Hot Take? Should new reefers be 'formally educated' before buying livestock?

Should new reefers be 'formally educated' before buying livestock? Why or why not?

  • Yes. (Please explain!)

    Votes: 70 39.5%
  • No. (Please explain!)

    Votes: 82 46.3%
  • Other. (Please explain!)

    Votes: 25 14.1%

  • Total voters
    177

Gundy

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A requirement should not be mandated, but people should exersize personal responsibility and seek education beforehand

I agree. This is the problem with many new reefers getting into the hobby. Many purchase a tank without any research or planning. Many set up tanks that are not capable of sustaining fish long term.

I have been planning my reef tank for over a year and have countless hours of research. There are too many fish that die needlessly by uninformed and careless beginners getting into the hobby. I wish there was some sort of mandated education but that will never happen.
 

Reefering1

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I agree. This is the problem with many new reefers getting into the hobby. Many purchase a tank without any research or planning. Many set up tanks that are not capable of sustaining fish long term.

I have been planning my reef tank for over a year and have countless hours of research. There are too many fish that die needlessly by uninformed and careless beginners getting into the hobby. I wish there was some sort of mandated education but that will never happen.
I think I spent a year and a half studying before I ever had water in mine. I bought a bare 180g tank thinking, "i can build this strand/ canopy and get it running with a couple thousand". (Boy was I wrong.) I had to learn and decide everything from the ground up. I still made many mistakes. But not like some of the stuff i see here:anguished-face: even more, I spend most time reading- trying to bedhead of the next problem
 

bob88884

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I think it would be very difficult to educate everyone before buying the livestock. I don't think an LFS could do that. It would have to be something online like maybe everyone is required to post their tank info and experience level online (maybe on R2R ;)), and people knowledgeable in the hobby would have to verify that they're okay with getting certain livestock. That's the only way I can see it being done, as LFSs may give wrong information just to make sales.
I like your idea of the experienced people approving or at least weighing in on what will work.
I am new( a few months), and knowing what buy that works with my experience of lack of, also what interaction the new livestock will have with the old, seems simple, but it is not.
 

Johnd651

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I'm the other. It's a yes, but I think it falls somewhat on the seller. Buyer should have a basics. Have the seller ask for a water sample before selling. Make it so that someone can't just buy the whole setup and livestock same day.
 

Reefer Matt

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I guess it also depends on how high you regard the tank inhabitants as animals. Insects are animals too, but we don’t require training to collect fireflies. So are coral and fish like dogs and cats, or are they like ants to you?
 

Gill the 3rd

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No I don't think there needs to be a formal education. Maybe back in the day I would have put the responsibility more on the shop owner to ask questions and educate the person. Nowadays with smart phones, there isn't really any excuse to not research a fish/coral before you purchase it. I remember starting off in the saltwater hobby and constantly googling fish while at the LFS to get a better understanding of there size/difficulty/compatibility/care requirements.
 

Cell

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It would be nice to have more seminars or classes widely available and ideally free, but there should be no mandate on such a thing unless applied to pet ownership of all species, not just fish.
 

Tamberav

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Not fish but LFS could do better but I know they are sometimes struggling

I would be in favor of breeders of cats and dogs requiring a license to sell/for profit and find associates without one.

Free or dropping off at a shelter would be no fines, don’t want to encourage people dispose or dump animals.

I just want to discourage idiots from buying animals to breed with the intention of a quick buck. You know, the kind that are not out to better a breed, get the animals vet checked or health tested or even get the pups/kittens their first shots.
 

Cell

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Great point by Tamberav about LFS doing better. I'll further it and say vendor certification would make a lot more sense than individual/customer requirements.
 

Solo McReefer

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I thought it would be high

Not that high tho

43% of people here think they have the right to tell other people what to do

And what they do with their stuff
 

Sadie15

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i answered no to this. i don't think formal training is needed, but research/questions should be asked on reefing forums or google searches before diving in. there's a lot of info out there

I did ask my LFS how they approach someone getting into the hobby and buying X fish because they WANT it. This was my conversation with them......if someone were to come in and say they wanted THIS fish. Do you ask them more about their set up before selling said fish? You know the requirements that that fish needs in order to thrive in the tank and the buyer may not. I understand you are in it to make money, but there has got to be some concern for the fishes well being. no? the sales girl said they sometimes ask, but i call BS on that.

Granted, I know what i'm looking before i go into the LFS, so i don't expect anyone to ask me about my tank specifics before selling me the fish. I have been asked one or two times, but it's rare.

Although that didn't answer the question, this will. I think that the new reefers, as well as experienced, needs to be educated before buying. Unless it's only money, and it's only a fish, then education means nothing. if it dies, oh well. they'll waste a few bills, and kill a few fish before leaving the hobby wondering why it didn't work out.

i try to research the requirements of every piece of livestock that goes into my tank. I do all I can to avoid a disaster. whether it be fish dying/fighting, etc. a little research goes a long way. our research may not always hold true once fish is in our tanks, but at least we didn't go into it blind.

this is a lot of rambling, but in a nut shell, my answer is no. :beaming-face-with-smiling-eyes:
I’m new to the hobby and love wrasses. I eventually want to get a leopard wrasse. My LFS helped me with picking a tank size, went through the types of sand, showed me what I needed to start a refugium, and even looked at my stock plan to determine roughly where in my tank’s development the leopard wrasse could potentially be added. Currently my tank only has a clown, bristle tooth tang and some snails but I’m glad they didn’t just go ‘no, you can’t have a leopard wrasse newb’
 

tbrown

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Reef keeping is not for the faint of heart, and some of us get in way over our heads and may not realize it until we have livestock in distress or dying. There is no doubt that new reefers should always do basic research on starting a tank and maintaining the health of the animals we keep, but is that enough? Let's talk about it...

Primary Question:

Should new reefers be 'formally educated' (classes, certifications, etc.) before buying livestock?

Secondary Questions:
  • What are some logistical and practical barriers to this?
  • Do you think this would hinder new people from joining the hobby?
  • Do you think this would aid in protecting and maintaining ethics in animal care?
  • Can you think of some positive and negative outcomes of requiring a formal education before buying livestock?
This is a question out of pure curiosity. Please remember our Terms of Service when agreeing to disagree. :)
More importantly I think the LFS should be properly educated before selling livestock as often they're the problem. If the LFS isn't educated, how can I trust them to sell me the livestock? I've had discussions (bordering on arguments) with someone trying to sell me stuff when he had no clue what he was selling. Correcting me because he read a tag and knows what he has.

Stupid example: Astrea snails being sold as Turbos or Ceriths. Ninja Star snails being sold as Nassarius...

I've also seen someone trying to sell a 10 gallon tank to a customer he had just bagged an Oscar for. "Yeah, this tank is fine. Look, we keep them in a 5 gallon."

I understand the whole buyer beware and making sure we're educated but part of that responsibility needs to fall on th salesperson as well.
 

Reefering1

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Perfect example...
 

tbaum101

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Reef keeping is not for the faint of heart, and some of us get in way over our heads and may not realize it until we have livestock in distress or dying. There is no doubt that new reefers should always do basic research on starting a tank and maintaining the health of the animals we keep, but is that enough? Let's talk about it...

Primary Question:

Should new reefers be 'formally educated' (classes, certifications, etc.) before buying livestock?

Secondary Questions:
  • What are some logistical and practical barriers to this?
  • Do you think this would hinder new people from joining the hobby?
  • Do you think this would aid in protecting and maintaining ethics in animal care?
  • Can you think of some positive and negative outcomes of requiring a formal education before buying livestock?
This is a question out of pure curiosity. Please remember our Terms of Service when agreeing to disagree. :)
Depends on your definition of "formally". They definitely SHOULD be educated but if you mean take something like a drivers Ed class, then no. Too many people just go talk to their LFS and buy whatever. So many people online asking things that there is really no excuse not to know. The most basic of things that give away the fact that they haven't read the first thing beyond how to do the most basic of a cycle. I'm by no means an expert but I watched a couple of hours a day of videos for about 2 months before I put water in a glass box. Anyone who gets into this should have the respect of life enough to educate themselves on the basic issues that will happen and what to do when they do.
 

Gill the 3rd

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Depends on your definition of "formally". They definitely SHOULD be educated but if you mean take something like a drivers Ed class, then no. Too many people just go talk to their LFS and buy whatever. So many people online asking things that there is really no excuse not to know. The most basic of things that give away the fact that they haven't read the first thing beyond how to do the most basic of a cycle. I'm by no means an expert but I watched a couple of hours a day of videos for about 2 months before I put water in a glass box. Anyone who gets into this should have the respect of life enough to educate themselves on the basic issues that will happen and what to do when they do.
Totally agree. With all the information online there is no excuse not to be educated. I also feel a lot of people go looking for the answer they want to hear and ignore the general consensus from everyone else. I will admit I've been guilty of that myself in the past.

Like you I researched this hobby for months before getting started, even though I had been doing freshwater for years at that point. I must have watched every BRS video multiple times lol. If I see a fish at the LFS that intrigues me and I know nothing about it, I whip out my phone and educate myself. It only takes a couple minutes.
 

PharmrJohn

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I guess it also depends on how high you regard the tank inhabitants as animals. Insects are animals too, but we don’t require training to collect fireflies. So are coral and fish like dogs and cats, or are they like ants to you?
Honestly? I treat every life form I come across with deference. Could be a cat. Could be an ant. I don't kill any of them just for the sake of killing it. And I wouldn't collect anything live without some proper knowledge base.

Which brings me to the question at hand. Yes, yes, yes. Perhaps not formal, university training, but definitely a well defined knowledge base is required. Too many people get into this hobby without knowing Jack. I was one of those at one point, so I have absolutely no issue calling people out on it (including myself). I just got lucky the last time as I KNEW I'd be successful. This time around, I'm studying for at least a year prior to starting again. And it's tough, cause I want a tank NOW! There. That's my humble opinion.
 

NoLarvatusplease

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I ask that myself about all pets. Seeing people with a dogs outside in the elements. People getting cats and leaving them outside. Getting a bird just to leave it in a cage and do nothing with it. Should people at least do research before getting into it? Yes. Some just see it and say I want. Not understanding it is a lot of work. Not just start it and look at it. And I mean all pets, not just the fish world.
 

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