How many fish in a 7’x2’x2’ tank?

Zionas

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Glad to help. I think you may be able to do two but three Rabbitfish is one too many. A Foxface and a non-Foxface would make for some contrast. Having that many in an 8 foot tank isn’t what I’d do personally, but hey if it works and the owner’s happy that’s good. They do also tend to be social fish that travel in groups in the wild, although I am not sure if they travel in groups as large as that of many Tangs. What I do know is on average they’re more peaceful, even skittish, so bullying / incidents of aggression regarding Siganidae as a whole from my experience, tend to be rare compared to many of their Acanthurid cousins.

I think your idea of building the tank around Tilefish social interactions could be a very interesting one and I’d love to see how it turns out. The Tilefish that form the bulk of your stocking for this family all belong to the “Flashing Tilefish”, so while there may be temperamental and maybe some minor differences between species, in my opinion they will have the same basic requirements though I could be totally wrong as I don’t know much about them. I am not sure how they go with Dartfish but since they are all relatively peaceful and even shy fish, I don’t think it would be too bad.

I think with the fish you are considering, since Tilefish will be your focus, it would be best not to have any overly aggressive fish especially not ones that are bottom dwellers. Regarding the Hawkfish, in a 7ft 210 I think there would be enough space for them to coexist peacefully. They like to perch more than remain on the bottom.

I actually like you are keeping it (almost) Tang-less. Tangs are all the buzz so it’s really refreshing to me to see someone do a big shift away from them. I am personally not really into a tank full of different Tangs swimming around, it’s frankly boring.

Onto the butterflies, quite a list you’ve got there (though I know it’s been narrowed since). I would pick at most, two of the more difficult ones that normally have relatively more specialized diet requirements, and let the other two be ones with better records (as far as butterflies go) in captivity.

Looking at your list, according to my research the ones that have a not so bad reputation in captivity are:

1. Madagascar
2. Semilavartus (though some people can’t get them to do well, others can)
3. Burgess (deepwater fish, will have to pay more though it’s the most affordable in the subgenus Roaps)
4. Pakistan (though some people have trouble with them getting infections and getting them to eat)
5. Mueller’s Coralfish (Chelmon)
6. Marginal Coralfish (Chelmon)
7. The Prognathodes

I see issues with Falcifer and Marcellae. Falcifer because it is a rare and deepwater fish that needs cooler temperatures, and Marcellae because it is native to the West African coast where natural coral reefs don’t grow due to a lack of warm ocean currents, and thus also requires cooler temperatures. Aculeatus would probably be your best shot at getting a member of this genus to thrive at normal reef temperatures. There was a member here called pcon who keeps one in his reef (albeit at a slightly lower temperature due to some of his other deepwater fish) and he said the Aculeatus wasn’t as easy to condition as he thought due to it being a shy and picky feeder at first, though it’s settled in well.

The rest of the butterflies on your list belong to the difficult / very difficult category mostly due to their dietary requirements.

The two non-Copperband…. Copperbands may be hardier than the standard Copperband though Bob Fenner of Wet Web Media believes that the Marginalis and Muelleri are actually less hardy than the standard Copperband. As for whether this has any truth, I cannot say. But I’d imagine that if you can get a Copperband to thrive, neither of these two should present an issue.

It’s great that you will be able to get your hands on an Eibli x Lemonpeel. It will look awesome.

Looking forward to this tank being set up and coming to fruition. It’s good to take things gradually and slowly. If you want to look into any other fish I’ll try my best to see what I can find about it.

I would also get the butterflies settled early on before adding them to a very crowded tank. This is to make sure they don’t get too stressed and are eating well.
 
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Glad to help. I think you may be able to do two but three Rabbitfish is one too many. A Foxface and a non-Foxface would make for some contrast. Having that many in an 8 foot tank isn’t what I’d do personally, but hey if it works and the owner’s happy that’s good. They do also tend to be social fish that travel in groups in the wild, although I am not sure if they travel in groups as large as that of many Tangs. What I do know is on average they’re more peaceful, even skittish, so bullying / incidents of aggression regarding Siganidae as a whole from my experience, tend to be rare compared to many of their Acanthurid cousins.

I think your idea of building the tank around Tilefish social interactions could be a very interesting one and I’d love to see how it turns out. The Tilefish that form the bulk of your stocking for this family all belong to the “Flashing Tilefish”, so while there may be temperamental and maybe some minor differences between species, in my opinion they will have the same basic requirements though I could be totally wrong as I don’t know much about them. I am not sure how they go with Dartfish but since they are all relatively peaceful and even shy fish, I don’t think it would be too bad.

I think with the fish you are considering, since Tilefish will be your focus, it would be best not to have any overly aggressive fish especially not ones that are bottom dwellers. Regarding the Hawkfish, in a 7ft 210 I think there would be enough space for them to coexist peacefully. They like to perch more than remain on the bottom.

I actually like you are keeping it (almost) Tang-less. Tangs are all the buzz so it’s really refreshing to me to see someone do a big shift away from them. I am personally not really into a tank full of different Tangs swimming around, it’s frankly boring.

Onto the butterflies, quite a list you’ve got there (though I know it’s been narrowed since). I would pick at most, two of the more difficult ones that normally have relatively more specialized diet requirements, and let the other two be ones with better records (as far as butterflies go) in captivity.

Looking at your list, according to my research the ones that have a not so bad reputation in captivity are:

1. Madagascar
2. Semilavartus (though some people can’t get them to do well, others can)
3. Burgess (deepwater fish, will have to pay more though it’s the most affordable in the subgenus Roaps)
4. Pakistan (though some people have trouble with them getting infections and getting them to eat)
5. Mueller’s Coralfish (Chelmon)
6. Marginal Coralfish (Chelmon)
7. The Prognathodes

I see issues with Falcifer and Marcellae. Falcifer because it is a rare and deepwater fish that needs cooler temperatures, and Marcellae because it is native to the West African coast where natural coral reefs don’t grow due to a lack of warm ocean currents, and thus also requires cooler temperatures. Aculeatus would probably be your best shot at getting a member of this genus to thrive at normal reef temperatures. There was a member here called pcon who keeps one in his reef (albeit at a slightly lower temperature due to some of his other deepwater fish) and he said the Aculeatus wasn’t as easy to condition as he thought due to it being a shy and picky feeder at first, though it’s settled in well.

The rest of the butterflies on your list belong to the difficult / very difficult category mostly due to their dietary requirements.

The two non-Copperband…. Copperbands may be hardier than the standard Copperband though Bob Fenner of Wet Web Media believes that the Marginalis and Muelleri are actually less hardy than the standard Copperband. As for whether this has any truth, I cannot say. But I’d imagine that if you can get a Copperband to thrive, neither of these two should present an issue.

It’s great that you will be able to get your hands on an Eibli x Lemonpeel. It will look awesome.

Looking forward to this tank being set up and coming to fruition. It’s good to take things gradually and slowly. If you want to look into any other fish I’ll try my best to see what I can find about it.

I would also get the butterflies settled early on before adding them to a very crowded tank. This is to make sure they don’t get too stressed and are eating well.
Your information is so wide, it’s great!! I got a book earlier on tangs, rabbits and their relatives, I found one that I like the look of. If it’s not too much of a hassle I’d love to know more on it. I’ve been debating on changing the tang to this one.
image.jpg
 

Zionas

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I say why not?

And you’re welcome. I just happen to have a number of books + a good memory of this stuff haha, it’s a passion for me as I am sure it is for you. Rudie Kuiter and Scott W. Michael tend to have a good number of resources. Gerard Allen, Jack Randall, Roger Steene and Richard Pyle are big names in icthyology but their publications tend to be a bit older so not as easy to grab a hold of.
 
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Figured now I’m isolating, it would be a good idea to change the stocking and probably stick with a clean slate and have more pairs/harems of different species of fish. I have an idea on the families (Acanthuridae, Gobiidae, blenniiformes, ect…) just to figure out how they cope in the wild and how they prefer it (Pairs, Singularly or Harems).
image.jpg
 
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So far it seems rabbitfish and butterflyfish both have monogamous pairs so, on the list at the moment are:
2 Siganus magnificus
2 C. burgessi OR 2 C. xanthurus.

Now to deal with the angels, Zionas you seem really knowledgeable on this so how do angels prefer to be? Is it in pairs or harems? I’d like atleast one medium Angel and a couple dwarfs (Anything that fits under that category, the genus doesn’t matter right now).
 

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Your information is so wide, it’s great!! I got a book earlier on tangs, rabbits and their relatives, I found one that I like the look of. If it’s not too much of a hassle I’d love to know more on it. I’ve been debating on changing the tang to this one.
image.jpg
do you know if a tang like this is available and when yes, is that a rare thing to happen?
 
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do you know if a tang like this is available and when yes, is that a rare thing to happen?
I haven’t found much on them but would assume they’re available around the same time as the true striatus, I can’t really tel you much on the rarity since I’ve never seen one in person but I think if you showed the LFS a photo of it they could try get one in as the common name they know it as?
 
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So, after some research of how these fish behave in the wild and like it I went with. Ones with ‘or’ in between are a debating species with which would be better suited:

Butterflyfish:
Chaetodon burgessi x2
OR
Chaetodon xanthurus x2
OR
A corallivorous butterflyfish such as the ornate x2
Rabbitfish:
Siganus magnificus x2
Angelfish:
Pygoplites diacanthus x2
Centropyge acanthops x2-3
Centropyge eibli x Centropyge flavissimus
Jawfish:
Opistognathus aurifons x2-3
Wrasse:
Macropharyngodon negrosensis x2
Macropharyngodon choati x2
OR
Macropharyngodon kuiteri x2
Halichoeres iridis x2-3
OR
Halichoeres adornatus x2-3
OR
Halichoeres leucoxanthus x2-3
Cirrhilabrus isosceles (Probably not since it’s hard to keep Cirrhilabrus wrasses from changing gender, even in groups)
Cirrhilabrus lubbocki (Same thing as above)
Anampses femininus x2
OR
Anampses neoguinaicus x2
Anampses meleagris x2
OR
Anampses lineatus x2
Gobies:
Stonogobiops yasha x2
Gobiiodon strangulatus x4
Koumansetta hectori x2
Blennies:
Meiacanthus mossambicus x2
Dragonets:
Synchiropus pictatus x2-3
Synchiropus stellatus x2-3
OR
Synchiropus scycorax x2-3
Tilefish:
Hoplolatilus chlupatyi x3-4
Hoplolatilus marcosi x2
Hoplolatilus purpureus x2
OR
Hoplolatilus cuniculus x2
Tang:
Ctenochaetus flavicauda
OR
Ctenochaetus binotatus

So, it’s sat at I think 50+ fish if you added them ALL together, but if you just count the ones with ‘Or’ as 2-3 depending on how many go in, it’s at… a minimum of 45 and a maximum of 51.

The tang is just an extra incase of algae the foxface wouldn’t eat but I feel like I can get rid of it due to the hopes of having Atleast a pair of most of these fish if they’re possible in a 7’x2’x2’ tank.
 
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So, after some research of how these fish behave in the wild and like it I went with. Ones with ‘or’ in between are a debating species with which would be better suited:

Butterflyfish:
Chaetodon burgessi x2
OR
Chaetodon xanthurus x2
OR
A corallivorous butterflyfish such as the ornate x2
Rabbitfish:
Siganus magnificus x2
Angelfish:
Pygoplites diacanthus x2
Centropyge acanthops x2-3
Centropyge eibli x Centropyge flavissimus
Jawfish:
Opistognathus aurifons x2-3
Wrasse:
Macropharyngodon negrosensis x2
Macropharyngodon choati x2
OR
Macropharyngodon kuiteri x2
Halichoeres iridis x2-3
OR
Halichoeres adornatus x2-3
OR
Halichoeres leucoxanthus x2-3
Cirrhilabrus isosceles (Probably not since it’s hard to keep Cirrhilabrus wrasses from changing gender, even in groups)
Cirrhilabrus lubbocki (Same thing as above)
Anampses femininus x2
OR
Anampses neoguinaicus x2
Anampses meleagris x2
OR
Anampses lineatus x2
Gobies:
Stonogobiops yasha x2
Gobiiodon strangulatus x4
Koumansetta hectori x2
Blennies:
Meiacanthus mossambicus x2
Dragonets:
Synchiropus pictatus x2-3
Synchiropus stellatus x2-3
OR
Synchiropus scycorax x2-3
Tilefish:
Hoplolatilus chlupatyi x3-4
Hoplolatilus marcosi x2
Hoplolatilus purpureus x2
OR
Hoplolatilus cuniculus x2
Tang:
Ctenochaetus flavicauda
OR
Ctenochaetus binotatus

So, it’s sat at I think 50+ fish if you added them ALL together, but if you just count the ones with ‘Or’ as 2-3 depending on how many go in, it’s at… a minimum of 45 and a maximum of 51.

The tang is just an extra incase of algae the foxface wouldn’t eat but I feel like I can get rid of it due to the hopes of having Atleast a pair of most of these fish if they’re possible in a 7’x2’x2’ tank.
I’d probably replace the second magnificent foxface with a Tongan black, I mean look at the pictures of Tongan black foxfaces, to see one in person would be a dream come true. Here’s a photo from Quality marine of one:
5DB7832D-1931-4FF7-9586-820C56290032.jpeg

And, The one from LA:
4E839A3F-5F5E-40DB-B49E-3DEC8BEDD61D.jpeg
 

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