How do I lower PO4 without a reactor?

[kyleinpdx]

@saullman apologies if this has already been covered:

• Have you done an ICP test of your water? (where you send it away to be tested)
• Any magnets/power heads in your tank that may be rusting?
• Have you checked for stray voltage? Could be coming from a pump, heater, etc (a cheap $10 multi-meter will tell you)

I, too, am more concerned with your CUC not lasting than the algae, my hunch is if we can take care of one, that will take care of the other. If I were you, I might try siphoning that sand bed out of the tank, to be honest, its looking a little nasty. You can either replace it with new sand or go BB for a little while. Most of the nitrifying bacteria will be in your rocks so other than stirring up crap (which is a valid concern) not too much will happen. Siphon that ish out and do a water change.

 

[saullman]

So in an attempt to help you get to the bottom of this is ask my lfs guy his thoughts he mention that stray electrical current could be what's killing you CUC.

So how would I know if there is any stray electrical current running through my system?

 

[kyleinpdx]

So how would I know if there is any stray electrical current running through my system?

Heres a good thread they answer other questions that may come up as well.

 

[saullman]

@saullman apologies if this has already been covered:

• Have you done an ICP test of your water? (where you send it away to be tested)
• Any magnets/power heads in your tank that may be rusting?
• Have you checked for stray voltage? Could be coming from a pump, heater, etc (a cheap $10 multi-meter will tell you)

I, too, am more concerned with your CUC not lasting than the algae, my hunch is if we can take care of one, that will take care of the other. If I were you, I might try siphoning that sand bed out of the tank, to be honest, its looking a little nasty. You can either replace it with new sand or go BB for a little while. Most of the nitrifying bacteria will be in your rocks so other than stirring up crap (which is a valid concern) not too much will happen. Siphon that ish out and do a water change.

1- I have not done an ICP test yet. Mainly because the budget has been tight.
2- The only magnets that I can think of in my tank are from an MP10 and tunze skimmer. Both of which are in good shape. Actually I will check my MP10 wet side again just to make sure. I also need to check my 2 main pumps. They haven’t been cleaned in a while anyway.
3- where would I purchase this $10 multi meter tool?
Thank you for mentioning the stray voltage. Someone else also mentioned it.

Last, I have been thinking about going bare bottom because I am tired of dealing with the dirty sand and algae in my sandbed. My question is that I do have 2 nassarius snails that live in the sand and a yellow coris wrasse that sleeps in the sand at night I believe. Would they be ok if I removed all the sand?
Also, I believe there is some board that you can put in the bottom of the tank instead of sand. I have 3 huge rocks in there. If one of them fell over, I’d be afraid that they would scratch or worse crack the bottom of the tank. Thoughts?

 

[kyleinpdx]

1- I have not done an ICP test yet. Mainly because the budget has been tight.
2- The only magnets that I can think of in my tank are from an MP10 and tunze skimmer. Both of which are in good shape. Actually I will check my MP10 wet side again just to make sure. I also need to check my 2 main pumps. They haven’t been cleaned in a while anyway.
3- where would I purchase this $10 multi meter tool?
Thank you for mentioning the stray voltage. Someone else also mentioned it.

Last, I have been thinking about going bare bottom because I am tired of dealing with the dirty sand and algae in my sandbed. My question is that I do have 2 nassarius snails that live in the sand and a yellow coris wrasse that sleeps in the sand at night I believe. Would they be ok if I removed all the sand?
Also, I believe there is some board that you can put in the bottom of the tank instead of sand. I have 3 huge rocks in there. If one of them fell over, I’d be afraid that they would scratch or worse crack the bottom of the tank. Thoughts?

1. If you can, I'd suggest giving it a shot. It'll hopefully give you a good indication on which direction to go. Honestly, its probably cheaper sending one of those off than having to buy your CUC two or three times over.

2. Yes, check anything thats metal that comes into contact with water. Anything rusting or discolored could be leeching heavy metals into the water which can cause all sorts of issues. There is a quote I like "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth." I think we're past "is your temp and salinity stable?" and more on to "ok, what weird, uncommon things could produce this result your seeing?" and heavy metals are one possible culprit.

3. Any analog or digital multimeter will work, I'm not sure where in the world you are but amazon, harbor freight, any auto parts store, or any electronics shop should have them. Here are some options.

 

[saullman]

@saullman apologies if this has already been covered:

• Have you done an ICP test of your water? (where you send it away to be tested)
• Any magnets/power heads in your tank that may be rusting?
• Have you checked for stray voltage? Could be coming from a pump, heater, etc (a cheap $10 multi-meter will tell you)

I, too, am more concerned with your CUC not lasting than the algae, my hunch is if we can take care of one, that will take care of the other. If I were you, I might try siphoning that sand bed out of the tank, to be honest, its looking a little nasty. You can either replace it with new sand or go BB for a little while. Most of the nitrifying bacteria will be in your rocks so other than stirring up crap (which is a valid concern) not too much will happen. Siphon that ish out and do a water change.

1. If you can, I'd suggest giving it a shot. It'll hopefully give you a good indication on which direction to go. Honestly, its probably cheaper sending one of those off than having to buy your CUC two or three times over.

2. Yes, check anything thats metal that comes into contact with water. Anything rusting or discolored could be leeching heavy metals into the water which can cause all sorts of issues. There is a quote I like "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth." I think we're past "is your temp and salinity stable?" and more on to "ok, what weird, uncommon things could produce this result your seeing?" and heavy metals are one possible culprit.

3. Any analog or digital multimeter will work, I'm not sure where in the world you are but amazon, harbor freight, any auto parts store, or any electronics shop should have them. Here are some options.

I have been thinking about going bare bottom because I am tired of dealing with the dirty sand and algae in my sandbed. My question is that I do have 2 nassarius snails that live in the sand and a yellow coris wrasse that sleeps in the sand at night I believe. Would they be ok if I removed all the sand?
Also, I believe there is some board that you can put in the bottom of the tank instead of sand. I have 3 huge rocks in there. If one of them fell over, I’d be afraid that they would scratch or worse crack the bottom of the tank. Thoughts?

 

[saullman]

Hey, I just wanted to give everyone trying to help me an update on my tank. And thanks again to all your input. I read every comment and try to respond back.

So I happened to have a multimeter on hand. After researching how to use it for a few hours I figured I'd test my water for stray voltage and eliminate another factor out of the equation. What I found is that my ATO & skimmer are putting stray voltage in my water.
With all my equipment turned on, the voltage in my tank is 30-31 volts.
If I run everything, except for the heater I'm at 12-18 volts
If I run everything, except for the heater and ato I'm at 9-13 volts.
The lowest reading that I got was with just running the two main pumps, ai prime, mp10, and skimmer. Leaving the ato and heater off, I was at 4-7 volts.

My multimeter is pretty old so I'm not sure how accurate it is. I also noticed that I got different readings at different areas in the tank meaning the left side had less voltage running through it than the right side. I'm hoping this is the reason that I can't keep any inverts alive more than a month. Anyway, I obviously know that I need to replace my heater (200w Cobalt) so I now need to research which heaters are good. Not really sure what to do about the ato. I have the tunze nano ato and that is a piece of equipment I can't do without.

Now I'm curious what is the normal range of voltage in a tank with 6 pieces of equipment plugged in?
What kind of stray voltage is in your tank? What's your number?

 

[fcmatt]

Did not read whole post. Lfs rodi water is not very good. Fyi! Made for fish only systems and often no di resin us used!

 

[kyleinpdx]

Hey, I just wanted to give everyone trying to help me an update on my tank. And thanks again to all your input. I read every comment and try to respond back.

So I happened to have a multimeter on hand. After researching how to use it for a few hours I figured I'd test my water for stray voltage and eliminate another factor out of the equation. What I found is that my ATO & skimmer are putting stray voltage in my water.
With all my equipment turned on, the voltage in my tank is 30-31 volts.
If I run everything, except for the heater I'm at 12-18 volts
If I run everything, except for the heater and ato I'm at 9-13 volts.
The lowest reading that I got was with just running the two main pumps, ai prime, mp10, and skimmer. Leaving the ato and heater off, I was at 4-7 volts.

My multimeter is pretty old so I'm not sure how accurate it is. I also noticed that I got different readings at different areas in the tank meaning the left side had less voltage running through it than the right side. I'm hoping this is the reason that I can't keep any inverts alive more than a month. Anyway, I obviously know that I need to replace my heater (200w Cobalt) so I now need to research which heaters are good. Not really sure what to do about the ato. I have the tunze nano ato and that is a piece of equipment I can't do without.

Now I'm curious what is the normal range of voltage in a tank with 6 pieces of equipment plugged in?
What kind of stray voltage is in your tank? What's your number?

Your multi-meter is probably accurate. Before you go and ditch or buy anything, get a grounding probe. What you are seeing is induced voltage from the electronics in/around the tank. Take a look at this thread here, pay special attention to Brew12's posts.

Once the grounding probe is in place, we'll want to test again and then probably move on to contaminants (like your heater).

 

[SCReef'n]

Your multi-meter is probably accurate. Before you go and ditch or buy anything, get a grounding probe. What you are seeing is induced voltage from the electronics in/around the tank. Take a look at this thread here, pay special attention to Brew12's posts.

Once the grounding probe is in place, we'll want to test again and then probably move on to contaminants (like your heater).

It may be induced voltage but I’d inspect every piece of equipment thoroughly before I left it in my tank. 30 volts seems like a lot I’m sure it possible but i would be ruling out faulty equipment first. A grounding wire is good idea but you need properly functioning equipment

Tds at those levels isn’t great I’d try and invest in an rodi unit sooner than later but the voltage it’s likely what’s killing your livestock. I’d fix that and start reintroducing cuc slowly.

 

[kyleinpdx]

If he’s reading 30 volts it’s not just induced voltage. I’ll buy a volt or two but not 30. If equipment is putting that many bolts into your tank it needs to be replaced.

Did you take a look at the thread I linked?

From @Brew12

I'm of the opinion that any voltage should be passed off to ground, so we're on the same side of that argument, but I dont think it necessarily means its faulted equipment (however it could be).

 

[SCReef'n]

Did you take a look at the thread I linked?

From @Brew12

I'm of the opinion that any voltage should be passed off to ground, so we're on the same side of that argument, but I dont think it necessarily means its faulted equipment (however it could be).

I stand corrected after having tested my own tank and finding 28 volts guess what I just ordered.

 

[kyleinpdx]

I stand corrected after having tested my own tank and finding 28 volts guess what I just ordered.

Crazy huh? Welcome aboard the grounding probe train! I've run that exact one linked for years, has been great.

 

[clffthmps]

I would add more clean up crew Especially for algae. Nitrates look good.I would try to lower phosphates with multiple water changes throughout a week, maybe 10% twice a week. chemi pure elite works awesome for me Because it has GFO in it.

 

[saullman]

Did not read whole post. Lfs rodi water is not very good. Fyi! Made for fish only systems and often no di resin us used!

I wish I could afford one right now. It's just not in my budget. Some day.

 

[NS Mike D]

While you are ruling out voltage and getting a reliable source of water, the 15TDS has my attention vis-a-vis dying CUC. A LFS should be selling RODI water and 15 TDS isn't even in the ballpark for RODI and a reef aquarium.

However, copper is used (I am not sure how widespread) by the fish industry to treat for ich, algae other issues in their systems that are at levels that are not harmful to fish, but can be lethal for inverts like snails.

A pet store that isn't an experience reef specialist might very well treat their systems with copper of fish and sell you that salt water without considering the impact on the CUC.

 

[saullman]

Your multi-meter is probably accurate. Before you go and ditch or buy anything, get a grounding probe. What you are seeing is induced voltage from the electronics in/around the tank. Take a look at this thread here, pay special attention to Brew12's posts.

Once the grounding probe is in place, we'll want to test again and then probably move on to contaminants (like your heater).

Got it. I'll order that grounding probe tonight.

 

[saullman]

I stand corrected after having tested my own tank and finding 28 volts guess what I just ordered.

That makes me feel a little better that I'm not the only one.

 

[saullman]

I would add more clean up crew Especially for algae. Nitrates look good.I would try to lower phosphates with multiple water changes throughout a week, maybe 10% twice a week. chemi pure elite works awesome for me Because it has GFO in it.

I'm currently in the process of doing a water change in between replying. I am also using rowaphos because I already had it on hand. Once I run out, I will pick up some chemi pure elite.

 

[Aqua Man]

Until your ready for to buy your own RODI unit, distilled water will work.