How Difficult is a 20 Gallon VS a 55 Gallon To Maintain (Heard Smaller Tanks May Be Harder)?

[JSkeleton]

Stick with it...yes..it's $$$$$ but overall not terrible. I've learned a lot from people and of course R2R.

You can get a decent RODI system for under $140, but you absolutely need one.

Reef Crystal's Salt on Amazon is like $18.00 for a total of 50 gallons, they even had a sale the other day for the 160 gallon bucket for $39.00.

Life or Live Rock is $$$$ aragonite is some $$ but let it all cycle some, add your fish, then wait 4 months on coral, do 10% weekly water changes etc, you will be rewarded. The key is dont be in a hurry...trust me! Let your tank mature for months. I've set up multiple Freshwater Tanks for friends and family and in 4 months the cichlids are having babies...not so in Saltwater! Patience is key here. But if you do it right...you will have frustration no doubt, but ultimately you will have amazing glorious things to behold!! Its worth everything!!!

Just take your time and do it right!!

I do have the RO Buddie but it's small and I was considering returning it (Amazon return policy) but the question is do I just scrap saltwater attempt or get a standard 10" RO system. That said, if I could find the filters for the 10" system dirt cheap, I would be a bit more at ease.

But so far it's like $15 CAD per Sediment which I'm understanding needs to be changed every 3-6 months, then I need a special Carbon cause I have chloramines in my city water and that's more pricey than normal Carbon so it's like $50 a piece and idk if that would need to be changed every 6 months or if I can stretch 1 year (I'd only be making like 50 Gallons a month), and then the membrane idk how long would last if it'd be 1 year or up to 2 cause those are like $75, and then if my TDS still isn't 0 then I'd need DI which is like $35 per unit and again that could burn out in 3 months or last me upwards to a year, I have no way to know for sure.

Then salt I was gonna go cheap with Instant Ocean but that's like $80 CAD per 160G which I figured for 10% weekly water changes I'd need 2 of those per year so $160/12 is like $13-15 per month of salt. And it all seems like small numbers on the surface, but when you break it down together as a whole, it's getting close to upwards of $60+ per month and THAT is what is scaring me. I REALLY want saltwater (that's why I got this far...I'm 5 weeks into a cycle that is stalled on Nitrites 2.0-5.0) but man...I've never felt so torn about something LOL

 

[JSkeleton]

You are FUNNY &thanks for the song!! Everyone **** on everyone here for EVERYTHING! Lol But what people forget is that there are so many different ways to successfully build and keep your aquarium. Just like raising kids... there are 100s of different parenting styles, diapers, cribs, foods, brands, teaching styles... and you have to kind of just filter it all out and find what makes the most sense and works best for you.

I was considering a canister filter for my 10g belive it or not, but the hoses were too big and fat for my little tank!

This. That's one thing that has discouraged me. Literally everything, someone has a different opinion on. And at one point it's like, okay I mean I get every system and person is different, but when you're trying to learn the foundational facts, it seems impossible to find among all the subjective opinions lol. In the last month I've been through it with everything from salinity, flow, UV, sumps, protein skimmers, how much rock, best way to cycle, filtration, lighting, etc. etc.. lol

 

[averagesteve]

This. That's one thing that has discouraged me. Literally everything, someone has a different opinion on. And at one point it's like, okay I mean I get every system and person is different, but when you're trying to learn the foundational facts, it seems impossible to find among all the subjective opinions lol. In the last month I've been through it with everything from salinity, flow, UV, sumps, protein skimmers, how much rock, best way to cycle, filtration, lighting, etc. etc.. lol

I thought about your situation last night since I was replying on some of your questions with what I personally would do, but really as you say everyone has a different opinion on everything so... just do it. You're always going to wonder what it's like having saltwater, you really want clownfish, so set up the 55g with whatever you think you can manage and try it out.

It's going to cost money, pets cost money, dogs and cats can be $100+ a month when you factor in food, toys, treats, vet bills and stuff. It's just the way it is. I saw you calculated at $60 a month isn't that bad, factor in electricity and whatever it could end up being over $100 a month or more, but money is just money, numbers on a screen in an account, a reef is a thing you can enjoy.

PS: don't take personal finance advise from me.

 

[GobyGuy]

^^^^ tagging on a little bit you’re never going to have $1,000 + (USD) in vet bills for fish, you can hospitalize (hospital tank) them at home!!

 

[JSkeleton]

I thought about your situation last night since I was replying on some of your questions with what I personally would do, but really as you say everyone has a different opinion on everything so... just do it. You're always going to wonder what it's like having saltwater, you really want clownfish, so set up the 55g with whatever you think you can manage and try it out.

It's going to cost money, pets cost money, dogs and cats can be $100+ a month when you factor in food, toys, treats, vet bills and stuff. It's just the way it is. I saw you calculated at $60 a month isn't that bad, factor in electricity and whatever it could end up being over $100 a month or more, but money is just money, numbers on a screen in an account, a reef is a thing you can enjoy.

PS: don't take personal finance advise from me.

Yeah, that is a fair point. BUT if it gets to be too much in a few months then what? Sell off the fish I guess and go freshwater? Lol.

I know it'll cost money, but honestly with our budget, we couldn't afford a dog or cat even if we wanted to lol Fish was always a cheaper option that was still a nice pet to have and I've always loved water related things anyways (my Wife too). That's the only reason I'm stressing over Salt VS Fresh right now lol I THINK it would be doable, but $60 would be pushing it. Keep in mind that's in CAD currency (not sure where you're from) but that's like $45 USD probably or 50 idk. REALISTICALLY $50 ($40-45 USD?) would probably be the upper limit that would be wise for us, with $30 ($25 USD?) being the ideal scenario.

The problem is I have literally no way to know how fast I'll burn through RODI filters. Some people are saying 2-3 months (which at that rate I don't think it would be doable for us any more), and some are saying 6 months (probably doable as long as that's just sediment + carbon and if membrane + DI could last longer, hopefully membrane closer to 2 years lol), some people say they've lasted 1-2 years on ALL the RODI filters. There's soooooo much uncertainty in that alone which is causing my uneasiness.

That said, you are absolutely right that if I don't do salt, I'll always wonder, because I grew up wanting to do saltwater but never ended up trying it cause of all that goes into it.

 

[JSkeleton]

^^^^ tagging on a little bit you’re never going to have $1,000 + (USD) in vet bills for fish, you can hospitalize (hospital tank) them at home!!

That is true! Though, being Canadian I'm kind of out of luck if Fish get sick haha There's this thing called "Supratect" that apparently is plant based that has apparently worked wonders for some people, but it's not really a "medicine" per sae.

 

[BlueDamselReef]

Oh man, talk about bad luck for sure, ouff! That's all so unfortunate!

Interesting about the evaporation and lid! I have a glass lid but there's like a 1-2 inch gap on the back for the filters and all that, but I'd be worried that's big enough for fish to jump out from lol Not sure how to remedy that to be honest.

Oh no, what happens if you use the liquid stuff? I used that to super glue my suction cups back to my heater cause they kept falling off...

Nothing is wrong with the liquid glue. But when you're gluing your rock work, the liquid glue won't hold as well because it will just seep into the rock. The gel is thicker and holds better.

 

[BlueDamselReef]

This. That's one thing that has discouraged me. Literally everything, someone has a different opinion on. And at one point it's like, okay I mean I get every system and person is different, but when you're trying to learn the foundational facts, it seems impossible to find among all the subjective opinions lol. In the last month I've been through it with everything from salinity, flow, UV, sumps, protein skimmers, how much rock, best way to cycle, filtration, lighting, etc. etc.. lol

Yep and everyone is so very passionate about their methods. I get it. You just gotta filter out the b s as best as you can. Again, just jump in and figure out your method as you go. Basics for fowlr is water, salinity 1.024 - 1.026, water circulation/ filtration, temperature 74 - 80 F and food! When you cut down to the basics, it's really very easy. Somewhere along the line it became kind of a competition of who's system has the best, top of the line gadgets. Think of cars and when guys wanna know what's under the hood... kind of the same thing here... what's under the hood of your tank?

They come see my tank and would be highly disappointed...HOB filter is running my system! Ha! But my system runs smoothly and simply just how I like it.

When it all comes down to it... it's just salt water, flow, and in a reef tank's case, lighting. That's all you need for a successful system.

 

[JSkeleton]

Yep and everyone is so very passionate about their methods. I get it. You just gotta filter out the b s as best as you can. Again, just jump in and figure out your method as you go. Basics for fowlr is water, salinity 1.024 - 1.026, water circulation/ filtration, temperature 74 - 80 F and food! When you cut down to the basics, it's really very easy. Somewhere along the line it became kind of a competition of who's system has the best, top of the line gadgets. Think of cars and when guys wanna know what's under the hood... kind of the same thing here... what's under the hood of your tank?

They come see my tank and would be highly disappointed...HOB filter is running my system! Ha! But my system runs smoothly and simply just how I like it.

When it all comes down to it... it's just salt water, flow, and in a reef tank's case, lighting. That's all you need for a successful system.

Great points again! I guess going back down to the core of it all is trying to figure out how much salt + RODI filters would cost me yearly and how to make sure I don't murder any livestock right off the bat LOL Cause if I do continue down the saltwater route and I ended up losing livestock early on, that may be enough for me to toss in the towel, sadly.

So far, learning saltwater has been bittersweet because on one hand, I feel like I've been studying to be both a biologist and hydrologist all at once haha and that in a sense has felt cool to learn some nuances about the water chemistry and all that in what makes up a good habitat for these creatures, but at the same time that can also feel incredibly overwhelming.

Also, the car analogy makes a lot of sense!

 

[BlueDamselReef]

Great points again! I guess going back down to the core of it all is trying to figure out how much salt + RODI filters would cost me yearly and how to make sure I don't murder any livestock right off the bat LOL Cause if I do continue down the saltwater route and I ended up losing livestock early on, that may be enough for me to toss in the towel, sadly.

So far, learning saltwater has been bittersweet because on one hand, I feel like I've been studying to be both a biologist and hydrologist all at once haha and that in a sense has felt cool to learn some nuances about the water chemistry and all that in what makes up a good habitat for these creatures, but at the same time that can also feel incredibly overwhelming.

Also, the car analogy makes a lot of sense!

Speaking of water chemistry, where are your parameters at? Annnndddd do you have a photo of your setup? I want to see!!

 

[Nano sapiens]

Great points again! I guess going back down to the core of it all is trying to figure out how much salt + RODI filters would cost me yearly and how to make sure I don't murder any livestock right off the bat LOL Cause if I do continue down the saltwater route and I ended up losing livestock early on, that may be enough for me to toss in the towel, sadly.

Umm, that could be a real problem if you easily get emotionally attached to your animals. As a beginning aquarist the chances are very good that you will loose some livestock and you have to be able to learn from the experience and try again if you want to stay in the hobby.

Even the most experienced reefers can and do loose animals to circumstances beyond their control and certainly to old age.

So far, learning saltwater has been bittersweet because on one hand, I feel like I've been studying to be both a biologist and hydrologist all at once haha and that in a sense has felt cool to learn some nuances about the water chemistry and all that in what makes up a good habitat for these creatures, but at the same time that can also feel incredibly overwhelming.

Also, the car analogy makes a lot of sense!

A lot of the nuances discussed here on the forums are not found in any beginner saltwater aquarium set up guide...and for good reason. In any endeavor, it all starts with learning and understanding the basics and once that is mastered, then there's time to begin musing on the more esoteric subjects that are interesting, but don't make-or-break a saltwater aquarium.

And I think the RO/DI thing is weighing too heavy. Some tap water sources are perfectly fine to use so look at that option first (especially since you want to set up a FOWLR). If your water is not appropriate, then you can buy RO or distilled from many supermarkets to get started (especially applicable if you set up the 20g) and decide on a RO or RO/DI home system if you decide to stay in the hobby.

 

[JSkeleton]

Umm, that could be a real problem if you easily get emotionally attached to your animals. As a beginning aquarist the chances are very good that you will loose some livestock and you have to be able to learn from the experience and try again if you want to stay in the hobby.

Even the most experienced reefers can and do loose animals to circumstances beyond their control and certainly to old age.



A lot of the nuances discussed here on the forums are not found in any beginner saltwater aquarium set up guide...and for good reason. In any endeavor, it all starts with learning and understanding the basics and once that is mastered, then there's time to begin musing on the more esoteric subjects that are interesting, but don't make-or-break a saltwater aquarium.

And I think the RO/DI thing is weighing too heavy. Some tap water sources are perfectly fine to use so look at that option first (especially since you want to set up a FOWLR). If your water is not appropriate, then you can buy RO or distilled from many supermarkets to get started (especially applicable if you set up the 20g) and decide on a RO or RO/DI home system if you decide to stay in the hobby.

Losing fish in general wouldn't be the problem for me, it's losing them early on after going through the headache of the initial setup between costs and work that would put me off and want me to just say forget it lol

There's no way I could realistically use tap water? How would I even know for certain what traces are in my tap water? Even if say my City water has no traces of lead or copper, how do I know my tap isn't producing it from my home pipes? As for buying distilled or RO water, it would get WAY too expensive compared to having my own RODI unit and paying for filters.

 

[JSkeleton]

Speaking of water chemistry, where are your parameters at? Annnndddd do you have a photo of your setup? I want to see!!

Well I only recently learnt that I should be checking ALK so haven't done that. pH is like 7.8, salinity is around 34ppt, Ammonia finally 0, Nitrites still 2.0-5.0, Nitrates probably 100+ again lol, Phosphates no idea cause no way to check (again didn't know I had to lol). Am I missing anything?

My profile pic is the tank so far (though it's with the blue light so maybe hard to see), I'll try and see if I have a better one. I know I posted a better pic somewhere on here lol

 

[Nano sapiens]

There's no way I could realistically use tap water? How would I even know for certain what traces are in my tap water? Even if say my City water has no traces of lead or copper, how do I know my tap isn't producing it from my home pipes? As for buying distilled or RO water, it would get WAY too expensive compared to having my own RODI unit and paying for filters.

Just trying to give you some options...

If you know that your municipal water isn't suitable, then it's obviously not an option. However, if it's good, but you don't know if your pipes might be leaching contaminants, then you can have a sample of your tap water tested to find out if it's suitable.

A 10% water change on a 20g is ~2 gal. RO/DI in my area is $.50 US/gal, so that would be ~$4/mo (weekly WCs). In 6 months that's $24. If you still want to continue in saltwater, then you could invest in a RO/DI unit.

Best of luck!

 

[GobyGuy]

Just trying to give you some options...

If you know that your municipal water isn't suitable, then it's obviously not an option. However, if it's good, but you don't know if your pipes might be leaching contaminants, then you can have a sample of your tap water tested to find out if it's suitable.

A 10% water change on a 20g is ~2 gal. RO/DI in my area is $.50 US/gal, so that would be ~$4/mo (weekly WCs). In 6 months that's $24. If you still want to continue in saltwater, then you could invest in a RO/DI unit.

Best of luck

+1 on buying from lfs. I still do and have for over a year. nano tanks make it so easy

 

[i cant think]

I mean, that makes sense but still, I’d be happy just with a couple clowns, skunk shrimp, and maybe a royal gramma, especially if a smaller tank would save on monthly/yearly costs for salt and RODI filters, I don’t know.

RODI runs through faster in a smaller tank. The faster evaporation on a smaller tank would result in a faster run down of water.
Keeping stable parameters is also harder to accomplish, this is due to corals/inverts taking out elements faster.

 

[melonheadorion]

having both setup right now, i will say no, with an asterisks.

i have a 20g and a 65 gal, both running side by side. if i had an issue that i had to correct by doing water changes, i could easily correct the issue in the 20g much easier, because i have to change less water. on a 20g, i could get almost 50% water change with 2 buckets of replacement water, but you can imagine with the 65g, 50% is around 6 buckets.

i will say that the water quality in regards to nitrates, seems to increase faster on teh 20g, whereas it isnt so much on the larger tank. i find myself having to do more frequent water changes on the smaller tank, but thats also because of filtration setup, is my guess. larger tank is on a sump and the smaller is on canister filter

 

[reef_1]

The faster evaporation on a smaller tank would result in a faster run down of water.

Isnt that depends on the surface area compared to the volume, ie shape rather than the size of the tank plus aeration method, I would think surface agitation, skimmer, airstone etc all adds to evaporation a bit.

A 1 gallon tank in the same shape as a 1000 gallon tank, both with no lid, I guess the 1000 gallon tank would lose more water in a day.

 

[JSkeleton]

Just trying to give you some options...

If you know that your municipal water isn't suitable, then it's obviously not an option. However, if it's good, but you don't know if your pipes might be leaching contaminants, then you can have a sample of your tap water tested to find out if it's suitable.

A 10% water change on a 20g is ~2 gal. RO/DI in my area is $.50 US/gal, so that would be ~$4/mo (weekly WCs). In 6 months that's $24. If you still want to continue in saltwater, then you could invest in a RO/DI unit.

Best of luck!

Hmm…I guess I see what you’re saying about tap, but even then, would it be safe? I posted a new thread where I posted my city water report (can post here if you want). Biggest thing I see is chloramines but I’d think Prime would be sufficient if the rest in the water is fine.

As for RODI water, that leaves out top of water though? I would get an RODI unit and might but my concern is how fast I’d burn through filters

 

[JSkeleton]

having both setup right now, i will say no, with an asterisks.

i have a 20g and a 65 gal, both running side by side. if i had an issue that i had to correct by doing water changes, i could easily correct the issue in the 20g much easier, because i have to change less water. on a 20g, i could get almost 50% water change with 2 buckets of replacement water, but you can imagine with the 65g, 50% is around 6 buckets.

i will say that the water quality in regards to nitrates, seems to increase faster on teh 20g, whereas it isnt so much on the larger tank. i find myself having to do more frequent water changes on the smaller tank, but thats also because of filtration setup, is my guess. larger tank is on a sump and the smaller is on canister filter

Considering more frequent changes on the 20g, doesn’t that even out then with the larger tank?