How do I lower PO4 without a reactor?

[Crashnt24]

I have been in the hobby for 10 years and still deal with algae out breaks. My tank naturally wants to sit at 0 NO3 and 0.1 PO4. Which makes algae explode. I started putting GFO in media bags in my sump and dosing NO3. FINALLY my tank looks awesome, all the corals are coloring up nice and exploding in growth. Currently sitting at NO3 5PPM PO4 0.02. These are the ideal levels you should shoot for for coral growth and coloration, also algae reduction.

My point is... Everyone's tanks are different. Find your tanks niche and act accordingly. I would find a better NO3 export(ex: deep sand bed, more dense rock, top of the line refugium light and chaeto, less feedings and over powered skimmer). Then get measurements and find your PO4 and NO3 ratio and act to fix that(ex: GFO, Nitrate dosing)

I have faith, dont give up!

 

[saullman]

Until your ready for to buy your own RODI unit, distilled water will work.

The 15 tds came from a store that I am no longer buying water from. I am solely buying water from WWC. They were 8 on the tds meter.

 

[fcmatt]

The 15 tds came from a store that I am no longer buying water from. I am solely buying water from WWC. They were 8 on the tds meter.

8 is ok. Just look at a bucket of pure water the wrong way can cause it to jump to 8. Meaning by the time we start using it and mix salt and drop in a heater and pump... it is not so pure anymore.

I have seen lfs sell or give 100 plus water from tired old ro filters.

 

[saullman]

Your multi-meter is probably accurate. Before you go and ditch or buy anything, get a grounding probe. What you are seeing is induced voltage from the electronics in/around the tank. Take a look at this thread here, pay special attention to Brew12's posts.

Once the grounding probe is in place, we'll want to test again and then probably move on to contaminants (like your heater).

So I finally had enough time to read the thread you linked. Interesting reading about stray vs induced. Allot of the info went right over my head, but at least I know now.
I also ordered the grounding probe and a new heater just in case.

However while we are on this subject I do need to get a GFCI outlet on my tank. Is it better to get one of those kind that just plugs into the wall or should I replace the wall outlet?
If I replaced the wall outlet, is it something that I can do on my own without getting an electrician involved?

 

[kyleinpdx]

So I finally had enough time to read the thread you linked. Interesting reading about stray vs induced. Allot of the info went right over my head, but at least I know now.
I also ordered the grounding probe and a new heater just in case.

However while we are on this subject I do need to get a GFCI outlet on my tank. Is it better to get one of those kind that just plugs into the wall or should I replace the wall outlet?
If I replaced the wall outlet, is it something that I can do on my own without getting an electrician involved?

Yeah it can be a lot to take in, especially if you dont have a background in electronics.

To answer your question, you and your tank are much safer now, however a GFCI would be ideal. If your electrical socket (wall receptacle) is grounded (has 3 holes/spots) then its not too much work to install a GFCI, this subreddit is a great resource. If your electrical socket is not grounded (3 holes) then its a whole different level of difficulty.

 

[saullman]

Yeah it can be a lot to take in, especially if you dont have a background in electronics.

To answer your question, you and your tank are much safer now, however a GFCI would be ideal. If your electrical socket (wall receptacle) is grounded (has 3 holes/spots) then its not too much work to install a GFCI, this subreddit is a great resource. If your electrical socket is not grounded (3 holes) then its a whole different level of difficulty.

My wall outlet is grounded, but I think I'm going to buy one that plugs into the wall. If I ever move, I can take it with me.

 

[saullman]

Update:
So I replaced my heater (2.5 years old) and added a grounding probe to my tank. Retested tank with NO grounding probe, but new heater and everything else on and got a fluctuation of 8-13 volts. Then added the grounding probe and got a reading of wait, wait for it........................ Zero, nada, zilch.

I also picked up a portable GFCI outlet that I plugged into the wall and then plugged my power strip into it for safety measures. One can never be too safe when working around water and electricity.

So I think the next step is going to the lfs and buying 2-3 snails to see if they survive in my tank for more than a few weeks. If they do, then I will know that it was the voltage in the tank that was frying them. If not, I will try to eliminate another possibility. What do you guys think? Good plan of action.

 

[Frais]

Update:
So I replaced my heater (2.5 years old) and added a grounding probe to my tank. Retested tank with NO grounding probe, but new heater and everything else on and got a fluctuation of 8-13 volts. Then added the grounding probe and got a reading of wait, wait for it........................ Zero, nada, zilch.

I also picked up a portable GFCI outlet that I plugged into the wall and then plugged my power strip into it for safety measures. One can never be too safe when working around water and electricity.

So I think the next step is going to the lfs and buying 2-3 snails to see if they survive in my tank for more than a few weeks. If they do, then I will know that it was the voltage in the tank that was frying them. If not, I will try to eliminate another possibility. What do you guys think? Good plan of action.

Sounds good to me. Hoping it all works out.

 

[kyleinpdx]

Update:
So I replaced my heater (2.5 years old) and added a grounding probe to my tank. Retested tank with NO grounding probe, but new heater and everything else on and got a fluctuation of 8-13 volts. Then added the grounding probe and got a reading of wait, wait for it........................ Zero, nada, zilch.

I also picked up a portable GFCI outlet that I plugged into the wall and then plugged my power strip into it for safety measures. One can never be too safe when working around water and electricity.

So I think the next step is going to the lfs and buying 2-3 snails to see if they survive in my tank for more than a few weeks. If they do, then I will know that it was the voltage in the tank that was frying them. If not, I will try to eliminate another possibility. What do you guys think? Good plan of action.

Thats great news. Sounds like a good plan to me as well, but I do want to say, even if those inverts dont make it this time, dont get discouraged, you have solved an issue with your tank (the stray voltage/grounding) so you are making progress, there might be more than one thing contributing, but you are slowly checking them off the list and eventually we'll have tackled them all. Good luck.

 

[SCReef'n]

Update:
So I replaced my heater (2.5 years old) and added a grounding probe to my tank. Retested tank with NO grounding probe, but new heater and everything else on and got a fluctuation of 8-13 volts. Then added the grounding probe and got a reading of wait, wait for it........................ Zero, nada, zilch.

I also picked up a portable GFCI outlet that I plugged into the wall and then plugged my power strip into it for safety measures. One can never be too safe when working around water and electricity.

So I think the next step is going to the lfs and buying 2-3 snails to see if they survive in my tank for more than a few weeks. If they do, then I will know that it was the voltage in the tank that was frying them. If not, I will try to eliminate another possibility. What do you guys think? Good plan of action.

I too got one this week and went from 28 to 0. I hope that fixes your issues. You’ve made a lot of progress since the start of all this as far as understanding your tank, and you’ve caused me to do the same. Thank you

 

[saullman]

I too got one this week and went from 28 to 0. I hope that fixes your issues. You’ve made a lot of progress since the start of all this as far as understanding your tank, and you’ve caused me to do the same. Thank you

No really. Thank you for all the helpful input. I’ll keep everyone updated along the way. I know I have several other issues with the tank like algae and my parameters are not where they need to be. My coralline algae is turning white. So I’m far from done. But at least I checked one thing off the list.

 

[saullman]

Thats great news. Sounds like a good plan to me as well, but I do want to say, even if those inverts dont make it this time, dont get discouraged, you have solved an issue with your tank (the stray voltage/grounding) so you are making progress, there might be more than one thing contributing, but you are slowly checking them off the list and eventually we'll have tackled them all. Good luck.

Hey, I just wanted to Thank You again. You have been a huge help with getting this issue fixed. It’s nice to know that there are helpful people like you on R2R.

 

[kyleinpdx]

Hey, I just wanted to Thank You again. You have been a huge help with getting this issue fixed. It’s nice to know that there are helpful people like you on R2R.

For sure, happy to do it. I appreciate you coming back and keeping us updated. So often someone makes a post, the community offers suggestions/ideas and we never hear back.

Plus, someone many years ago put the time and effort into teaching me, gotta pay that forward.

 

[saullman]

Speaking of updates. Did some testing tonight with a new Red Sea foundation pro test kit and a new Hanna phosphate ULR tester. These are my results:

Calcium=400ppm
Magnesium=1140ppm
Alkalinity=9.3 dKH
Phosphates =0 This one was surprising to me. I tested twice because I thought I did something wrong the first time. I'm also surprised because I have an algae issue.
PH=7.8-8.0 (using API test kit)
Nitrate= 0 (API as well)
Salinity= 1.023
Temp= 77.9

I'm still trying to learn what all these numbers mean. Whats good, what's bad, what do I need to work on, etc.

 

[kyleinpdx]

Speaking of updates. Did some testing tonight with a new Red Sea foundation pro test kit and a new Hanna phosphate ULR tester. These are my results:

Calcium=400ppm
Magnesium=1140ppm
Alkalinity=9.3 dKH
Phosphates =0 This one was surprising to me. I tested twice because I thought I did something wrong the first time. I'm also surprised because I have an algae issue.
PH=7.8-8.0 (using API test kit)
Nitrate= 0 (API as well)
Salinity= 1.023
Temp= 77.9

I'm still trying to learn what all these numbers mean. Whats good, what's bad, what do I need to work on, etc.

Most of those numbers are within the acceptable range. Without telling you what you should do, I'll tell you where my tank is at:

Ca: 420-440
Alk: 8.6
Mag: 1300
ph: 8.35 - 8.55 (yes thats legit, outside airline for the skimmer and mixing with red sea coral pro salt)
Salinity: 1.026 (35ppt)
Temp: 78.8

Your po4 is probably reading 0 as any available is used up by the algae growth, thats pretty common. As for nitrate, honestly I havent tested no3 in a while, I pay more attention to po4.

The moral of the story is dont fight against your tank trying to hit a specific number, instead pay attention to how things look, how things are growing, etc. There are plenty of successful tanks all across the spectrum from ultra low nutrients to very high nutrient levels.

Its better to have higher nutrients at higher alkalinity levels so dont shoot for 0 no3/po4 while still at 9+ dkh. If you are having algae problems you may want to try to raise your magnesium, before we had things like vibrant and fluconazole running high magnesium helped inhibit some types of algae growth. I'm talking mag in the 1600-1800 range. Its also one of those things that can be raised quickly. I wouldnt necessarily recommend jumping straight to 1800 but going from > 1200 to < 1400 shouldnt harm anything.

 

[Perry]

Everyone is telling me to add a CUC, (don't get me wrong I want to) but why would I add a CUC for the algae issue when I have other issues going on in the tank also.

1- Everytime I do buy a CUC they die within a few weeks. A month tops.
2- my rocks are turning white (have a separate thread for that one)
3- just about all my corals are dead. I have 2 left. A paly and a Duncan.

I know a CUC is important, but I want to get my water parameters in check first. I am going to start by doing a big water change or at least several smaller changes. I'm running rowaphos now so that should help and I'm about to start dosing 2 part to get my levels where they need to be. If there is anything that I have learned in this hobby its to go slow. I'm not going to just throw a CUC in my tank to watch them all die and see my hard earned money go right out the door. I do however appreciate everyone's input and willingness to want to help me out.

IMO,
Algae is normal, not being able to keep a CUC, then scratch having fish and corals. Now, I would not take any nutrient #'s seriously, at least not until you nake a dent on the algae. I just got done doing a 25% water change, and manually removed lots of algae via siphon with rigid tubing, getting into nooks and crannies, removing hair and bubble algae. The water change balances the chemistry, and brings nutrients down proportionally. Your algae is giving you false tests, as they are consuming nutrients. So a manual elbow grease removal, using toothbrush, and whatever else you can do to get it out of your system. Cut light intensity, and get a balanced CUC. I have quite a crew, but brushing and scraping kind of re-engages them, and gets them back to picking. Red Leg Mexican hermits are awesome on hair algae, FWIW.

 

[saullman]

Update:
Replaced heater and added a ground probe to my tank to get rid of the 30 volts that I had before. Retested tonight and got a reading of .02. I'm very happy about that.
I also did a large water change (50% of display) about 3 weeks ago. I want to do another next week as well.
Then I restarted up my CUC. Purchased 3 trochus,, 3 cerith, and 3 astrea snails. It's only been a few weeks but so far no casualties. I keeping my fingers crossed that things are starting to move in the right direction.