How much is the fish store accountable if they sell me a fish and I don't quarantine?

[amcclow]

Hi all, I'm new to the forum so apologies for the newbie question. I have a 90-gal tank that I've had for 2 years now. Twice in the last two years, my tank has crashed after putting a new fish in from the local fish store. It is a fish only tank -- pretty straight forward. Here's the thing -- I've never quarantined my fish when buying them, although I will be from now on. What are your thoughts on any level of responsibility of the local store that sold me the fish that killed my others? Last year, the infected fish wiped all of my others out with a velvet infection. This year, it was ich. I'm clearly learning a lot about what not to do, but I don't what, if anything, to say to the local store owner. They are really good guys -- love the help I normally get from them, but the reality is that a fish from their store has killed off a lot of my existing fish. Thoughts?

 

[Eric Cohen]

Hi all, I'm new to the forum so apologies for the newbie question. I have a 90-gal tank that I've had for 2 years now. Twice in the last two years, my tank has crashed after putting a new fish in from the local fish store. It is a fish only tank -- pretty straight forward. Here's the thing -- I've never quarantined my fish when buying them, although I will be from now on. What are your thoughts on any level of responsibility of the local store that sold me the fish that killed my others? Last year, the infected fish wiped all of my others out with a velvet infection. This year, it was ich. I'm clearly learning a lot about what not to do, but I don't what, if anything, to say to the local store owner. They are really good guys -- love the help I normally get from them, but the reality is that a fish from their store has killed off a lot of my existing fish. Thoughts?

The Fish Store has zero accountability. If you were there, saw the fish in "good health", and made the decision to purchase it, the liability of the fish store ends the minute you walk out the door. Some stores give guarantees, while others don't. Very few stores quarantine or condition their fish.....it's just not cost effective...You can purchase from a vendor that does, or do it yourself. Learning how to best QT a fish is part of the beauty of the hobby imo, and there are a lot of resources online to guide you through the process, depending on what type of fish you have. Sorry about your challenges....we all have and still go through them.

 

[sde1500]

For me fish health has been one of the toughest parts of the hobby, but most every fish I have purchase has been thoroughly watched by me while at the store. I would never put it on the LFS, only time I would consider that is online orders where fish come in visibly sick.

 

[rtparty]

Both are at fault IMO. As a hobby, we need to stop giving stores a pass for selling unhealthy livestock. They KNOW and we KNOW that every fish is going through hell to get to us and is hit with every parasite and disease out there. A store not willing to QT should go out of business.

Can you imagine going to buy a puppy and it is secretly sick but “looks in good health” so you purchase it to only it have it kill your other 10 dogs? We’d never accept that but we do with fish all the time.

I won’t shop at any of my LFS because none of them condition or QT their stuff. Some say they do but one look around shows that is a lie. I now buy all my fish from Dr Reef and have them conditioned. Everything has been amazing so far and my success level has skyrocketed.

 

[skydirt]

None

 

[cww81]

I agree with the others and unless the store offers some kind of guarantee, it’ll fall on the customer. There are some great online vendors that quarantine their fish but it will cost a bit more but greatly worth it if you want a clean healthy fish or don’t want to go through the quarantine process yourself.

 

[exnisstech]

Sorry but its on you to QT. I tend to be a stubborn at times but it only took one velvet outbreak to get me to QT all new fish. You already had velvet before and now ich and you are wondering if you should blame the lfs Observation at the store may help, may not. I like to check salinity at the store and if its really low 1.015 -1.019 I buy else where. I believe (with no scientific data to back it up) That the low salinity levels can suppress disease that can then exhibit itself at normal levels 1.025 etc.

Both are at fault IMO. As a hobby, we need to stop giving stores a pass for selling unhealthy livestock. They KNOW and we KNOW that every fish is going through hell to get to us and is hit with every parasite and disease out there. A store not willing to QT should go out of business.

If the OP didn't know the fish was sick how is the LFS supposed to know? Fish in fish out its how the money is made. It would be different if they represented them as quarantined. Your statement would result in the LFS going out of business which is not what I would like to see. If you QT then you know how much time and work is involved and I would not expect a lfs to do that unless they are set up for it and they advertise it. If they do not state the fish are QTed then it is on you plain and simple. Like buying a used car as it. But of course many people do not understand what than means either.

 

[PicassoDan]

none. Unless the fish was advertised as having already been quarantined and disease-free.

 

[spsick]

It’s sounds like you like this LFS. Have you talked to them at all about it?

Sure they don’t have any liability but maybe they wish to keep your future business. And maybe you want to see how they react to being presented with a pretty common scenario.

 

[vtecintegra]

Assume there is disease in every tank at the LFS, and every fish is infected with something. Establish a quarantine protocol before putting any new fish in your tank if you want success.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi all, I'm new to the forum so apologies for the newbie question. I have a 90-gal tank that I've had for 2 years now. Twice in the last two years, my tank has crashed after putting a new fish in from the local fish store. It is a fish only tank -- pretty straight forward. Here's the thing -- I've never quarantined my fish when buying them, although I will be from now on. What are your thoughts on any level of responsibility of the local store that sold me the fish that killed my others? Last year, the infected fish wiped all of my others out with a velvet infection. This year, it was ich. I'm clearly learning a lot about what not to do, but I don't what, if anything, to say to the local store owner. They are really good guys -- love the help I normally get from them, but the reality is that a fish from their store has killed off a lot of my existing fish. Thoughts?

Low level as it is an industry standard to prep tank for fish, acclimate and quarantine if necessary. The store would be accountable if they recommended NO QT which is not the case.
No insult intended, but after the first fish loss, you would then have a notion to quarantine moving forward. I can encourage you to buy qT fish from Dr Reef and Reef Pro who sell healthy fish hence the shipping costs added

 

[nothing_fancy]

Seems like the majority of folks in the hobby myself included have learned the true value of quarantining livestock the hard way. Once it goes into the DT the idea is that you're going to take care of it for a long time, hopefully many years so what's a month of quarantining in the long run? I personally believe it makes for a better adjustment into the main system regardless of any potential diseases the fish might be carrying. For one example, they can become adjusted to the foods you feed without any stress or competition from other fish.

 

[rtparty]

Sorry but its on you to QT. I tend to be a stubborn at times but it only took one velvet outbreak to get me to QT all new fish. You already had velvet before and now ich and you are wondering if you should blame the lfs Observation at the store may help, may not. I like to check salinity at the store and if its really low 1.015 -1.019 I buy else where. I believe (with no scientific data to back it up) That the low salinity levels can suppress disease that can then exhibit itself at normal levels 1.025 etc.


If the OP didn't know the fish was sick how is the LFS supposed to know? Fish in fish out its how the money is made. It would be different if they represented them as quarantined. Your statement would result in the LFS going out of business which is not what I would like to see. If you QT then you know how much time and work is involved and I would not expect a lfs to do that unless they are set up for it and they advertise it. If they do not state the fish are QTed then it is on you plain and simple. Like buying a used car as it. But of course many people do not understand what than means either.

My opinion is it is on the LFS to know it’s sick. At a bare minimum a good LFS will assume a fish is sick and observe it. Any store not doing this shouldn’t be in business. It’s unreal how many in this hobby just accept that sick fish are status quo and that is somehow okay

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

My opinion is it is on the LFS to know it’s sick. At a bare minimum a good LFS will assume a fish is sick and observe it. Any store not doing this shouldn’t be in business. It’s unreal how many in this hobby just accept that sick fish are status quo and that is somehow okay

I know what you mean, it can be pretty difficult to detect sickness right away though and some fish are sold before proper observations can be made. I personally feel part of the reason the use low salinity at some shops is to more hide some of the illnesses than anything which is definitely not cool.

 

[amcclow]

It’s sounds like you like this LFS. Have you talked to them at all about it?

Sure they don’t have any liability but maybe they wish to keep your future business. And maybe you want to see how they react to being presented with a pretty common scenario.

yes, I have. It's a hard situation all around, I think. Clearly, how can they be "responsible" for me putting a new fish directly into my DT. But you would think that they would say, "hey, you KNOW that you have to quarantine fish before putting them in your display tank". I'm a newbie, yes. I don't know much about this hobby other than that I love looking at the fish. Now I've learned that I either need to learn and do a LOT more or just empty and sell my tank. The fact that I'm on this forum should tell you what direction I've gone.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

yes, I have. It's a hard situation all around, I think. Clearly, how can they be "responsible" for me putting a new fish directly into my DT. But you would think that they would say, "hey, you KNOW that you have to quarantine fish before putting them in your display tank". I'm a newbie, yes. I don't know much about this hobby other than that I love looking at the fish. Now I've learned that I either need to learn and do a LOT more or just empty and sell my tank. The fact that I'm on this forum should tell you what direction I've gone.

Glad you're not giving up!! May i suggest an observational QT as a possible solution if a traditional QT is going to be an issue? Personally i don't think treatment with all those chemicals is healthy for the fish for one thing and while an observational QT certainly isn't foolproof, it can reduce the chances of an infected fish getting in your tank. If you do wanna do the full QT protocol though, go right ahead!

 

[amcclow]

I know what you mean, it can be pretty difficult to detect sickness right away though and some fish are sold before proper observations can be made. I personally feel part of the reason the use low salinity at some shops is to more hide some of the illnesses than anything which is definitely not cool.

I also think that the LFS has got super UV filtering going on or something to keep the numbers down....something is different between the LFS and my home rig.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

I also think that the LFS has got super UV filtering going on or something to keep the numbers down....something is different between the LFS and my home rig.

That wouldn't be unexpected...they're in business to sell fish. Some of them take it a little too far and it seems (I'm just speculating here) that some may be suppressing already infected fish which doesn't really cure them but reduces symptoms...

 

[amcclow]

Glad you're not giving up!! May i suggest an observational QT as a possible solution if a traditional QT is going to be an issue? Personally i don't think treatment with all those chemicals is healthy for the fish for one thing and while an observational QT certainly isn't foolproof, it can reduce the chances of an infected fish getting in your tank. If you do wanna do the full QT protocol though, go right ahead!

Yes, I think that is what I'm going to do first -- the observational QT. Give that a shot first. I would think if I quarantine for 30 days if they have ick or velvet, I will see it within that 30 day period.

 

[amcclow]

Low level as it is an industry standard to prep tank for fish, acclimate and quarantine if necessary. The store would be accountable if they recommended NO QT which is not the case.
No insult intended, but after the first fish loss, you would then have a notion to quarantine moving forward. I can encourage you to buy qT fish from Dr Reef and Reef Pro who sell healthy fish hence the shipping costs added

No insult taken. I was a dummy, (or just lazy, probably that) to not quarantine after the first event.