How do you know how much and how often to dose trace elements?

[Tbg299]

I recently purchased Tropic Marin A+ and K+. My total tank volume is 80 gallons and the recommended daily dose on the container just seems like a lot to me as are most of these additives. How do you know how much your corals actually need? Also is it possible to overdose on trace elements?

 

[lapin]

First : why do you think you need trace elements? Is your salt lacking in these or your corals not doing well?

 

[Spare time]

It is hard to tell how much your corals need. You can get test kits for some of these (such as potassium but tropic marin trace doesn't contain it for some weird reason). I have a salifert iodine and potassium test. Others use ICP to get a better picture. I don't do water changes so these things get drained in my tank (potassium very heavily). These are the only minor or trace kits I have.

 

[Lavey29]

First : why do you think you need trace elements? Is your salt lacking in these or your corals not doing well?

True, weekly water changes should suffice. If you go long between changes and have lots of corals then I can see where trace is needed.ICP test really the only way to determine whether you need to supplement.

 

[mehaffydr]

You should always only dose your aquarium if you have a test that shows you need to. The chances of you getting it right just randomly dosing because a bottle says so are slim to none. I would go with an ICP test and see if you really need anything before adding.

 

[Doctorgori]

I’ve tried but not really …I’ve dosed Iodine and witnessed some positive signs in softies but I’d be lying if I claimed to know what I’m doing …
eitherway I’ve never seen deaths caused by lack of some trace element …
just one option but I’d skip it

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

you have to test everyday, you can actually watch some elements decrease on a daily basis. For example, my alk decreases by about .6 every single day, that way I can figure out how much to dose.

You should be testing for a few months IMO to learn what your tank likes, to learn how fast elements are consumed, learn how water changes impact the tank.... then, when you know your tank properly you can make a judgement if dosing is right for your tank, or if water changes are sufficient.

Different animals consume differently elements at different paces, so every tank is different, no one can tell you how much to does in your tank.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I recently purchased Tropic Marin A+ and K+. My total tank volume is 80 gallons and the recommended daily dose on the container just seems like a lot to me as are most of these additives. How do you know how much your corals actually need? Also is it possible to overdose on trace elements?

In the absence of any measurements (which is going to be time consuming and expensive to determine), I'd stick to the recommended amount at the recommended interval.

The liquid volume added has nothing to do with the amount of each element added (that is, judging whether it is a lot or a little by the mL dosed is not useful), and Tropic Marin has presumably based the amounts on typical reef tank consumption rates.

 

[Tbg299]

In the absence of any measurements (which is going to be time consuming and expensive to determine), I'd stick to the recommended amount at the recommended interval.

The liquid volume added has nothing to do with the amount of each element added (that is, judging whether it is a lot or a little by the mL dosed is not useful), and Tropic Marin has presumably based the amounts on typical reef tank consumption rates.

I bought a Triton lab sample kit which I'm assuming will tell me what trace elements are in excess or deficient

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I bought a Triton lab sample kit which I'm assuming will tell me what trace elements are in excess or deficient

Yes, it can be helpful, but not perfect. It is a one time snapshot so only gives what is needed once. Whether that dose is ever needed again needs more testing.

I'd also be wary of anything except big differences in trace elements since accuracy may not be perfect, and some elements cannot be detected at natural levels by ICP-OES (as opposed to ICP-MS). Iron, for example:

My Triton Testing Results: By Randy Holmes-Farley - REEFEDITION

Recently, Triton GmbH in Germany has initiated a method of testing many ions at once for a single price. In the US, that service is coordinated by Unique Corals. For $49 they will send you a couple of tubes to collect a tank water sample, and a prepaid mailer to send the sample back to them...

www.reefedition.com

Iron (Fe). The natural iron level varies a lot with depth, but surface seawater may have only 0.006 µg/L. The Triton LOD = 0.3 µg/L. I dose iron, and when I dose it I boost iron to roughly 1-2 µg/L, which would be detectable. This sample was taken more than a week after the last iron dosing, and none was detected as it gets depleted in the meanwhile. I’ve not yet seen a Triton test result for a real aquarium sample that had detectable iron [edit: that part is no longer true, I've seen some], but that doesn’t mean these tanks are necessarily deficient. Iron is also a case where the form is critical, and ICP cannot distinguish form. Binding to organic matter, for example, can alter the bioavailability of iron.

 

[PatW]

Some trace element systems tag the trace element additions to your ALK or Ca consumption. The idea here is that as corals build skeletons, they will absorb a certain amount of trace elements.

But it is all a bit of groping in the dark. Most of the trace elements do not have tests that are useful for the reefer. And most reefers do not have access to an analytical chemistry lab.

Salt mixes have the trace elements that corals need. So water changes are a nice brute force method that is very effective.

 

[Feet Pixel]

I don't do water changes

Excuse my ignorance, how is this possible? it goes against everything i'm reading.

 

[Spare time]

Excuse my ignorance, how is this possible? it goes against everything i'm reading.

The only time I do it is when I'm cleaning my sump or one patch of the tank with low flow. I use carbon, socks, and a refugium as my export, and dose everything else back in.

 

[nano reef]

I’ve tried but not really …I’ve dosed Iodine and witnessed some positive signs in softies but I’d be lying if I claimed to know what I’m doing …
eitherway I’ve never seen deaths caused by lack of some trace element …
just one option but I’d skip it

I want to start dosing iodine! Someone posted pics of his zoas that had crazy long lashes and he said he dosed iodine and aminos. I just order brighwell aminos and want to start dosing that and I have lugols iodine. The instructions are so confusing on lugols! Do you dose that and did you test your iodine levels first?

I dont have an iodine test kit. Do you think I need one Because I just placed an order and could probably add to it and dont feel like spending the money on 2 icp tests for both tanks! Do you mind giving me some pointers on dosing iodine?

 

[gbru316]

I don't.

I trust that Aquaforest has done their homework when it comes to their 3 part system that includes trace elements.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I don’t know if iodine dosing is useful, but it’s a fine experiment to try. I never found it useful.

Bear in mind that Lugols is an unnatural and reactive form of iodine that may impact the bioavailability if other trace elements such as iron by oxidizing them.
When folks claim an effect with Lugols, it isn’t clear whether it is the iodine or dosing an oxidizer that had the effect.

 

[darrenc]

I want to start dosing iodine! Someone posted pics of his zoas that had crazy long lashes and he said he dosed iodine and aminos. I just order brighwell aminos and want to start dosing that and I have lugols iodine. The instructions are so confusing on lugols! Do you dose that and did you test your iodine levels first?

I dont have an iodine test kit. Do you think I need one Because I just placed an order and could probably add to it and dont feel like spending the money on 2 icp tests for both tanks! Do you mind giving me some pointers on dosing iodine?

Don't dose anything that your not testing for, you probably don't need to and if you do need to then you have absolutely no idea how much to add. To much iodine will result in darker corelli colours and increased algae growth.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Don't dose anything that you’re not testing for, you probably don't need to and if you do need to then you have absolutely no idea how much to add. Too much iodine will result in darker corelli colours and increased algae growth.

Welcome to REEF2REEF!

Hate to start off this way, but I don’t generally agree. I think that some things we dose (iron, amino acids, etc). are not always amenable to good testing, and observation of the system can help inform if it is useful or not.

 

[extra large lobos]

Welcome to REEF2REEF!

Hate to start off this way, but I don’t generally agree. I think that some things we dose (iron, amino acids, etc). are not always amenable to good testing, and observation of the system can help inform if it is useful or not.

Dude you don't eye ball a reef tank! Things get out of hand by the time you see a problem, (see above). Test test test. Your supposed to keep things balanced. And guys as far as dosing goes be very careful, when I was starting out I got rtn twice because I overlooked that I was using reef crystals and also dosing seachem- $$$ oops. Last thing, don't try pushing it. The guys you watch pushing pH and max dosing loose things too. Just push balancing and you will see the the best results from your ecosystem. When I made balancing my main concern my slowest growing brain corals have been bounding. I notice difference every month. Good luck

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Dude you don't eye ball a reef tank! Things get out of hand by the time you see a problem, (see above). Test test test. Your supposed to keep things balanced. And guys as far as dosing goes be very careful, when I was starting out I got rtn twice because I overlooked that I was using reef crystals and also dosing seachem- $$$ oops. Last thing, don't try pushing it. The guys you watch pushing pH and max dosing loose things too. Just push balancing and you will see the the best results from your ecosystem. When I made balancing my main concern my slowest growing brain corals have been bounding. I notice difference every month. Good luck

Welcome to reef2reef!

I'm sorry you do not feel that tank observation is a good way to judge a tank. I disagree.

Perhaps you did not specifically mean to direct your comments at me, but I am well aware of what can go wrong when adjusting reef parameters, and the ways to accomplish it without things going wrong.