How do i get fin scrapes?

Jjd531

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Hi I recently had 2 tangs die from an unknown disease. I took fin samples from them very shortly after they died and examined them under a microscope and had some results. I now want to fin scrape a live fish and see if I can't find anything else. I don't believe the two tangs was a one off event and they were likely just more susceptible. If someone could maybe give me a tutorial or link to good information about getting samples from small live fish that would be very useful to me. Also if anyone can help identify anything, here are the pictures of my tangs fins scrapes. They looked eerily similar to oodinium but im not an expert in fish disease by any means that would also explain how my fish died so quick upon first symptoms, which was around 24-36 hours after symptoms appeared. Right now I just need more data if I want to identify anything and verify my suspicions. The black dots are what im referring to. I wish I got a higher magnification on them but I thought they were just scab materia where fins were damaged. I still have 2 samples frozen, not sure how viable they are but thats all I got aside from doing a live fin scraping.

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Jay Hemdal

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I generally use an anesthetic before doing a skin scrape, but in a pinch, if you are really careful you can do one freehanded. Fish with ctenoid scales, like pygmy angels are tough to scrape. For fish with cycloid scales (smoother, more mucus skin) you just hold the fish gently in a net and gently drag forceps head to tail along a portion of the fish's side. Then, rinse off the mucus into a watch glass with seawater.

I prefer diagnostic FW dips though. Here is an excerpt from my upcoming disease book:

Skin scrape vs. diagnostic bath
Biopsies, or "skin scrapes," are often performed on live specimens as a similar diagnostic tool to the bath procedure. You can acquire a sample faster by performing a biopsy, but the stress to the animal is greater due to the physical abrasion that occurs. A biopsy, promptly examined, has the benefit over the bath procedure of collecting live parasites—and the motion of a living parasite makes microscopic identification much easier.
On the other hand, one major advantage of the diagnostic dip is that a formalin bath or freshwater dip is oftentimes the prescribed treatment for the very pathogens that the bath is used to identify. This means that should a problem be discovered during the course of the procedure, the diagnostic bath itself will have already had some therapeutic effect.

Jay
 
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Jjd531

Jjd531

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I generally use an anesthetic before doing a skin scrape, but in a pinch, if you are really careful you can do one freehanded. Fish with ctenoid scales, like pygmy angels are tough to scrape. For fish with cycloid scales (smoother, more mucus skin) you just hold the fish gently in a net and gently drag forceps head to tail along a portion of the fish's side. Then, rinse off the mucus into a watch glass with seawater.

I prefer diagnostic FW dips though. Here is an excerpt from my upcoming disease book:

Skin scrape vs. diagnostic bath
Biopsies, or "skin scrapes," are often performed on live specimens as a similar diagnostic tool to the bath procedure. You can acquire a sample faster by performing a biopsy, but the stress to the animal is greater due to the physical abrasion that occurs. A biopsy, promptly examined, has the benefit over the bath procedure of collecting live parasites—and the motion of a living parasite makes microscopic identification much easier.
On the other hand, one major advantage of the diagnostic dip is that a formalin bath or freshwater dip is oftentimes the prescribed treatment for the very pathogens that the bath is used to identify. This means that should a problem be discovered during the course of the procedure, the diagnostic bath itself will have already had some therapeutic effect.

Jay
Anything out of the ordinary from the fin scrape? I figured the black was from where the degradation on the fin was happening so I didn't think as much of it.
 

Jay Hemdal

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Fin scrapes are less effective than skin scrapes. I can't think of any parasite that is found only on the fins, not the body as well. Bacterial fin disease of course, but you don't do fin scrapes for that. Typically, if I need to look at the fins, I do a clip, not a scrape (very small amount). I know some people who even do gill clips on living fish, but that makes me nervous.

Jay
 

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