How Difficult is a 20 Gallon VS a 55 Gallon To Maintain (Heard Smaller Tanks May Be Harder)?

BlueDamselReef

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Watched the video (great one btw!) but made me think of a couple questions if you don't mind me asking haha

1. You said you're STARTING with Instant Ocean but will be switching, why? I'm using Instant Ocean and wanted to stick with it cause it is cheaper haha
2. Do you still just buy distilled water or do you have an RODI (if no RODI why not?)?
3. How many lbs of rock do you (or did you?) have in it?

THANKS! :D P.S. that is a TERRIBLE video and I'll be doing a follow up video about why it's a BAD IDEA to do a "BUDGET" Tank! I've learned so much with all my different tank builds along the way (and that rock scape is horrendous too!) :D But no one starts as a pro and in this hobby you are continually learning and things are continually changing.

In a reef tank, it's best to use reef specific salt. The Instant ocean salt I started with wasn't infused with the added minerals for Coral. One of the reasons frequent water changes are vital in reef tanks is to supplement the minerals and nutrients being used up in the water by the Coral. In your fish only, Instant ocean salt is just perfect. But in the video, I was going to be keeping Coral in the tank so would be switching over to a reef/Coral specific salt.

I do not have an RODI because I've always only kept nano tanks. So it's easy for me to just buy pre-mixed salt water from my local fish store every week. In my 10 gallon tank, I'm currently doing 2 gallon water changes weekly and I just take my empty 2 gallon jug to the fish store and they fill it up for about $4. No mixing or RODI needed. For top offs when water evaporates, I usually use store bought distilled water like in the video, however my current 10g setup has basically no evaporation so I don't need to top off. I can also buy RODI from my fish store for about $0.50 per gallon if I wanted as well.

It is recommended that you do about 1 pound of rock per gallon so in a 55 gallon that would be about 55 pounds of rock. 20 gallon = 20 pounds of rock. This helps with biological filtration for your beneficial bacteria to live on.

In that video, I placed huge large boulders of rock, but you definitely want to break those larger pieces into smaller pieces and shape it better as well and glue/putty the rock together for stability! I was horrible at rock scaping but I'm finally getting the hang of it! :)


 
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JSkeleton

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Wallet in the trash because I went coral crazy! Lol :D

Maybe because of the size it cycles faster? I'm not sure. I've never cycle a 55 gallon! :) But it's definitely a waiting game and sucks staring at your empty tank for so long!
Haha makes sense! Some corals get pricey, but some also seem pretty budget friendly, too!

I honestly have no idea. The bacteria bottle says "7 Days!" and a lot of people online say theirs cycled in that with these bottles of bacteria, but I'm sitting here going on 5 Weeks now lol Staring at the empty tank so long has gotten me to the point of this thread (questioning the saltwater route haha), sheesh!
 
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JSkeleton

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THANKS! :D P.S. that is a TERRIBLE video and I'll be doing a follow up video about why it's a BAD IDEA to do a "BUDGET" Tank! I've learned so much with all my different tank builds along the way (and that rock scape is horrendous too!) :D But no one starts as a pro and in this hobby you are continually learning and things are continually changing.

In a reef tank, it's best to use reef specific salt. The Instant ocean salt I started with wasn't infused with the added minerals for Coral. One of the reasons frequent water changes are vital in reef tanks is to supplement the minerals and nutrients being used up in the water by the Coral. In your fish only, Instant ocean salt is just perfect. But in the video, I was going to be keeping Coral in the tank so would be switching over to a reef/Coral specific salt.

I do not have an RODI because I've always only kept nano tanks. So it's easy for me to just buy pre-mixed salt water from my local fish store every week. In my 10 gallon tank, I'm currently doing 2 gallon water changes weekly and I just take my empty 2 gallon jug to the fish store and they fill it up for about $4. No mixing or RODI needed. For top offs when water evaporates, I usually use store bought distilled water like in the video, however my current 10g setup has basically no evaporation so I don't need to top off. I can also buy RODI from my fish store for about $0.50 per gallon if I wanted as well.

It is recommended that you do about 1 pound of rock per gallon so in a 55 gallon that would be about 55 pounds of rock. 20 gallon = 20 pounds of rock. This helps with biological filtration for your beneficial bacteria to live on.

In that video, I placed huge large boulders of rock, but you definitely want to break those larger pieces into smaller pieces and shape it better as well and glue/putty the rock together for stability! I was horrible at rock scaping but I'm finally getting the hang of it! :)



No problem! Great editing in the vids I did see! That said, I seen your one video where you mentioned multiple fish dying off, I didn't notice, did you mention why that happened or you never really found out why?

Oh okay, great to know (about the salt), thanks!

Makes sense about the RODI. I guess you'd need less distilled water anyways at those sizes eh. Does your 10g have no evaporation cause of the lid you use? I noticed a lot of people have no lids or use mesh, but I have a glass lid as well and was also curious if that would slow down evaporation.

Ah okay, I guess I'm on the lower end then. Maybe that's why my cycle is taking so long? I only have 20lbs of the white dry rock and 8lbs of the purple Life Rock so like 28lbs total (it was starting to get expensive, especially with the 40lbs of arragonite).

My chunks of rock are similar and just leaned them together (wasn't sure if that was sketchy though lol). I seen most people using standard superglue?
 

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Ah gotcha! Is it typical for the Nitrates to go above 40ppm though? And if they do and 10% isn't enough, what do you do in that scenario?
For a small fish load, it is unlikely that your nitrates will go above 40. However, since you are starting with primarily dry rock, there is an odd chance that your nitrates will go up quite a bit.

Routine 10% weekly water changes can help if you start before the issue crops up. However, it depends on how much nitrates your tank produces per week. Say it creates a residual 20ppm nitrates per week; diluting it weekly by 10% will still spike your nitrates in a month or less. Whereas, if your tank only produces 2ppm nitrates per week, you can go a long time before nitrates become a problem; they might not ever become a problem.

Without a sump or aio chamber, your best option would be nitrate binding media in a hob reactor or the hob filter. With a sump or an aio chamber, filter socks or filter floss changed out twice a week will keep nutrients in check.

I feed heavy and change out filter floss twice a week. The last time I checked, my nitrates were 0.8ppm, and phosphates were 0.08ppm.
 

BlueDamselReef

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Looking forward to the answers. Based on research distilled water is more expensive and more pure through the process of heating and collecting vapor. Trace amounts can be found in RODI water but RODI systems are less expensive long term than purchasing distilled water. At this time I am paying about $1.25 per gallon for distilled at Winco.

I really enjoy this topic having owned 30 gallons to 175 gallon tanks. I always thought based on experience the more volume the increased buffer and less likely of dramatic "all of a sudden swings." If correct larger volume tanks might be less reliant on refugiums/sumps because such are basically extending the volume as well the natural eco system of a natural reef bed which larger tanks already "can" establish. I mean what is better: 1) a 60 gallon tank with 30 gallon refugium/sump or a 200 gallon tank without? I am asking and not implying I know!

Enjoy,
W.T.


Super agreed! :) Like I said, I can buy RODI from the fish store for about $0.50 per gallon and when I buy the gallons at the store they are over $1 as well.

An RODI unit would save you in the long run, I'm sure, and of course is super convenient to have at home, especially with bigger tanks so you're not lugging around 20+ gallons of water from the store to your house! I did it in that video once just to setup the 20 gallon tank but I wouldn't do it again and again! And there were definitely times that I'd go to the store looking for distilled and they were sold out which would be very frustrating! Lol

Also, fish store water isn't always reliable. Just last week I went to buy 2 gallons of saltwater and when I got home and tested the salinity (ALWAYS TEST BEFORE DUMPING IN YOUR TANK) they had given me RODI instead! Grrrrrrr lol
 

BlueDamselReef

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Haha makes sense! Some corals get pricey, but some also seem pretty budget friendly, too!

I honestly have no idea. The bacteria bottle says "7 Days!" and a lot of people online say theirs cycled in that with these bottles of bacteria, but I'm sitting here going on 5 Weeks now lol Staring at the empty tank so long has gotten me to the point of this thread (questioning the saltwater route haha), sheesh!

:D OMG PATIENCE! I promise it'll all be worth it! Who knows!? You'll probably wake up tomorrow and it will magically be cycled!!

Sending good vibes!!
 
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JSkeleton

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For a small fish load, it is unlikely that your nitrates will go above 40. However, since you are starting with primarily dry rock, there is an odd chance that your nitrates will go up quite a bit.

Routine 10% weekly water changes can help if you start before the issue crops up. However, it depends on how much nitrates your tank produces per week. Say it creates a residual 20ppm nitrates per week; diluting it weekly by 10% will still spike your nitrates in a month or less. Whereas, if your tank only produces 2ppm nitrates per week, you can go a long time before nitrates become a problem; they might not ever become a problem.

Without a sump or aio chamber, your best option would be nitrate binding media in a hob reactor or the hob filter. With a sump or an aio chamber, filter socks or filter floss changed out twice a week will keep nutrients in check.

I feed heavy and change out filter floss twice a week. The last time I checked, my nitrates were 0.8ppm, and phosphates were 0.08ppm.
So just sticking in some filter floss can help reduce nitrates and phosphates?
 

Acros

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So just sticking in some filter floss can help reduce nitrates and phosphates?
The basic idea is to use powerheads and keep all food particulates and organic waste suspended in the water column, which then flows in a sump or aio chambers through the weirs. A sump or aio will force all water and particulates to go through the filter floss/filter socks/filter pads (which get removed once you take the filter floss out). Hence removing the organic waste before it gets a chance to break down and form nitrates or phosphates. Typically sump turnover is 3-10x water volume per hour.

I don’t think a hob filter will be able to do the same regardless of how much water it can process. I might be wrong.
 

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Hmm interesting! So are you saying just stick to Freshwater? ;) haha No but in all seriousness, what have you learnt and preferred between the 2?
I love both, will never give up Freshwater, as my tank is a South American Cichlid tank that I love, and since I've spent 18 years in that hobby, will always have one.
20210613_203522.jpg

Having said that, Saltwater is a very bad addiction! We are in love with it! It's the 1st thing I look at when I get home, multiple times a day/night, 1st thing I inspect in the morning, and on and on...ups and downs but it seems like it's finally settling in, and it's absolutely fascinating! Like nothing ever. Haven't had anything ever that has craved more of my attention!
 

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No problem! Great editing in the vids I did see! That said, I seen your one video where you mentioned multiple fish dying off, I didn't notice, did you mention why that happened or you never really found out why?

Oh okay, great to know (about the salt), thanks!

Makes sense about the RODI. I guess you'd need less distilled water anyways at those sizes eh. Does your 10g have no evaporation cause of the lid you use? I noticed a lot of people have no lids or use mesh, but I have a glass lid as well and was also curious if that would slow down evaporation.

Ah okay, I guess I'm on the lower end then. Maybe that's why my cycle is taking so long? I only have 20lbs of the white dry rock and 8lbs of the purple Life Rock so like 28lbs total (it was starting to get expensive, especially with the 40lbs of arragonite).

My chunks of rock are similar and just leaned them together (wasn't sure if that was sketchy though lol). I seen most people using standard superglue?


Oooffff...I had a bit of bad luck in that tank with fish! First fish was sold to me improperly in Orlando by a new worker who just didn't know any better, and neither did I. It was a signal goby aka twin spot goby and those are very difficult to care for. I QTed him and ended up giving him to my local fish store when I saw he wasn't eating/ improving (he requires a special diet that I could not provide him with).

Not sure WHAT happened to the 3 stripe Damsel because those are super hardy fish. Could've just been a bad fish.

I think the court jester goby, I pinned him in the rock when I moved my boulder rocks around...rooky mistake. He liked to hide in the rock when I put my hands in and then he never came back out after I moved everything around.

And the mail in fish that arrived DOA.

Don't let that scare you off. That usually doesn't happen and was just some bad luck.

My 10g has zero evaporation because of the lid I have, yes. In the past, I've kept the glass versa tip lids, but they have some cons. The black bar in the middle blocks some of the lighting for Coral. So in the 20 gallon, I removed the black bar (kind of hard to do, but did it) but then it leaves a gap been the 2 glass panes and salt creep builds up and doesn't mesh well with my OCD :p There was also a big enough gap between the filter and the cover in the back for one of my fish to jump out. So for my 10 gallon, I decided to use an old school black hood, remove the lights it comes with, and the light bar I use fits perfectly where the stock light was removed. And, no salt creep. :) I'll explain and show this in a future video. Your glass lid will help to slow down evaporation, yes. But more importantly, keep your fish in your tank and keep dust and other airbornes out of the tank.

Superglue, yes! But it has to be superglue GEL... not the runny liquid stuff.


Hmmm that's interesting, about your cycle taking longer because you have less rock...I don't know for sure but sounds logical enough. I wouldn't say it has to be exactly 55 pounds of rock but you could probably benefit from another 10-15 pounds.
 

BlueDamselReef

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The basic idea is to use powerheads and keep all food particulates and organic waste suspended in the water column, which then flows in a sump or aio chambers through the weirs. A sump or aio will force all water and particulates to go through the filter floss/filter socks/filter pads (which get removed once you take the filter floss out). Hence removing the organic waste before it gets a chance to break down and form nitrates or phosphates. Typically sump turnover is 3-10x water volume per hour.

I don’t think a hob filter will be able to do the same regardless of how much water it can process. I might be wrong.

The HOB equivalence of this is going to be the sponge filter that will catch the particles and you rinse out every so often. You can also add filter floss and any other media you want into your HOB. The chamber won't be as big as an entire sump but it's the same concept, just in a more compact hang on back version.
 

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Interesting, so sump and protein skimmer are NOT needed? Why are they so highly recommended?

I have the Aqua Clear 70, think that's sufficient? That said, I also stuck on a 30 gallon HOB filter too cause I heard I needed more but I don't know if that's necessary or a waste of electricity/space?

I also have 2 Sicce Nano Stream 530gph powerheads one on each side. I had already bought a bunch of the BASIC equipment, I just started feeling regret the past few days and questioning if I should sell the saltwater stuff and revert to freshwater before my cycle finishes and I commit by adding livestock lol I'm just really worried to see RODI filters + salt + whatever else costs add up in a few months and being too much but by then being committed.
Stick with it...yes..it's $$$$$ but overall not terrible. I've learned a lot from people and of course R2R.

You can get a decent RODI system for under $140, but you absolutely need one.

Reef Crystal's Salt on Amazon is like $18.00 for a total of 50 gallons, they even had a sale the other day for the 160 gallon bucket for $39.00.

Life or Live Rock is $$$$ aragonite is some $$ but let it all cycle some, add your fish, then wait 4 months on coral, do 10% weekly water changes etc, you will be rewarded. The key is dont be in a hurry...trust me! Let your tank mature for months. I've set up multiple Freshwater Tanks for friends and family and in 4 months the cichlids are having babies...not so in Saltwater! Patience is key here. But if you do it right...you will have frustration no doubt, but ultimately you will have amazing glorious things to behold!! Its worth everything!!!

Just take your time and do it right!!

 

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I know many people will **** on Cannister Filter here, but I use one with 4 chambers.

Phosguard, Matrix Carbon, Chemi Pure Elite, Poly Pads, Filter Floss, Bio Balls etc...not the mess R2R says it is, and really only needs cleaning once every 3 weeks. I do 10% water changes every week, and after initial ups and downs, Tank is doing its thing now...looking great.

2 Chinese brand Wave Makers from Amazon at the top on back glass with app controls, 2 Siche Nano at bottom of left and right tank...and I'm even using a Fluval Marine 3.0 for lighting with app controls. Not terribly expensive at all. After the 6month mark, we are rolling.

I'll take pic in AM and show you. Everyone is asleep now, lights off!
 

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Right now, it's just 10% water changes weekly, and cleaning Cannister Filter every 3 weeks and maybe loading new chemical filtration into the Filter, scrubbing the rocks, Vac the sand bed. It's really easy now!
 

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I know many people will **** on Cannister Filter here, but I use one with 4 chambers.

Phosguard, Matrix Carbon, Chemi Pure Elite, Poly Pads, Filter Floss, Bio Balls etc...not the mess R2R says it is, and really only needs cleaning once every 3 weeks. I do 10% water changes every week, and after initial ups and downs, Tank is doing its thing now...looking great.

2 Chinese brand Wave Makers from Amazon at the top on back glass with app controls, 2 Siche Nano at bottom of left and right tank...and I'm even using a Fluval Marine 3.0 for lighting with app controls. Not terribly expensive at all. After the 6month mark, we are rolling.

I'll take pic in AM and show you. Everyone is asleep now, lights off!

You are FUNNY &thanks for the song!! :D Everyone **** on everyone here for EVERYTHING! Lol But what people forget is that there are so many different ways to successfully build and keep your aquarium. Just like raising kids... there are 100s of different parenting styles, diapers, cribs, foods, brands, teaching styles... and you have to kind of just filter it all out and find what makes the most sense and works best for you.

I was considering a canister filter for my 10g belive it or not, but the hoses were too big and fat for my little tank! :D
 

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So long story short, I feel like I got a bit too "trigger happy" with the idea of a saltwater aquarium, and have yet to buy any fish and feeling a bit of regret due to the costs of maintaining one (especially in this economy). I have a 55 Gallon cycling, but I also have a 20 Gallon I could swap to, which a smaller tank would mean less salt & burning through RODI Filters slower, which I would assume should cut costs by at least half, right?

But that leaves me with the question: Are 20 gallons much more difficult to maintain than a 55? I heard that smaller saltwater aquariums are harder to keep stable, is that true and between a 55 and 20, is there that much difference?

I think 20-30g is actually the perfect size tank for ease of care. I have had many sizes in over 15 years!

It’s just big enough to not swing all over and just small enough that water changes are easy should something go wrong.

The downside is you are more limited on fish.
 

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I have a 155 bowfront and a 40 gallon. I had more success with the 155 based on bigger area for lighting to cover and water stability has been better. Same maintenance on both just different results.
 
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I love both, will never give up Freshwater, as my tank is a South American Cichlid tank that I love, and since I've spent 18 years in that hobby, will always have one.
20210613_203522.jpg

Having said that, Saltwater is a very bad addiction! We are in love with it! It's the 1st thing I look at when I get home, multiple times a day/night, 1st thing I inspect in the morning, and on and on...ups and downs but it seems like it's finally settling in, and it's absolutely fascinating! Like nothing ever. Haven't had anything ever that has craved more of my attention!
Oh man, that is a great freshwater tank! How big did you say again?

That said, I can imagine being the same with a saltwater, ugh. Lol. If only I could find dirt cheap filters for RODI units then I'd be more at ease lol
 
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Oooffff...I had a bit of bad luck in that tank with fish! First fish was sold to me improperly in Orlando by a new worker who just didn't know any better, and neither did I. It was a signal goby aka twin spot goby and those are very difficult to care for. I QTed him and ended up giving him to my local fish store when I saw he wasn't eating/ improving (he requires a special diet that I could not provide him with).

Not sure WHAT happened to the 3 stripe Damsel because those are super hardy fish. Could've just been a bad fish.

I think the court jester goby, I pinned him in the rock when I moved my boulder rocks around...rooky mistake. He liked to hide in the rock when I put my hands in and then he never came back out after I moved everything around.

And the mail in fish that arrived DOA.

Don't let that scare you off. That usually doesn't happen and was just some bad luck.

My 10g has zero evaporation because of the lid I have, yes. In the past, I've kept the glass versa tip lids, but they have some cons. The black bar in the middle blocks some of the lighting for Coral. So in the 20 gallon, I removed the black bar (kind of hard to do, but did it) but then it leaves a gap been the 2 glass panes and salt creep builds up and doesn't mesh well with my OCD :p There was also a big enough gap between the filter and the cover in the back for one of my fish to jump out. So for my 10 gallon, I decided to use an old school black hood, remove the lights it comes with, and the light bar I use fits perfectly where the stock light was removed. And, no salt creep. :) I'll explain and show this in a future video. Your glass lid will help to slow down evaporation, yes. But more importantly, keep your fish in your tank and keep dust and other airbornes out of the tank.

Superglue, yes! But it has to be superglue GEL... not the runny liquid stuff.


Hmmm that's interesting, about your cycle taking longer because you have less rock...I don't know for sure but sounds logical enough. I wouldn't say it has to be exactly 55 pounds of rock but you could probably benefit from another 10-15 pounds.
Oh man, talk about bad luck for sure, ouff! That's all so unfortunate!

Interesting about the evaporation and lid! I have a glass lid but there's like a 1-2 inch gap on the back for the filters and all that, but I'd be worried that's big enough for fish to jump out from lol Not sure how to remedy that to be honest.

Oh no, what happens if you use the liquid stuff? I used that to super glue my suction cups back to my heater cause they kept falling off...
 

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