays market. None around me have ever survived because people didn't want to pay the extra.
I think their price is actually ok.
They had a personifier for $800
Pyramid butterflies for $150
false personifier was $1000, but the fish was like 9"
Flame angle was $90
 

Paul B

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I think they... like large under gravel filters... are difficult to find these days. Searching diatom filer comes with with a lot of broken links and out of stock.
It seems you are correct. I just tried to find one and all I got was crickets. :(

What a shame, the best thing on the market for salt tanks. I still have an Under gravel filter though.

Luckily, I still have some diatom filters from decades ago. When they croak, and they are close because I keep modifying them, I will just build one.

 

Tamberav

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thanks... I will try this out. I have a spare 29g i can hook up. I have tons of live rock. I am about to start my phyto and pod production soon. Everything that goes into the display will be quarantined. What did you use for lighting?

The only thing I will do different from you is I might actually have to feed the CUC. I am getting a CUC for a 95g, so there will be a lot. Just might not be enough algae growth to support a large influx over night.

I bought a used 4 bulb ATI sunpower. It is the same type of light on my DT so corals don't get any light differences btw QT and DT.
 

Tamberav

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Personally, I don’t believe that there is any LFS, anywhere, that does a real, complete QT
A fish store that at least QT's for two weeks is awesome in todays market. None around me have ever survived because people didn't want to pay the extra.

We have a local one that does 28 days QT in a separate room and all. I hear very good things about them from locals and they are getting tons of business here. I don't use them though because the fish are certainly expensive and I am comfortable doing TTM myself.

We have a different LFS that does 2 week QT. Then several LFS that do no QT. It is a big city so I guess it works out.

Here are some photos I took of some of the fish for sale.

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1631297930367.png

1631297954529.png
 

BackToTheReef

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This might be a question for PaulB and Jay but why does it have to be either or? I don't live near the ocean to do Paul's method but I remember reading about his approach to gut bacteria and immune system health. If I remember right part of Paul's approach was feed all kinds of stuff to introduce beneficial bacteria to the gut of fish in our system (it's been a while, the house I bought has an electrical system that wouldn't support a betta bowl let along a reef tank of any size reliably).

I don't live anywhere near the ocean to do Paul's system completely but why not observe, condition, and eliminate everything you can through careful quarantine and then introduce foods like Paul suggests? Seems like a two prong approach. Maybe they are mutually exclusive and I just don't understand (and sorry if this was hashed out earlier, I only got through the first 5 or 6 pages of posts).

The system I would like to put together is going to have a fair amount of live rock so there is a good chance I get some bad to go along with all the good so why not try to stack the deck in the fishes favor?
 

albano

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We have a local one that does 28 days QT in a separate room and all.

We have a different LFS that does 2 week QT.
My problem with that is that if they get shipments every week, do they have separate systems for each new shipment, from each different supplier? What do they do to prep the QT system for the next shipment?
 

Sleepingtiger

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My problem with that is that if they get shipments every week, do they have separate systems for each new shipment, from each different supplier? What do they do to prep the QT system for the next shipment?
Why would they need different systems? If they keep their copper at therapeutic levels, any free swimming parasites should be killed before they have a chance to infect the host. Amirite?
 

albano

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Why would they need different systems? If they keep their copper at therapeutic levels, any free swimming parasites should be killed before they have a chance to infect the host. Amirite?
Is it a real/full QT if each week you add new fish to the partially ‘QTd’ old (last weeks shipment) fish?
 

ying yang

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Is it a real/full QT if each week you add new fish to the partially ‘QTd’ old (last weeks shipment) fish?
I guess would have problems of which fish been in for 1 week/2 week/3 week and if doing a copper medication for say 30 days then add a fish after 2 weeks then the copper medication would have to be reset and start back at day 1 would be my guess but i never used copper so wait for experienced copper users to reply but a dosage/duration should be used exactly as meant i would logically say ( otherwise any fish kept in copper at therapeutic levels could just be sold at any lfs when a buyer said " i will have that one" and fish not finished its treatment)
 

Tamberav

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My problem with that is that if they get shipments every week, do they have separate systems for each new shipment, from each different supplier? What do they do to prep the QT system for the next shipment?

From their facebook:
July 28: new saltwater fish list
Aug 25: new saltwater fish list

So exactly 28 days. Nothing new posted in between.

Seems they do one huge batch every 28 days.

There is likely no prep needed between batches since they use medication.

Some people only do 14 days in copper then into a new tank. I guess they are doing 28 (why 28 Idk) and then into a new tank. So it should be more than enough.

Again, I don't buy from them but it seems they are actually putting in some real effort.
 
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Sleepingtiger

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Is it a real/full QT if each week you add new fish to the partially ‘QTd’ old (last weeks shipment) fish?
As long as you keep the copper at therapeutic level and know how long each fish has been QT, it shouldn’t matter. Unless you’re telling me new fish are infecting the older fish even though the copper is at therapeutic level.
 

Lasse

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Personally - I would never by a fish that I know have been in high concentration of copper for 14 days. I prefer to buy my fish direct in the bag when the LFS get them. I adapt them in my refugium for two weeks and after that - into the DT.

Sincerely Lasse
 

Paul B

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Before I answer this, lets remember this is the 20th anniversary of 9/11 when thousands of Americans and some of my friends were murdered here in New York

I don't live anywhere near the ocean to do Paul's system completely but why not observe, condition, and eliminate everything you can through careful quarantine and then introduce foods like Paul suggests?
Living near the ocean is helpful but for most of the life of my tank I used ASW as I was near the sea but not close enough. I normally had some NSW in my tank but that has nothing to do with immunity.

The difference in my method is I don't think of parasites are harmful and want them in my tank just like they are in the sea.

They are a natural and normal part of a fishes environment like algae which people also like to eliminate.

A healthy fishes immune system has no problem with parasites and fish are supposed to eat parasites with every meal just as they do in the sea. Eliminating all pathogens is IMO harmful to the fish and if we do that, we eliminate the immunity.

Most people here don't believe that but most people here don't have an old, healthy fully quarantined system where the fish are spawning and only dying of old age because that tank doesn't exist. Fish don't live in that condition long enough to die of old age.

At least I have not found one yet on 7 forums over many years. But normal, natural healthy tanks where the fish have no problems with dealing with pathogens are immortal as diseases are concerned.

When people are treated for cancer (like one of my closest friends now) they have no immunity due to chemo or radiation. The doctors can keep them alive for a few years but eventually they all give up and opt to dying instead as the treatment is worse then the disease.

They can't go out or mingle with anyone as any "germ" can kill them. It is a horrible way to live and much better to be immune like we were designed to live.

I learned decades ago how to keep fish naturally and the fish have no problems unless we create them.
 

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