How I am beating Cyano without chemcials or GFO reactor

kupper57

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Thanks for the info! I have been having the same issues with my 6 month old 180gal reef tank. I change the socks every three days & have been doing water changes every 2 weeks. Sounds like it's time to step them up!
 

clsanchez77

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Many times too we see a cause/effect relationship that's a false positive

Nailed it, this one statement summarizes my issue with this whole hobby on the online forums. Way too much anecdotal evidence accepted as law.
 
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Ted_C

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Ted have you tried a drop or two of bacteria ?

I tried the vibrant product - which is supposed to contain some certain strains of bacteria. It did great on knocking back the GHA in the 300 and the bubble algae in the 150 (along with manual scrubbing / removal of course). The problem here is I think I moved towards a more unnatural state when I did this - which caused competitors to be consumed and exported by the vibrant product leaving a void that was filled by the cyano.

In effect - what this thread should be titled is how I am trying to correct an inbalance caused by the vibrant product :) Just kidding of course. Like I said - Vibrant worked great on the algae - but I dont think thats the way to go in a natural balanced system.

If your hinting at the article you posted previously: The majority (150 pounds) of the tank is dead pukani rock from BRS that went through the bleach / muriatic acid / long term cure. That much is true. However, I had also added around 20 pounds of live rock I had running in my 150. That rock was great: full of sponges, feather dusters, hydroids and the deep purple color we come to expect from years of good live rock. The 150 was originally seeded from some LFS live rock (FAOIS). Surprisingly i took a risk here with this rock - as it was in the system that was plagued with dinoflagelletes. While the bloom wasn't active (since I had knocked it back running so dirty that every surface of the tank was covered in bubble algae) - I knew that it was still present in the tank and the inhabitants. Since my theory is a balanced ecosystem - and the 300 was running well - I took the risk. The results? no serious dino blooms have occurred in the 300. I encourage everyone to read between the lines when I say "no serious" - I know I have dinos in the 300 - the trick is living with them and keeping the system in balance. If I were to run chemiclean or GFO or start exporting nutrients differently (or quickly) to kill off the cyano - then I guarantee you'd see a dinoflagellete outbreak.

So to summarize, I've never really ever tried to start a tank from completely dead rock - I've always used some seeded live rock with the dead rock.
 
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Ted_C

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Ok - I think we've gone on long enough in this discussion without pictures - so Enjoy! These were all taken just now after the weekly water change / filter sock change. Lights are up to their maximum intensity (20% on 145w Pacific Sun LEDs)

The 150:

From 6/25:
2017_06_25_150_FTS.jpg

From today:
2017_07_15_150_FTS.jpg


2017_07_15_150_Cyano_Glass.jpg


2017_07_15_150_Cyano_Returns.jpg


The 300:

2017_07_15_300_FTS.jpg


2017_07_15_300_Cyano_Overflow.jpg


2017_07_15_300_Cyano_Rocks.jpg


This is an example of what I'm liking to see - a bit of green is starting to show up within the cyano - indicating a return to balance.
2017_07_15_300_Cyano_Rocks_1.jpg


2017_07_15_300_Cyano_Rocks_2.jpg
 
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drtrash

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Had a similar experience with vibrant, chemiclean been working on balance by monitoring nutrients and adding or removing nutrients thru feeding and water changes. Took 2 months to clear up and see the balance. Have to say i learned alot because of vibrant and nopox, be patient and go back to basics
 

ParkPlace

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I've noticed the cyano starts growing on my rock when it starts getting detritus build up. So what seems to help me is taking a power head every other week and blowing off the rock as best I can. Sure a lot of it falls to the bottom, but that's when my clean up crew kicks in. I have lots of good sand sifters including cucumbers, starfish, and a variety of crabs and snails. I've tried to go with a more natural approach to my tank so I let the green algae grow on the back wall which the tangs love. I have one filter pad that the water flows through in the sump that gets cleaned once a week. No filter socks!!!! I use a Skimmer, Refugium with a variety of plants, and an algae scrubber (although it doesn't seem to grow much more than pods and green goop). I only do about a 20% water change every 3-4 months. This tank (150 gallon FOWLR has been going strong for almost 2 years now). My nitrates stay between 40-60, which I realize won't work for coral tanks.
I had previously been out of the hobby for about 20 years and returned to find a most interesting trend. Hobbyists seem to be very focused on creating a sterile environment in their tanks. So I went along with that for a while and found that every time I added a new fish to the tank, I would get an outbreak of some sort of disease (quarantine did not really help). I had the most issues with the fish I purchased from a local fish store that heavily doused their tanks with medications.
I stopped most of that nonsense and now add things that I catch directly from the ocean with no issues. (Full disclosure: I do dip everything in some Ruby Reef products just before they go in my tank which does seem to get rid of extra unwanted hitch hikers). Eventually, I'd like to experiment with additional natural methods of tank cleaning as I just can't believe that the current methods of constant water changes and chemicals is the most effective or efficient way to go. Any input is greatly appreciated.
 

Donovan Joannes

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It has been almost two years my 75G mixed reef (SPS dominant) has been keeping by iteself, taking care of nutrients balancing, producing live foods whilst keeeping algae close to nothing. I am on 75% warmer colored LED for 4 hours straight and no algae. No fuge, GFO, skimmer and or other filtration equipment. I made a high class twin condominium for bacteria, keep them happy with daily shot of VSV and nitrate steady below 3ppm. I stirred my sump everyday at night for 5 hours using pump, keep the fine detritus suspended as coral foods. My cost keeping nutrients low enough is roughly USD10 per year.
 

RoyalGrammaJohn

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One thing that always gets over looked is the TDS of the water that's coming out of your rodi , ro units. If you use water that has a low tds say around 5 it can accumulate and build up as you do water changes and in time the tds gets higher and cyano can use these elements to survive in a tank. Always use 0 tds rodi water. This has worked for me every time. When my tds starts reading above 0 I can still use it for a water change say if it's at 1 or 2 but if I do too many water changes with it I notice cyano starts to appear a little. Then when I go to 0 rodi it vanishes. Def see a difference.
 

Ebbi Flow

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So I Built put together a Mini Tank, has a Pump Supplying a Chaeto Reactor that Overflows into the Tank or the Ball Valve Return Water for movement back into the tank.
Not a mixing Station, but where I put water to just run, keep oxygenated and filled with emergency bacteria.

The Chaeto Reactor, I do small daily or twice a day adjustments from increasing flow to reactor and minimizing...
I Bio-load it from time to time.

I just harvested the Chaeto from reactor, kept bio loading, no carbon use...and out of no where Cyno plagued the reactor...
I examined the harvest, no real sign of Cyno..
The light runs 24/7..
I've only adjusted the flow since, waiting to see results after first week of not Bio-Loading setup...
 

Ebbi Flow

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So I Built put together a Mini Tank, has a Pump Supplying a Chaeto Reactor that Overflows into the Tank or the Ball Valve Return Water for movement back into the tank.
Not a mixing Station, but where I put water to just run, keep oxygenated and filled with emergency bacteria.

The Chaeto Reactor, I do small daily or twice a day adjustments from increasing flow to reactor and minimizing...
I Bio-load it from time to time.

I just harvested the Chaeto from reactor, kept bio loading, no carbon use...and out of no where Cyno plagued the reactor...
I examined the harvest, no real sign of Cyno..
The light runs 24/7..
I've only adjusted the flow since, waiting to see results after first week of not Bio-Loading setup...
Forgot Pictures, but nothing in harvested Chaeto, yes brown on outside...But nothing in tank, only reactor....but no carbon, no scrubbing, time to time salinity correction....

I originally did to just have small amounts of "Cultured Water!"
13d6969bf4e7f79e5e67ea2346bbe2a4.jpg
bcaf08169b9c17daecb56357f6f6c80b.jpg
51dafc50e8b7cc71a6f14dc9197683fd.jpg
 

Enzman

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Phosphates perhaps are binding to your rocks, media, anything and everything in your tank because they aren't being removed? I'm so surprised nobody has mentioned an algae scrubber. They can honestly pull phosphates out of your system naturally.
 

darkseeker

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I had a quite bad cyano problem 3 months ago. After using the Coral Snow, CyanoClean, and A-Balance, everything is under control now :)
 

Moo76

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one thing that always makes a big difference is plenty of water circulation.
You can never have too much - but it can be to strong. Spread it out and keep it plentiful and you will see a difference
 

Jimbo662

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Gotta follow this thread to keep up with all this great info. Right now I only run a skimmer and a little carbon in my two tanks. Battling different types in both tanks. I used Vibrant successfully in the 1st tank before I set up the 2nd tank. Even though I've continued dosing the stuff algae returned in the first tank. I've got 7 fish in one and 8 in the other and feed either half a cube of frozen or pellets each day. I'd really like to try a more natural method with them.
 

AcroJack

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Thanx. I thought my observation was right in line with what ted was saying.

I hate to put my ignorance on display, but its hard to hide sometimes.

When you said combine with some method of export- are you referring to like a protein skimmer or water changes or are you talking manual export via vacuuming sand bed and hand removal. My new plan is to put filter sock changes on a regular cycle, 3 days, and move to weekly wc's when possible due to work schedule.

Is there another method you are referring to or can recommend.?

Sorry, I should have clarified, yes some other method of removal like those you listed. Best of luck!
 

AcroJack

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Sorry, I should have clarified, yes some other method of removal like those you listed. Best of luck!

Kalkwasser dosing is also a great way to kick po4 in the shins, though I like to make sure where it is coming from first. To check if rocks are leeching, Take a rock out, put it in a container with fresh made saltwater, test every 12 hours and see if it creeps up on you over a day or two. If it does, there a few ways to get it down to a lower amount without having to spend a ton on GFO. Just a couple thoughts.
 
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Ted_C

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I'm breaking my rule of no chemicals (slightly) as I'm getting a little impatient with my progress and don't think I can achieve my goals through water changes and increased frequency of filter sock changes when I feed so much food.

I put two 46oz packages of Boyds Chemipure Elite into the 300. I put one 46oz package into the 150. I really rinsed the crap out of them before even thinking of putting in carbon with all the tangs I have. I'm still on my routine though - filter socks every two days and water changes once a week.

The 300 is starting to show signs of red cyano turning to brown something - I hope it's not dinos taking over the cyano hole.

Kalkwasser dosing is also a great way to kick po4 in the shins, though I like to make sure where it is coming from first. To check if rocks are leeching, Take a rock out, put it in a container with fresh made saltwater, test every 12 hours and see if it creeps up on you over a day or two. If it does, there a few ways to get it down to a lower amount without having to spend a ton on GFO. Just a couple thoughts.
Sorry - that's another myth. The calcium in Kalkwasser only can react with a certain type of PO4 and even then - kinetically - it hardly makes an impact.
https://nepis.epa.gov/Exe/tiff2png....NDEX DATA\70THRU75\TIFF\00002873\9101ESG4.TIF

Your pH has to be greater than 9.5 and even then the method to remove the phosphate is precipitation - so your going to need to get that out of the tank (still).
 

SPotter

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I love the idea of trying to beat this without chemicals but I gave up and did a chemi clean treatment. Cyano was gone 18 hrs later.
 
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