How does Hydrogen Peroxide work in Dino Treatment

[taricha]

I missed this when first posted, so I'll comment now.

Raising pH will make ferric iron less soluble. Is that important? i do not know.

Adding peroxide likely does drive Fe++ to Fe+++.

Does a pH change alter the Fe++ / Fe+++ balance? It might, but I'm not 100% sure what controls the equilibrium ratio even if the oxidation is faster at higher pH as your link shows.

I'm not sure on the temp effect.

Thanks for taking the time to give a not-simple answer.

 

[medi]

Old thread I know, but I'm curious if you ever dosed H2O2. I've been battling, and am about to try it but am slightly terrified. I've read alot of hit or miss so still trying to decide if it's worth it.

 

[Spare time]

Peroxide encourages algae and bacteria growth which will outcompete dinos. It is also encourages pod growth and other micro fauna in your system.

But it also kills both of those and can damage other micro fauna

 

[malfist]

I dosed it. It seemed to work for a bit, and then it didn't. Also seemed to make some corals mad, but didn't kill any of them. Though I did stop dosing after a couple weeks.

Dosed phosphates, nitrates and silicates for 6+ months until my phosphates and nitrates were constantly reading worryingly high numbers and I had green stuff growing everywhere. Got a tang and greenstuff is under control. Cyano showed up and I let it be and it faded away.

If your tank is too small for a tang, you may have to find other herbivores.

 

[vetteguy53081]

But it also kills both of those and can damage other micro fauna

Used and recommended h2h20 and nothing but success reason why the low dosage

 

[Bitcoin Reefer]

Used and recommended h2h20 and nothing but success reason why the low dosage

Can you expand on this please Vetteguy? Are you saying that h202 works if you use low dosage you recommend in other posts at 1ml/10gallons?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Can you expand on this please Vetteguy? Are you saying that h202 works if you use low dosage you recommend in other posts at 1ml/10gallons?

Yes at night
Dino is photosynthetic and will break up with no light and peroxide will oxidize it causing flagellates to suspend itself

 

[alexanderthefishlover]

It converts iron from Fe++ to Fe+++, which is much less soluble, at least when not chelated to organics. Which form is more bioavailable at the same concentration is open to debate by scientists .

Disassembling Iron Availability to Phytoplankton

The bioavailability of iron to microorganisms and its underlying mechanisms have far reaching repercussions to many natural systems and diverse fields of research, including ocean biogeochemistry, carbon cycling and climate, harmful algal blooms, soil ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"Due to the greater solubility of Fe(II) compared to Fe(III), the occurrence of reductive processes and/or measurable Fe(II) concentrations is often equated with increased bioavailability."


It converts Cu++ to Cu+. What is more bioavailable may depend on the organism:

Chemical Speciation of Copper in a Salt Marsh Estuary and Bioavailability to Thaumarchaeota

The concentrations of dissolved copper (Cud), copper-binding ligands, thiourea-type thiols, and humic substances (HSCu) were measured in estuarine waters adjacent to Sapelo Island, Georgia, USA, on a monthly basis from April to December 2014. Here we present the seasonal cycle of copper...

www.frontiersin.org

"Cu uptake has been shown to be controlled by the oxidation state of the metal and by the metal:ligand ratio, rather than by the concentration of inorganic species of Cu in solution (Semeniuk et al., 2009). The speciation of Cu will affect its availability to microorganisms depending on whether uptake is as Cu(I) or Cu(II), as the uptake may involve a change in oxidation state with associated reaction rates. It is unclear whether Thaumarchaeota are acquiring the thiol-bound copper [as Cu(I)], or the humic-bound copper [as Cu(II)]."

Hi Randy I must be blind. I saw another poster say that hydrogen peroxide helps bacteria growth? How can this encourage bacterial growth when I feel like it actually kills it?

I just doses H2O2 2 ml in 20 gallons because I suspect I’m still battling Dino. I was stupid and added a low dose of seachem reef plus and it came back quickly.

I thought it was diatoms but I think it’s a combination.

I may just bring a sample to my LFS on Saturday is this keeps happening I’m so over whelmed honestly and I just feel like I can’t handle this and want to just get rid of the corlas and just have fish and do a total black out for 3 or 4
Days which I heard kills Dino? But, does it? Or will it keep coming back.

The UV seemed to have worked, it was gone and for days it was gone. Then, it came back so I suspected it was diatom. It has 0 bubbles but looks like stringy hair if I let it grow. Do diatoms look like that on the sand? Looks like a strand of hair here and there 0 bubbles. In fresh water it looks like powder and dusts off when you touch it. Is it the same in saltwater?

Im so overwhelmed. My phosphates will not go down, I turned my skimmer off. When I turn it on it seems to make the growth worse. So I turned it off again hoping that letting the phosphates and nitrates go up (dosing neonitro) would help the issue and again, at first it did.

Now just bought seachem PhosGusrd and I’m going to use a 33gram dose to try and help lower phosphate and remove silica and see if this brown crap goes.

I don’t know what else to do.

How long can SPS and soft corlas live without light? I heard 3 days?

Pelase sir, any advice pelase i feel so lost right now

 

[alexanderthefishlover]

I missed this when first posted, so I'll comment now.

Raising pH will make ferric iron less soluble. Is that important? i do not know.

Adding peroxide likely does drive Fe++ to Fe+++.

Does a pH change alter the Fe++ / Fe+++ balance? It might, but I'm not 100% sure what controls the equilibrium ratio even if the oxidation is faster at higher pH as your link shows.

I'm not sure on the temp effect.

I also saw this on another forum is this true??

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I have not, and do not, include hydrogen peroxide in the recommendations I make. It may be fine and it may be useful, but it is not a procedure that I recommend. IMO, most issues have better solutions and hydrogen peroxide has more effects than reefers generally recognize.

I'm not sure what you are asking about specifically, but some words used in that second posted picture are likely- used incorrectly and present a severe health hazard to the reefer if taken literally. DO NOT try to use neat hydrogen peroxide. It is an explosion hazard. The author probably means "as is" from the bottle, but doesn't say what concentration he intends.

Hydrogen peroxide does break down in a reef tank (hours) and in natural seawater (days), so it is not as fast of a breakdown as the posted comments suggest.

I do not recall ever saying hydrogen peroxide helps bacteria to grow. But it has many effects on chemicals, such as iron and copper, and those changes may help some organisms that cannot attain the trace elements before the peroxide and perhaps could afterwards.

Lowering nutrients is usually not a good approach to deal with actual dinos.

What are you nitrate and phosphate values currently?

 

[alexanderthefishlover]

I have not, and do not, include hydrogen peroxide in the recommendations I make. It may be fine and it may be useful, but it is not a procedure that I recommend. IMO, most issues have better solutions and hydrogen peroxide has more effects than reefers generally recognize.

I'm not sure what you are asking about specifically, but some words used in that second posted picture are likely- used incorrectly and present a severe health hazard to the reefer if taken literally. DO NOT try to use neat hydrogen peroxide. It is an explosion hazard. The author probably means "as is" from the bottle, but doesn't say what concentration he intends.

Hydrogen peroxide does break down in a reef tank (hours) and in natural seawater (days), so it is not as fast of a breakdown as the posted comments suggest.

I do not recall ever saying hydrogen peroxide helps bacteria to grow. But it has many effects on chemicals, such as iron and copper, and those changes may help some organisms that cannot attain the trace elements before the peroxide and perhaps could afterwards.

Lowering nutrients is usually not a good approach to deal with actual dinos.

What are you nitrate and phosphate values currently?

The nitrate and phos are nitrate 5PPM and phosphate .25PPM. Before, my nitrate was 0 and phos was .25.

I added neonitro but still this bloody stuff is here. Before UV seemed to help a lot. Now, nothing

 

[alexanderthefishlover]

I have not, and do not, include hydrogen peroxide in the recommendations I make. It may be fine and it may be useful, but it is not a procedure that I recommend. IMO, most issues have better solutions and hydrogen peroxide has more effects than reefers generally recognize.

I'm not sure what you are asking about specifically, but some words used in that second posted picture are likely- used incorrectly and present a severe health hazard to the reefer if taken literally. DO NOT try to use neat hydrogen peroxide. It is an explosion hazard. The author probably means "as is" from the bottle, but doesn't say what concentration he intends.

Hydrogen peroxide does break down in a reef tank (hours) and in natural seawater (days), so it is not as fast of a breakdown as the posted comments suggest.

I do not recall ever saying hydrogen peroxide helps bacteria to grow. But it has many effects on chemicals, such as iron and copper, and those changes may help some organisms that cannot attain the trace elements before the peroxide and perhaps could afterwards.

Lowering nutrients is usually not a good approach to deal with actual dinos.

What are you nitrate and phosphate values currently?

And well, Ssssshhooot…. I added 2 ml of H202 last night. It seems like the stuff is gone. Not sure if it’s really gone or what. But, I turned the light on now and we’ll see. Before it still was there in the mornings a bit. Today none at all. We’ll see. I won’t dose again the H202 then!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'm glad the pest is gone, whatever it was.

 

[alexanderthefishlover]

And well, Ssssshhooot…. I added 2 ml of H202 last night. It seems like the stuff is gone. Not sure if it’s really gone or what. But, I turned the light on now and we’ll see. Before it still was there in the mornings a bit. Today none at all. We’ll see. I won’t dose again the H202 then!

Today now there is a clear film like this?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I cannot see a film in the photo. Perhaps others who have treated dinos this way can comment on the observation.

 

[alexanderthefishlover]

I cannot see a film in the photo. Perhaps others who have treated dinos this way can comment on the observation.

I was almost wondering if it’s cyano given how it’s peeling like that and now clear after H202

 

[alexanderthefishlover]

I cannot see a film in the photo. Perhaps others who have treated dinos this way can comment on the observation.

If it were to come back, would it be fine to dose H202 for a 3 day period at 2 ml weighed on a scale, for 20 gallons?

What would the biggest risk factor be in doing this? Loss of beneficial bacteria? Spikes in toxins? You mentioned something about metals? I’m not a scientist so I don’t understand all of this.

My grandfather was a scientist, I am not simplification is best for me on these matters!

Thank you so much!

 

[Spare time]

The nitrate and phos are nitrate 5PPM and phosphate .25PPM. Before, my nitrate was 0 and phos was .25.

I added neonitro but still this bloody stuff is here. Before UV seemed to help a lot. Now, nothing

I am guessing you are using API test kits?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If it were to come back, would it be fine to dose H202 for a 3 day period at 2 ml weighed on a scale, for 20 gallons?

What would the biggest risk factor be in doing this? Loss of beneficial bacteria? Spikes in toxins? You mentioned something about metals? I’m not a scientist so I don’t understand all of this.

My grandfather was a scientist, I am not simplification is best for me on these matters!

Thank you so much!

If it comes back in a day or two, it suggests the treatment didn't really accomplish much, and I would not do it more than once again.

if it comes back in weeks, it is probably fine to try again.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I was almost wondering if it’s cyano given how it’s peeling like that and now clear after H202

Treatments for dinos and cyano are often quite different.