Hobby grade “quarantine” probably kills more fish than it saves.

[flashsmith]

Just put some horse dewormer in your tanks.. Apparently it's a cure all of some kind..

 

[Paul B]

I don't have any horses.

 

[MnFish1]

Before I answer this, lets remember this is the 20th anniversary of 9/11 when thousands of Americans and some of my friends were murdered here in New York


Living near the ocean is helpful but for most of the life of my tank I used ASW as I was near the sea but not close enough. I normally had some NSW in my tank but that has nothing to do with immunity.

The difference in my method is I don't think of parasites are harmful and want them in my tank just like they are in the sea.

They are a natural and normal part of a fishes environment like algae which people also like to eliminate.

A healthy fishes immune system has no problem with parasites and fish are supposed to eat parasites with every meal just as they do in the sea. Eliminating all pathogens is IMO harmful to the fish and if we do that, we eliminate the immunity.

Most people here don't believe that but most people here don't have an old, healthy fully quarantined system where the fish are spawning and only dying of old age because that tank doesn't exist. Fish don't live in that condition long enough to die of old age.

At least I have not found one yet on 7 forums over many years. But normal, natural healthy tanks where the fish have no problems with dealing with pathogens are immortal as diseases are concerned.

When people are treated for cancer (like one of my closest friends now) they have no immunity due to chemo or radiation. The doctors can keep them alive for a few years but eventually they all give up and opt to dying instead as the treatment is worse then the disease.

They can't go out or mingle with anyone as any "germ" can kill them. It is a horrible way to live and much better to be immune like we were designed to live.

I learned decades ago how to keep fish naturally and the fish have no problems unless we create them.

1. The cancer words of wisdom are NOT true. At all. Kids with childhood leukemia that have bone marrow transplants (where the immune system is totally destroyed) - many live long-healthy lives. many people that have had chemotherapy and radiation live long healthy lives. What you're saying is 'not true'
2. I have an autoimmune disease - and take immunosuppressants. I go out and mingle with people - and am fine.
3. Fish in the wild do not all survive cryptocaryon or velvet.
4. There is no proof whatsoever that clams, etc contain any or all of the parasites or bacterial disease you claim to want. Many people have reminded you repeatedly that freezing kills parasites.

My guess is you have no CI in your tank actively - for a number of reasons - but it has nothing to do with adding bacteria or clam feeding.

And I'm glad that people still remember September 11 and the people that lost their lives senselessly that day.

 

[MnFish1]

Just put some horse dewormer in your tanks.. Apparently it's a cure all of some kind..

1. Ivermectin has been used in reef tanks - for various worms, etc. With varied success
2. Ivermectin has been used in people for various illnesses/parasites for decades.

 

[Paul B]

1. The cancer words of wisdom are NOT true.

Yes it is.

2. I have an autoimmune disease - and take immunosuppressants. I go out and mingle with people - and am fine.

So does my wife, both of you are not fine

3. Fish in the wild do not all survive cryptocaryon or velvet.

Yes they do, mostly

And I'm glad that people still remember September 11 and the people that lost their lives senselessly that day.

So am I.

That is all I will say about these topics as I am tired of going over it. Those are your opinions so good luck with them.
Have a nice day

 

[MnFish1]

Yes it is.

So does my wife, both of you are not fine

Yes they do, mostly

So am I.

That is all I will say about these topics as I am tired of going over it. Those are your opinions so good luck with them.
Have a nice day

Actually they are scientific facts. Most people with cancer are elderly - some people die especially of certain kinds (those would be the same as 'your fish dying of old age'). Some were going to die anyway. The point is - children that get cancer - and high doses of chemotherapy are not destined for a life of problems - you're wrong.

Most fish that get CI in a tank survive also. (just like in the wild). You're wrong. (and they survive whether they have been quarantined or not).

I like your stories and respect your experience. But on occasion, what you say is not factual.

 

[Neptune 555]

I actually wake up at night when I have fish in QT to check on them! 2 - 3 times a night! Adding fish is so stressful.... Luckily b/c my fish don't die I only do this once every 5 or 10 years. I agree with the premise that hobby grade QT kills more fish. The ammonia and tank in a QT is just not as stable.

I do a hybrid approach after hours / years of obsessing on this topic.

I believe my tank is ich free. If this were not the case I would just do the Paul B system! A hobby is supposed to be FUN.
* All fish have done TTM (NO MEDICATION b/c none showed signs of illness. If a fish were sick I would just keep feeding it yummy food b/c copper and the right test kits along w/ prazi is how I have killed the most fish)
* 2 years ago I had a power outage for 24 hours. When I caught it one pygmy angel passed, my blue tang was upside down breathing heavy, and my yellow tang was lying on its side in the sand - I thought dead. NO signs of ich on anyone. Very stressful event!

Current QT process:
1. 2 X 20 gallon tank, HOB filter, seeded media from DT. I add LR from my DT that I sacrifice for 70 days...b/c it does not go back into DT. PVC pipes for more hiding space
2. I add a few fish at a time b/c it is too much work for 1 fish.
3. I feed live worms and clams and frozen food in QT
4. I do TTM

When I add them to the DT I do it near light out at night and place them in an acclimation tank. The next day I let them out of the acclimation box.

@Paul B I think the secret is in your sand, aged rocks and the fact that you did always have some NSW. I started my first tank 20+ years ago with LR from the ocean - marshal islands/Tonga. The box was shipped to Logan airport where I picked it up and. started my 50 gallon FOWLR. That rock is by FAR the best rock I have. THEN when I started my second tank I purchased dead b/c I was being environmentally friendly. The dead rock is just not as good as the LR and this is years later. At this time I have an explosion of BTA's. One curious thing I have noticed as I was removing the BTA's is that 90% of the BTA are on my OLD LR. Only a few of the BTAs are on the dead rock. And who knows the BTA might be moving until it finds a piece of LR.... Now the dead rock as colored up... but it still is NOT the same.

I think if you gave newbies your sand / rock @Paul B to jump start their tanks they would have success.

 

[Neptune 555]

In fact... If I knew someone starting the salt water hobby.. I would give them some of my live rock and sand. I think that is where the stability lives. New tanks are just not stable.... DISease wins in an unstable tank.

 

[Paul B]

@Paul B I think the secret is in your sand, aged rocks and the fact that you did always have some NSW.

Maybe.

I think if you gave newbies your sand / rock @Paul B to jump start their tanks they would have success.

If anyone wants some, I will give it to them. But then they will worry about ich, velvet, brokynella (whatever that is) and bubonic Plague.

 

[MnFish1]

Maybe.


If anyone wants some, I will give it to them. But then they will worry about ich, velvet, brokynella (whatever that is) and bubonic Plague.

I would be very interested in seeing a parasite/pathogen analysis from Aquabiomics. My guess is that none of those things are in your tank. It would be interesting to know

 

[Wyvern]

I agree, many people kill more fish than save.

This is why I got all vendor quarantined fish.

It's not a 100% guarantee it will be pest free, but why start with already sick fish?

If it was a perfect world, I would get quarantined fish, and observe them in a cycled QT system and treat if needed.

 

[Koigula]

I would say industry is at fault catering to people wanting a deal. Here you go! 50% off...

There are aquarium stores you just should not buy fish from let alone walk into. They would be out of fish in 2-3 weeks if they did not replenish. Most local stores all use the same vendor. I call these the dead fish people.

TSM should have a brisk business and have copy cats everywhere if hobbyists really cared about healthy fish. They just do not.

Others have stellar records. The old ReefKeepers in Clayton/Raleigh was amazing for healthy fish.

 

[brandon429]

ham sandwich, nachos, heckuva lunch date.