How late is your MindStream Monitor

How long is your monitor delayed

  • One Week Late

    Votes: 1 3.4%
  • Two Weeks Late

    Votes: 2 6.9%
  • Three Weeks Late

    Votes: 2 6.9%
  • One Month Late

    Votes: 3 10.3%
  • Two Months Late

    Votes: 2 6.9%
  • even longer

    Votes: 2 6.9%
  • Mine came within the specified time

    Votes: 6 20.7%
  • Still waiting, but currently on time.

    Votes: 11 37.9%

  • Total voters
    29
Status
Not open for further replies.

Hobby Sci

Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 11, 2018
Messages
7
Reaction score
6
Hey Everyone,

Going to post this in a couple of different places just for discussion.
Brief story on my end is, I placed my mindstream order August 22nd (Roughly 2 months ago).

Everyone knows they are not shipping out units as promised.

I thought I'd draw up a hypothetical scenario based on the costs of the MS and the costs of monthly discs. See GRAPH and TABLES below. (Note* Units in the graph have been normalized for the sake of showing trends)

Assuming that they produced the same number of discs every month and that they only received money once they shipped something out. Let's say 300 / month (Which would be high).
This means every month they would have to ship out another 300 discs. This quickly adds up. If sticking to this model alone. You would be the end of the year have shipped out a total of 27,000 discs to the ~ only 4,000 units that are on the market. Theoretical numbers...

If you look at the graph drawn it's clear that the total number of discs made (Gray Line) has to increase exponentially, whereas the total money made (Green Line) only increases linearly based on the units sold, the RED line. One reason is that the money made from a unit is SOO much higher than the money made from discs.

Interestingly enough they already have the setup to make both discs and MS units and can probably create the same number of them every month pretty easily. But increasing the # of discs produced every month is probably a real challenge and probably requires a lot of money. Essentially what it looks like they have decided to do is to limit the number of units sent out so that they can keep supplying the current users with discs. Keep pushing mindstream adds and pre-order sales because it's their main source of revenue. Essentially moving up the GREEN line without moving up the GRAY line, until they have the capital & resources to supply enough discs to account for the growth. I doubt the MS is going anywhere because it does seem like a very good product. But, I would not be surprised if in the future the price of monthly subscription would increase. ANYWAYS all of this is just conjecture on my end! I will keep patiently waiting because I think the product is worth it. I do wish that they would be more transparent about what is happening...
MindstreamGraphic.PNG
 
https://www.omegasea.net/

MnFish1

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 28, 2016
Messages
7,992
Reaction score
8,867
As has already been discussed ad nauseam, this information is probably more informative to people that haven't ordered one yet. Why do you keep asking this question?
Why do you think this is so important to those ordering the system? I mean - mention it once twice - sure - but I think the point is that some of us (myself included) have known since ordering that the delay was 6-8 weeks and a couple weeks after that it was changed to 8-10 weeks. Yet - it keeps getting repeated and repeated and repeated - often by the same person.

So - since I've asked the question - I'll explain why I ask it - its because I think with the hundreds of threads / forums here on R2R - why are people with no interest (apparent) in buying or ordering a product repeatedly posting negatively... I mean - I ordered one - I'm not happy with customer service - Im not a 'fanboy'. But - I am just curious - its not a 'mean' thing. It just seems odd (to me)
 

lexinverts

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 1, 2015
Messages
325
Reaction score
458
Location
Corvallis, OR
As has already been discussed ad nauseam, this information is probably more informative to people that haven't ordered one yet. Why do you keep asking this question?
Because Paul Sands never answers the question. He has not ordered one, yet is spending a lot of time and energy agitating about this device. It’s curious why someone would spend so much time attacking a company he has said that he has no intention of ever doing business with.
 

Silver14SS

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 8, 2017
Messages
1,700
Reaction score
2,950
Location
Charlotte, NC area
Because Paul Sands never answers the question. He has not ordered one, yet is spending a lot of time and energy agitating about this device. It’s curious why someone would spend so much time attacking a company he has said that he has no intention of ever doing business with.
I like people to be informed. If one potential customer becomes better informed because someone posts about the red flags, great! I don't think the company is very forthcoming, the order page still says 8-10 weeks, the social media is a lot of complaints answered with copy/paste responses. I feel like there is a lot of opportunity for them to be honest about things and they are choosing not to. That personally rubs me the wrong way.

I also feel that posting about how great a product will be prior to receiving it doesn't make sense. The only difference between a "hater" and someone waiting is $995. Both are commenting on the experience, neither has the product.

I hope you continue to be satisfied with yours :). Depending on how things shake out with the Mastertronic, and if SAI rights the ship, who knows if I'll end up with one or not.
 

bluprntguy

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 18, 2013
Messages
750
Reaction score
1,115
Location
San Francisco
Hey Everyone,

Going to post this in a couple of different places just for discussion.
Brief story on my end is, I placed my mindstream order August 22nd (Roughly 2 months ago).

Everyone knows they are not shipping out units as promised.

I thought I'd draw up a hypothetical scenario based on the costs of the MS and the costs of monthly discs. See GRAPH and TABLES below. (Note* Units in the graph have been normalized for the sake of showing trends)

Assuming that they produced the same number of discs every month and that they only received money once they shipped something out. Let's say 300 / month (Which would be high).
This means every month they would have to ship out another 300 discs. This quickly adds up. If sticking to this model alone. You would be the end of the year have shipped out a total of 27,000 discs to the ~ only 4,000 units that are on the market. Theoretical numbers...

If you look at the graph drawn it's clear that the total number of discs made (Gray Line) has to increase exponentially, whereas the total money made (Green Line) only increases linearly based on the units sold, the RED line. One reason is that the money made from a unit is SOO much higher than the money made from discs.

Interestingly enough they already have the setup to make both discs and MS units and can probably create the same number of them every month pretty easily. But increasing the # of discs produced every month is probably a real challenge and probably requires a lot of money. Essentially what it looks like they have decided to do is to limit the number of units sent out so that they can keep supplying the current users with discs. Keep pushing mindstream adds and pre-order sales because it's their main source of revenue. Essentially moving up the GREEN line without moving up the GRAY line, until they have the capital & resources to supply enough discs to account for the growth. I doubt the MS is going anywhere because it does seem like a very good product. But, I would not be surprised if in the future the price of monthly subscription would increase. ANYWAYS all of this is just conjecture on my end! I will keep patiently waiting because I think the product is worth it. I do wish that they would be more transparent about what is happening...
I'm not sure they are making money on the monitors. I'd be suspicious they are following the HP printers business model of selling the hardware for a loss in order to lock in consumers to a consumable disk that is sold at a massive profit. It is interesting to see the exponential increase in disks being sold.


Because Paul Sands never answers the question. He has not ordered one, yet is spending a lot of time and energy agitating about this device. It’s curious why someone would spend so much time attacking a company he has said that he has no intention of ever doing business with.
Perhaps because he's ignored you and never even sees your posts? That's what I'm gonna do!
 
Last edited:
Best reef aquarium LED lighting

Hobby Sci

Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 11, 2018
Messages
7
Reaction score
6
I'm not sure they are making money on the monitors. I'd be suspicious they are following the HP printers business model of selling the hardware for a loss in order to lock in consumers to a consumable disk that is sold at a massive profit. It is interesting to see the exponential increase in disks being sold.




Perhaps because he's ignored you and never even sees your posts? That's what I'm gonna do!
Hmm they have to be making some profit on the monitors to recuperate some costs of the startup. I mean one monitor is the same as 28 months of disc service. In the printer model you generally end up spending 10-15x in inc over the life of the product. Assuming these monitors will last you 5 years ish. You'd be looking at 3x at best. Did you order one by any chance? I am still excited to get mine. If it is good and matches close to my other test kits in the trial 45 days. I'd be happy to wait the time that I did.
 

Darrell Brady

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 2, 2015
Messages
222
Reaction score
169
I'm out done with this waiting I have ask for refund. Hope it all works out for the rest of you. Mindstream has a long way to go if there going to make it you can't leave your customers hanging like this. In less this was a plan for cash flow good luck ya'll. I will keep monitoring the threads to see how everything is going maybe jump back in if they ever get this fixed.
 

lexinverts

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 1, 2015
Messages
325
Reaction score
458
Location
Corvallis, OR
Perhaps because he's ignored you and never even sees your posts? That's what I'm gonna do!
Ok, fair enough. It's just that he's stated ad nauseum that he will never do business with this Reef2Reef sponsor, called them a fraud, etc... and now he is creating threads with polls about ordering this device. It's difficult to understand the motivation here. Others who have been critical on these pages have said they were actually interested in the device. But, I guess if it doesn't bother anyone else, carry on...
 

lexinverts

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 1, 2015
Messages
325
Reaction score
458
Location
Corvallis, OR
I'm out done with this waiting I have ask for refund. Hope it all works out for the rest of you. Mindstream has a long way to go if there going to make it you can't leave your customers hanging like this. In less this was a plan for cash flow good luck ya'll. I will keep monitoring the threads to see how everything is going maybe jump back in if they ever get this fixed.
If I had been waiting that long, I think I would do the same thing.
 

Darrell Brady

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 2, 2015
Messages
222
Reaction score
169
I had to cancel through email tried calling left voice mail ask them please to call me but never got a response. they should have my money in 3 to 5 days.
 
OP
Paul Sands

Paul Sands

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
May 7, 2019
Messages
344
Reaction score
424
I had to cancel through email tried calling left voice mail ask them please to call me but never got a response. they should have my money in 3 to 5 days.
Did mindstream ever respond and confirm that they received your cancellation?
 
OP
Paul Sands

Paul Sands

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
May 7, 2019
Messages
344
Reaction score
424
Hmm they have to be making some profit on the monitors to recuperate some costs of the startup. I mean one monitor is the same as 28 months of disc service. In the printer model you generally end up spending 10-15x in inc over the life of the product. Assuming these monitors will last you 5 years ish. You'd be looking at 3x at best. Did you order one by any chance? I am still excited to get mine. If it is good and matches close to my other test kits in the trial 45 days. I'd be happy to wait the time that I did.
If they break even on the monitor and make a 50% profit on the discs, they are at an overall 20% profit. That’s generally what large tech hardware companies like Samsung make. A smaller niche firm like mindstream will be lucky to make 10% profit and probably even less if they really are manufacturing them in the US.
 

Hobby Sci

Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 11, 2018
Messages
7
Reaction score
6
If they break even on the monitor and make a 50% profit on the discs, they are at an overall 20% profit. That’s generally what large tech hardware companies like Samsung make. A smaller niche firm like mindstream will be lucky to make 10% profit and probably even less if they really are manufacturing them in the US.
You're probably right. For their sake I hope it's more... For the amount of time they have spent developing it... Ill be sad if it sucks once I get mine. 45 day guarantee is the only reason I decided to jump in on something new like this.
 

KJoFan

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Messages
1,616
Reaction score
951
Location
MN
Doesn't matter if it's a young company or an old one. If they started taking money from people, they should have done enough legwork to insure they can deliver what they promised. If they didn't, then it's incompetence at best.
I don't think anyone is disagreeing there's been a bit of incompetence thus far. Most of us are hoping they're able to pull it together and find their way to calmer seas. The rest are hoping they sink and can say "i told you so".
 

Silver14SS

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 8, 2017
Messages
1,700
Reaction score
2,950
Location
Charlotte, NC area
The rest are hoping they sink and can say "i told you so".
While being right is a very satisfying feeling, I don't hope they sink, the evidence just makes me think it's more likely than being successful. Look into their history, 7+ years of trying to get this thing out, over $7M raised, then this is the big release? Some see their persistence as a positive thing, others see it as a track record of failure.

Some of the supporters come across as focusing only on the positive, with perhaps too much wishful thinking. That tends to bring out the more negative feedback when a supporter won't admit that the rollout has been a train wreck. The red flags are now flashing red strobe lights if they've stopped responding to customer contact as many have reported.
 

KJoFan

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Messages
1,616
Reaction score
951
Location
MN
While being right is a very satisfying feeling, I don't hope they sink, the evidence just makes me think it's more likely than being successful. Look into their history, 7+ years of trying to get this thing out, over $7M raised, then this is the big release? Some see their persistence as a positive thing, others see it as a track record of failure.

Some of the supporters come across as focusing only on the positive, with perhaps too much wishful thinking. That tends to bring out the more negative feedback when a supporter won't admit that the rollout has been a train wreck. The red flags are now flashing red strobe lights if they've stopped responding to customer contact as many have reported.
I can't say I have a strong opinion one way or the other. I haven't run a business so who am I to say? I can say what I want to see as a consumer, but we don't really know what's going on internally. And yes, I have seen all the arguments about better communication and transparancy. I don't disagree they could do better. But beyond that, it's really all speculation. Both sides have built this up into something that's way beyond reality regardless of which side of the fence you're on. And, if I'm being honest, I would imagine both sides are poised to say "I told you so" depending which way this all turns out.
 
Corals.com
Status
Not open for further replies.

Do you run TWO return pumps for redundancy and to be safe? (check all that apply)

  • Yes I run two return pumps..

    Votes: 126 22.0%
  • No it's a waste..

    Votes: 67 11.7%
  • No but I would like to..

    Votes: 138 24.1%
  • No but I have a spare return pump...

    Votes: 273 47.6%

Online statistics

Members online
1,635
Guests online
3,864
Total visitors
5,499
AquaLocker.com
Top