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- Feb 15, 2012
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Wants me to be hot headed and has a funny mask on, as avatar.Wants others to cool off while being hot headed.
Makes sense.
How old are you, kid?
Makes sense.
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Wants me to be hot headed and has a funny mask on, as avatar.Wants others to cool off while being hot headed.
Makes sense.
I don't hate LEDs. You're wrong!@A. grandis can u tell me what kind of LED lights u tested?
It seems like u are 100% against LED if I read your messages and IMO you shouldn't.
Maybe off-topic for the topic starter but for me this topic is very informing and this kind of topics are very interesting!
Grtz,
Matthijs
He has the points and I do concur to the thoughts and reasons.I don't hate LEDs. You're wrong!
I don't agree with fake propaganda they do to try prove they are better than halides and T5s because they aren't any better! That's the wrong way to advertise! That is what I call to lie to the newbies that don't know better! Do you like that? Do you think that is right? Products that have to lie to sell aren't good as they claim, logically. Those who compare showing "better results" using specifically pictures of metal halides and T5s with wrong application. Bad character! Ask your parents what they think about that. If they say that's fine, then please ask your grandma.
You name any LED you want! They will not deliver the same light QUALITIES a halide can, only because they are different. Just like any halide will not deliver the same light QUALITIES that LEDs can. Is that too hard to understand?
To compare ANY LED to ANY halide in order to sell is ridiculous! And yet that is how they do! They know halides can deliver some things LEDs just can't. NOT BECAUSE HALIDES ARE BETTER! Just because they are different. Application will give you different results. That is the fact! Not a negative thing.
Do you prefer or are happy with your LEDs? That is great! I'm happy for you.
Name any LED you want: Kessil, Radion, Hydra, whatever... I personally think that those black boxes are great lights and I've spent months with them over a system. They worked better than other LEDs IMO. I've worked with many systems that had expensive LEDs over them too. I've seen amazing tanks with black boxes. One of the best LEDs in America is Orphek. Nothing against you or anyone using them. Let's get that clear!
Do you hate halides if you don't use them and talk about your LEDs' qualities? Am I saying that people that came insulting me here hate halides? No. They have some anger issues though. Starting with their names. LOL!!!
My posts with videos were specifically to answer to other posts.
If you try to read them carefully you will understand better.
Have fun with your lights! This is just a hobby after all.
add to the thought about MH 6500K, ATM due to RGB limitation capacity to produce true white light such as 5.5K-6.5K that why most Led user turn down the so called white light to control algae.and... if anyone wants to tell me that a halide 6500K doesn't give the VERY BEST COLORATION AND GROWTH compared to ANY other bulb in the market is also disagreeing with Dr. Sanjay Joshi and Mike palleta (see video). Go argue with them!!! LOL!!
BUT... that could be only his own preference, right? Or is that an actual proven fact? Is Mike lying in that video? Go ask him.
Maybe it's just a coincidence that I experienced the same results with my systems. That's why I completely agree with them. I prefer to agree with them than anyone else because I know for a fact they are saying the truth.
Up to you guys to decide. We all have different prospective of what is gonna be the best way for what we want to reproduce in our systems...
The stores will show to you what they want to sell. Keep that in mind. Nothing wrong in choosing what they sell, if that's what you want. So relative that way. Still a beautiful hobby. Don't let it perish for lack of true info though! The newbies are the future of this hobby!
your points well made.I don't get it why getting so pushy about showing the "truth".
First of all, there isn't such thing as "the BEST fixture" as everyone and everything has their own needs.
Why don't I have MH or T5? Not because the results aren't proven and they're probably the best lights color- and growthwise but because of electricity consumption and heat.
So no, T5 and MH aren't an option for me as in Belgium electricity is very expensive and I don't want to change 16 x t5 bulbs every year at 25euro a bulb.
T5 would cost me +-1400euro on electricity and +-400euro on bulbs.
Thats 1800euro just for lighting.
I dont even take count of a cooler to keep the temperature ok with the heat that the lights generate.
LED cost me a lot less as I run my lights 12h a day but ramp up/ramp down.
Let's say my LED cost me around 800euro/year on electricty.
Thats a difference of 1000euro a year.
Those prices are just quickly calculated and absolutely not accurate but just to make my point why for me T5 isn't better then LED even though the results MIGHT be better.
Corals adapt to the light it gets, that doesn't mean we make them suffer neither.
Same happens with human being that adapt to there environment.
Or are black people/white people happier because they're white or black?
Not a real comparision and probably you will flood me with information but I think people can choose for themselves what they like and want.
I have LED and had T5 (and MH in the beginning) in the past and FOR ME LED is the best option at this moment.
I have a nice sundown with fluoriscence in the evening that gives a relaxing feeling in my living room, they dont dissipate to much heat and the consumption is acceptable.
Btw, to finish here is a picture of my zoa in the tank under full LED, for me they look happy. What do you think? (Dont look at the sandbottom as I have some silicates in my water at this moment)
Ps : sorry for my English that is not perfect, thats a result of a human adapting to his environment and talking Dutch/French daily
Pss : I love this kind of conversations as long as everyone respects everyones opinion as we can only learn from eachother!
Grtz,
Matthijs
Ok... I know how bad I am...
Heat and electricity excuses in most cases are a lack of understanding and performing wrong application when using halides.
Halides can be easily cooled off with good fans placed to circulate the air between the fixture and water surface. To try to be able to keep my tank like I have under T5s or halides I'll need basically the same amount of wattage using LEDs. Just to try... I can get an acceptable growth speed with LEDs, but absolutely not the color nor colony structure. Halides will give all 3 in an optimal level IMO.
Application of any fixture with the amount of wattage is a key to use them.
Ambient temperature using halides needs to be addressed more than using T5s or LED though. I just open the windows...
The worse mistake people make is to use more wattage and photoperiod with halides than they should/need, therefore ending up with a fat electricity bill.
Yeah, we didn't have the fraction of today's technology available and yet the info in the mags and the tanks were way more advanced.Today, Maybe!!!... Back in the mid-late 90’s and early 2000’s we didn’t have a fraction of today’s technology available (Heck, not even social media was so good), even today we are still figuring out the best way to replicate nature by trials and errors and “if anything” 2 out of every 5 reef tanks are truly successful nowadays; our loved hobby has sadly become a “monkey see, monkey do” parade; most reefers are more interested in asking what water parameters are being used, or what dosage of certain elements, or what light PAR/schedule is a nice reef using, rather than try and learn what is best for their own tank.
Halides, T5’s or LED’s they are all good, the results from several people using the same choice of light is never the same... Simply because this “science” is not only about the lights.
I want to have a Zoanthids garden.... Anyone else?
I'm glad I'm not an expert. LOL!
Yeah, we didn't have the fraction of today's technology available and yet the info in the mags and the tanks were way more advanced.
Greater part of the science is about the lights though IMO.
Get your zoanthid garden going...
Ok... I know how bad I am...
Heat and electricity excuses in most cases are a lack of understanding and performing wrong application when using halides.
Halides can be easily cooled off with good fans placed to circulate the air between the fixture and water surface. To try to be able to keep my tank like I have under T5s or halides I'll need basically the same amount of wattage using LEDs. Just to try... I can get an acceptable growth speed with LEDs, but absolutely not the color nor colony structure. Halides will give all 3 in an optimal level IMO.
Application of any fixture with the amount of wattage is a key to use them.
Ambient temperature using halides needs to be addressed more than using T5s or LED though. I just open the windows...
The worse mistake people make is to use more wattage and photoperiod with halides than they should/need, therefore ending up with a fat electricity bill.
I've said many times before, since 2010, to many friends around me that LEDs wouldn't last too long before people would realize how other lights have additional important properties to offer over them. I've tried LEDs even with planted tanks for many, many years just to know how much those fixtures lack in the long run. Only people that don't know better aren't able to notice. I'm talking about a higher level of keeping plants and corals, my friends. Not just newbies' hype seen at the LFS. Do you want to get serious about reefkeeping? I think it's time wake up and bring back what's best in lighting for our hobby. I do not sell halides nor T5s, so I'm not worried if you are really listening to my words here. BUT... if "they grow fine" and colors are "great"...
Here is a great example for you guys to understand. Planted aquarium hobbyists that are actually serious about what they do are also noticing that T5s will give what they need for their plants and prefer them over LEDs. ADA people know that. They still sell LEDs, if you want them.
Again, results matter! Choose yours and be happy.
LED "pop" from blue diodes is also ugly to MY eyes because it gives a tremendous artificial touch that the corals don't need. But it's actually a matter of taste. I'm so sorry to write all that, including my aestetics preferences. Just me. No flaming. Think what you want!
So I don't hate those LEDs. I don't hate the people using them.
So much money invested on LEDs... Is that really worthy in the long run? ONLY IF YOU ARE HAPPY WITH THE RESULTS! The tank is yours and no one has any business with your tank but you.
I didn't take offense.Apologies, I didn’t mean any offense by quoting a sentence of your post, all I was trying to say is all these lights have proven results and they are bought by reefers according to preference and budget, the results are directly related to many other factors that go hand on hand with how we use them.
Im truly sorry your thread was abducted like this @_pabloperetti
I can give you the info here, so others will also get it. I don't want to keep writing many emails after this. LOL!BTW since you have more experience and run MH and T5 longer than I am.
What is your typical schedule of MH and or T5?
Love to hear from you so I can compare note for my research.
You can email me at [email protected]
I love to see your tank info of the whole system.
Thank you in advance.
Thank you for sharing.I can give you the info here, so others will also get it. I don't want to keep writing many emails after this. LOL!
75gal with 20 gal sump and ATB skimmer. 10% water change when I can, like every other week. That's it!
T5s only: 6 bulbs from 11:00am to 8:00pm.
Halides/T5s: 4 XT5 bulbs from 11:00am to 8:00pm and 2 X 175W or 2 X 250W halides from 12:00pm to 4:00pm.
You can have halides only for 10 hours a day, etc... there are so many options for photoperiod.
There is no magic! You can use any Ks for halides. They will all give you better colors than any other type of bulb. T5 bulb combos can have ATI Blue Plus, ATI True Actinic, ATI Coral Plus, GE 6500K, Giesemann Actinic Blue,... I just don't use purple bulbs because I appreciate too much the slots to waste a space for purple color.
Half blue bulbs with half "white" bulbs is one of the best too. I've done so many combinations with halides and T5s in my life... they all worked amazingly. What is yours?
Thanks for the info! So nice that full spectrum+UV. They already have some UV, but that bulb must be great!!! Wild spectrum chart too! LOL! Nice!Thank you for sharing.
I also use Halides/T5s: 2 X 96 WATT SQUARE PIN CF Actinic bulbs with 2 X 175W 20K no name bulbs as I don't care much for brand name on one tank
For another frag tank I use ATI 6 bulbs (2 x ATI coral plus and 2 x GIESEMANN 54W TROPIC T5 BULB, 2x ATI Blue PLus) but recently been experiment with (2 x ATI coral plus and 2 x T5 HO 54W Full Spectrum + UV Grow Light, 2x 4FT T5 LED 36W Tube 460nm Blue light) compliment with 2 led strip lights.
Here is the link that I bought these experiment T5 bulbs
4FT T5 HO 54W Full Spectrum + UV Grow Light
FS54T5HOW Full Spectrum + UV 54W T5 LEDwww.growlights.ca4FT T5 LED 36W Tube 460nm Blue light - 2 Pack
F54T5HO-LED36R 460nm Blue 36W T5 LEDwww.growlights.ca