How do people get lion fish to work with smaller fish

fishywishy

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My dream fish is a fuzzy or fu Manchu dwarf lion fish but I already have some clownfish because ive seen people successfully have them together and my lfs said it could work but now more and more people are telling me its not a good idea to get one so how are people getting it to work, do you have to just feed it a ton so its never hungry or are some just less aggressive than others?
 
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lion king

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Why do they have a high mortality rate, it seems like all you have to do is just feed them right

When it comes to dwarf and medium bodied lions they are difficult to feed and many times will need live food to survive. Most hobbyist that do get their lions to eat dead food, feed them a diet lacking in proper nutrients and high in thiaminese, and they don't live long. Predator fish if fed at all during transport will be fed dying, diseased, and fresh dead fish; and will come in with internal parasites. If the hobbyist isn't up on this, the lion dies. Lions are very sensitive to copper and many suppliers, lfs, use copper in their systems, and this will cause internal organ damage and death, sometimes soon, sometimes a little while later. There is also the question of cyanide, which many fish face today. Many of the lfs around only bring in the dwarf and medium ones special order because they can't even keep them alive long enough to sell them, one lfs owner told me " they always die".

I have rarely known anyone keeping a dwarf or medium bodied lion much more than 1.5 years that did not include live food in their diets. The volitans ans larger lions do seem more agreeable to accepting a variety of dead foods which gives them a long captive life.
 
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fishywishy

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When it comes to dwarf and medium bodied lions they are difficult to feed and many times will need live food to survive. Most hobbyist that do get their lions to eat dead food, feed them a diet lacking in proper nutrients and high in thiaminese, and they don't live long. Predator fish if fed at all during transport will be fed dying, diseased, and fresh dead fish; and will come in with internal parasites. If the hobbyist isn't up on this, the lion dies. Lions are very sensitive to copper and many suppliers, lfs, use copper in their systems, and this will cause internal organ damage and death, sometimes soon, sometimes a little while later. There is also the question of cyanide, which many fish face today. Many of the lfs around only bring in the dwarf and medium ones special order because they can't even keep them alive long enough to sell them, one lfs owner told me " they always die".

I have rarely known anyone keeping a dwarf or medium bodied lion much more than 1.5 years that did not include live food in their diets. The volitans ans larger lions do seem more agreeable to accepting a variety of dead foods which gives them a long captive life.
If you do feed them live food will they live there full life expectancy?
 
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lion king

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If you do feed them live food will they live there full life expectancy?

I have kept many close to a decade, volitans over a decade, you can find info in my threads and see many that I have documented through the years. In the wild, lions are reported to live between 10-15 years, the smaller varieties would be at the lower end, you never really know how old they are when you get them. So 7-10 years would be a good goal and reasonable expectation. In my threads I not only include diet recommendations but also info on observation and treatment if necessary. You'll see the current pride of lions I have now that I grew up from very small juveniles to close to full grown adults, my current pride is about 3 years in.

When doing research ask the source for info on how long they kept them and pictures. When you see a 4" fuzzy, regardless of what size that fuzzy was collected at, they have barely been in captivity for a year. They grow very fast to 4", and will be full grown, robust and over 6" about 2-3 years in. I've seen many sources through the years post beautiful pictures and tell people how to take care lions. But the one thing I always notice, there are no full grown adult lions, there's always pictures of new addition.
 
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fishywishy

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I have kept many close to a decade, volitans over a decade, you can find info in my threads and see many that I have documented through the years. In the wild, lions are reported to live between 10-15 years, the smaller varieties would be at the lower end, you never really know how old they are when you get them. So 7-10 years would be a good goal and reasonable expectation. In my threads I not only include diet recommendations but also info on observation and treatment if necessary. You'll see the current pride of lions I have now that I grew up from very small juveniles to close to full grown adults, my current pride is about 3 years in.

When doing research ask the source for info on how long they kept them and pictures. When you see a 4" fuzzy, regardless of what size that fuzzy was collected at, they have barely been in captivity for a year. They grow very fast to 4", and will be full grown, robust and over 6" about 2-3 years in. I've seen many sources through the years post beautiful pictures and tell people how to take care lions. But the one thing I always notice, there are no full grown adult lions, there's always pictures of new addition.
Have you ever taken care of a fu Manchu lion I couldn’t see anything in your threads, if you have are there harder than the fuzzy to take care of like they say they are and is it true they only get to about 4 inches.
 
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lion king

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1656971281061.png


Have you ever taken care of a fu Manchu lion I couldn’t see anything in your threads, if you have are there harder than the fuzzy to take care of like they say they are and is it true they only

I have kept a few, and they are harder to take care of. I have never seen any take enough or enough variety of dead food to survive long. My recommendation is to commit to a live diet if you want to keep one. They are super sensitive to any level of copper and must not be from a supplier that runs copper in their system. Here's a couple that I've kept, the 1st one I kept for over 8 years and was about 5.5".

1656971280819.png

1656971350628.png
 
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fishywishy

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I have kept a few, and they are harder to take care of. I have never seen any take enough or enough variety of dead food to survive long. My recommendation is to commit to a live diet if you want to keep one. They are super sensitive to any level of copper and must not be from a supplier that runs copper in their system. Here's a couple that I've kept, the 1st one I kept for over 8 years and was about 5.5".

1656971280819.png

1656971350628.png
How many times a week do you feed your lions?
 
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Islandvib3s

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When it comes to dwarf and medium bodied lions they are difficult to feed and many times will need live food to survive. Most hobbyist that do get their lions to eat dead food, feed them a diet lacking in proper nutrients and high in thiaminese, and they don't live long. Predator fish if fed at all during transport will be fed dying, diseased, and fresh dead fish; and will come in with internal parasites. If the hobbyist isn't up on this, the lion dies. Lions are very sensitive to copper and many suppliers, lfs, use copper in their systems, and this will cause internal organ damage and death, sometimes soon, sometimes a little while later. There is also the question of cyanide, which many fish face today. Many of the lfs around only bring in the dwarf and medium ones special order because they can't even keep them alive long enough to sell them, one lfs owner told me " they always die".

I have rarely known anyone keeping a dwarf or medium bodied lion much more than 1.5 years that did not include live food in their diets. The volitans ans larger lions do seem more agreeable to accepting a variety of dead foods which gives them a long captive life.
My lionfish was like this, I blame the keeper, just need to put in the time for them to learn to eat anything you give them. I've spent time with mine and will eat anything offered, dead,pellets, flakes, live. Now it eats from the auto feeder. When I first got it,it only ate live,or from tweezers while moving it.
 
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lion king

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My lionfish was like this, I blame the keeper, just need to put in the time for them to learn to eat anything you give them. I've spent time with mine and will eat anything offered, dead,pellets, flakes, live. Now it eats from the auto feeder. When I first got it,it only ate live,or from tweezers while moving it.
[/QUOTE

What are you feeding them, specifically, and how long have you them, thats the real point. And for every one that does decide to take a variety of dead food, there's a 100 that doesn't. And the bigger point, there is never a guarantee, more perish because if the lion decides not to eat dead food, or the hobbyist gives up, then they just let them starve to death. And if you are not including fatty fish and shells and guts and bone in their diet, they usually don't live long. And honestly when someone tells me their lion is eating flakes and pellets, well then... Other than stuffing chunks of food with pellets, these are not something that will sustain a lion for long. And I doubt a lion eating from a autofeedwr will live long at all, well I guess in the world of the internet.

I would love to see some pics or a video of them eating from the autofeeder. Them snatching a pellet or a flake here or there, or some mysis floating by, will not keep them alive long. If you are not target feeding, well then,,,,,
 
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fishywishy

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I have kept a few, and they are harder to take care of. I have never seen any take enough or enough variety of dead food to survive long. My recommendation is to commit to a live diet if you want to keep one. They are super sensitive to any level of copper and must not be from a supplier that runs copper in their system. Here's a couple that I've kept, the 1st one I kept for over 8 years and was about 5.5".
Do you think a fu manchu lion fish can eat a full grown ocellarus clownfish or if a clownfish can hold its own against one because ive heard clowns are aggressive at times?
 
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lion king

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Do you think a fu manchu lion fish can eat a full grown ocellarus clownfish or if a clownfish can hold its own against one because ive heard clowns are aggressive at times?

My big girl in the top photo I posted would eat them, but I'm not saying it isn;t possible. They are literally right on the border of the size a fu would easily eat. I started that one in a bc29 and tried to keep other fish with her before moving her to a 90g. She ate everyone, some fish that were about 2/3rds her size. She would stalk them and find out where they slept, camp outside their sleeping spot, and snag them when they got up and came out. She was unusually aggressive in comparison to other fu's, but you never know. She was also a very active swimmer.
 
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fishywishy

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My big girl in the top photo I posted would eat them, but I'm not saying it isn;t possible. They are literally right on the border of the size a fu would easily eat. I started that one in a bc29 and tried to keep other fish with her before moving her to a 90g. She ate everyone, some fish that were about 2/3rds her size. She would stalk them and find out where they slept, camp outside their sleeping spot, and snag them when they got up and came out. She was unusually aggressive in comparison to other fu's, but you never know. She was also a very active swimmer.
Sorry about all the questions your the first person ive seen that actually has experience with lions, but what do you think biggest fish a 4 inch fu Manchu lion fish can eat in your experience and if you keep one well fed will it still try to eat tank makes because my LFS said as long as there well feed it should be fine, is this true?
 
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lion king

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Sorry about all the questions your the first person ive seen that actually has experience with lions, but what do you think biggest fish a 4 inch fu Manchu lion fish can eat in your experience and if you keep one well fed will it still try to eat tank makes because my LFS said as long as there well feed it should be fine, is this true?

That whole "well fed" is nonsense; it's nature, they are ambush predators. If they can eat it, one day they will, it might be a year from now. You also have to be careful how you feed them, if you feed them too often they will die of fatty liver disease. They need to eat on a gorge/ fast feeding routine, so there's always 2-3 days of fasting between meals, that's when the opportunity of hunting their tankmates happens. A 4" fu can eat an average bodied fish about 2-2,5". But they will grow to at least 5". A robust bodied fish is safer than a slender bodied fish, occelaris clowns are robust but the fact is they usually get eaten if you keep the lion alive long enough.
 
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Mark Goode

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Sorry about all the questions your the first person ive seen that actually has experience with lions, but what do you think biggest fish a 4 inch fu Manchu lion fish can eat in your experience and if you keep one well fed will it still try to eat tank makes because my LFS said as long as there well feed it should be fine, is this true?
you seem determined to put a predator and its prey in the same tank. It's unlikely to work out for the prey...

I had been considering a dwarf lionfish, but only at a very early stage and before any research. After following this thread I've decided against it. I didn't know dwarf lions were so fussy about food. I had a Volitains lionfish once (about 40 years ago), he (let's assume 'he') took to dead food immediately and was always an enthusiastic feeder (as long as any food didn't settle on the bottom), squirting jets of water if I wasn't quick enough with his meal. He was always 'well fed'.

He was in a fish only tank, the only other occupant being a Picasso triggerfish. I got them when they were both quite small. The lionfish grew quickly, the trigger grew slowly, and one day I decided that the trigger was on borrowed time. reluctantly I traded him for a Spanish hogfish at least twice the size, and which was too big to fit in the lion's mouth. Once in the display tank the hogfish probably lasted a whole minute before disappearing down the lion's throat in a single gulp. The hogfish wouldn't fit in the lion's mouth, bit its shape meant it could still go down the lion's throat.

Lovely they may be, but Lionfish are eating machines.
 
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Kiboshed

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It's laughable that you think hobbyist have released lionfish into the ocean that has caused the invasion. Hobbyist can barely keep lionfish alive, and the dwarf species have such a high mortality rate that that's the reason they should stop being collected. As usual it's human involvement in the ecosysyem of nature that causes this situation. Humans destoy the natural predator of one species that causes this, they do it over and over again, then blamed the species and wage war. As an example sharks have been hunted to death for fear of "Jaws", and eels have been colected to near extinction in that region; both predztors of lionfish, and there's more.
So...How do you think lionfish who originate in the South Pacific and Indiana ocean got into the Gulf of Mexico? Natural migration? Hahahaha "Invasion" and "human involvement" are the same thing.

I mean... Not trying to say that Lions shouldn't be sold in the aquarim trade, but here in the US it's something people who live near the coast should be mindful of. Lionfish are destroying the gulf ecosystem because of stupid hobbyist who released them. Not saying there should be a ban, just wish people weren't stupid I guess.

Probably be the same if people started letting Lionfish loose in southern California.

This is true though for anyone who keeps any exotic animal across the globe. Don't be stupid, don't just let it go. It's why Florida and Texas are biological train wrecks in general.


 
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Tired

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From what I know, the answer is "they don't".

And wasn't a lot of the lionfish invasion problem started off by a few that escaped a public aquarium during hurricanes, then people releasing them on purpose because tourists liked to see them during dives? I mean, people dumping them won't help, but IIRC it was more than just people dumping an irresponsibly acquired pet or five.

(Besides, plenty of people live in land-locked areas, where they couldn't successfully release a lionfish if they wanted to.)
 
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