NickHolmes
Active Member
I was going to say the same thing
How to calculate running costs of a large tank
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SteveMM62Reef
Valuable Member
I plugged my Kilowatt Meter into my 12 Vdc LED’s rated at 288 wats, draw including what the Power Supply consumes, 90 watts on the 120 VAC Side.LED’s were being run to 100% I know some one with a large tank, they heat it off of a water loop from their Gas Water Heater.
I never finish anythi
Valuable Member
Let's be honest you wouldn't buy a Ferrari unless you knew you could maintain it . Personally if you feeling like this now just get a 300 gallon or something
SteveMM62Reef
Valuable Member
Also how much time do you have to maintain the tanks?? It will be multiple tanks by the way, as you’ll need a large Sump, a Refugium to grow Macro, so the Algae doesn’t take over. Quarantine Tanks, at least one for Fish and one for Invertebrates/Corals. Barrel(s) for RO/DI Barrel(s) for Salt. Mine need to be Cleaned/Maintained from time to time.
BradB
Well-Known Member
Depends entirely on what you want to keep. A 400 gallon with 1 clownfish and nothing else doesn't need lights, water changes, more than 1 pump, skimmer, more than a little food, etc.
Natural light, DIY LEDs, low light tanks are cheap. 1000 PAR Radion coverage on the bottom is expensive.
Minimal water changes are cheap, 20% twice a month is expensive.
Heating with gas or keeping the tank around 75F is cheap, electric heat at 84F is expensive. Lots of MH with a chiller is worse.
A skimmer is not a place to cheap out on, but this will tie directly to your fish load.
I am running a Red Dragon return, which actually saves me money with my cost of electricity. Cheaper power and you can run cheaper pumps like Iwaki or Blueline or Reeflo. Jabao or Tunze are essentially free to run if you are using electricity to heat the water.
SPS need Calcium. Reactors are cheaper in theory, but not always in practice. Cost of chemicals, media and CO2 is going to very widely depending on where you live and what risks you want to take. Keeping just leathers gets around this.
Natural light, DIY LEDs, low light tanks are cheap. 1000 PAR Radion coverage on the bottom is expensive.
Minimal water changes are cheap, 20% twice a month is expensive.
Heating with gas or keeping the tank around 75F is cheap, electric heat at 84F is expensive. Lots of MH with a chiller is worse.
A skimmer is not a place to cheap out on, but this will tie directly to your fish load.
I am running a Red Dragon return, which actually saves me money with my cost of electricity. Cheaper power and you can run cheaper pumps like Iwaki or Blueline or Reeflo. Jabao or Tunze are essentially free to run if you are using electricity to heat the water.
SPS need Calcium. Reactors are cheaper in theory, but not always in practice. Cost of chemicals, media and CO2 is going to very widely depending on where you live and what risks you want to take. Keeping just leathers gets around this.
Bucs20fan
Valuable Member
Alot of your cost is going to come into play with how much manual work are you willing to do and the status of your home. There are lots of shortcuts that cost money that manual work can do. I can tell you that you live in a fairly affordable from an energy standpoint, area of the US and that will come into your benefit. I have 3 aquariums running full time in my home at the moment. One is a 60g reef tank, one is a 180g fowlr and one is a 125 freshwater. The majority of my energy cost comes from the heaters and the lights. Energy efficiency of your home is crucial in this aspect. How well your HVAC system heats and cools your home and how well insulated your home is will be the biggest cost to heating/cooling the aquarium water. Your cost goes up and labor goes up for the reef tank, due to testing and more media replacement. If you split the difference for something like a 600 gallon, your energy costs alone regarding, pumps, powerheads, heaters and lights would probably run you around 150-200 dollars a month. Not counting salt or water or supplies. If your home is newer or well insulated, this cost could be cut up to potentially another 30% or more. My home finished construction in 2021 and has spray foam insulation. My energy costs are not nearly what they were in my older home built in the 80s. There is so much that goes into cost of keeping a large aquarium running besides just the tank and its equipment. Your home is a huge factor in this, along with where its placed in your home. Out side wall, verses not in a room without an exterior wall, what humidity do you want to keep your home at? With a tank 350 gallons plus you will need a dehumidifier in alot of cases, also another energy cost. There are so many variables that will influence the cost of running a tank that large that have nothing to do with the tank itself. I know you wanted numbers and im just trying to help you see the other things that will influence this endeavor.
BradB
Well-Known Member
As long as you are somewhat realistic on your budget, I'd go bigger on the tank size and conservative with everything else - especially if your budget will increase in the future. The exception to this is some huge tanks run into huge money issues dealing with building structure, whole house humidity issues, etc.
SlugSnorter
2500 Club Member
how many watts will the heater be running at?
you'll be looking at 24000 - 48000 watt hours a day (assuming 2.5 - 5 watts per gallon of water)
BradB
Well-Known Member
If I keep my home at 77F, I am uncomfortably hot and my tank still needs electric heat (with evaporation, water will always be below room temperature). Regardless of your HVAC efficiency, you are going to either pay to cool your house or heat your water unless you can tolerate 90F year round.
I have a 300 gallon display with probably another 200 gallons in sumps, frag tank and plumbing. I do run a dehumidifier year round in my basement, but suspect that is unrelated to the tank, although the tank makes it worse. Humidity in Spring and Summer in the house is too high, condenses on windows and doors - and this is from the tank. But I find my house far more comfortable in the summer and especially the winter than the bone dry air in other buildings.
areefer01
2500 Club Member
You are not far off actually. Utilities is the starting point. How much is electricity and do they produce any. What is the current bill and do they have a budget. Job one in my opinion.
Then there is display space and renovation. Is renovation needed? Does the space have everything necessary or does it need to be added. Do you want nice quality of life for auto water changes, evaporation, top off water, sump, fish room, electricity, primary and secondary circuits, etc? Renovation of a large aquarium room can run the cost of a kitchen remodel and $25,000.00 isn't uncommon. My point here is we can't just drop a 400 gallon box and call it a day. Planning and planning and more planning when we are talking large displays.
Materials is easy to figure out. Get a few bids out there and decide acrylic or glass. Consider stands and sumps at the same time. Sometimes display builder can do both. Also factor in your age today and your age tomorrow. You want something you can maintain somewhat easy so it gets done and you doesn't prevent you as you get older. Also factor in outside people if you travel - it has to be easy for day feeders or cleaners while you vacation.
Run and maintain - don't forget. Salt cost money. Generating water cost money. If you live in a state with environmental concerns or water restriction this goes up. You need to factor in take age and supplements. Many to choose from but simple is best. Hobby interest will guide you.
TL; DR -
- Material cost
- Run and maintain cost
- Utilities
- Start with local utilities for base power cost, peak cost
- Lastly - most important - set two budgets. Setup, display bucket. Run and maintain (monthly) bucket. Be realistic but also don't be shy.
o2manyfish
Valuable Member
I have a 750g display part of a 1500g system. My system is different in that the display tank is the only part of the system in doors. My heating costs in the winter are ridiculous.
But I have to say, if you are thinking you are limited by budget, your success is going to be limited as well. Once you get your budgeted reef up and running, you can't put it on pause when it needs something till you can afford it. Ordering food for 1000+ g of fish might be $500+ every other month. I have a service that delivers 50lb CO2 tanks every 6 weeks. I have a service that delivers tanks of DI Resin for the RO System every 6 months. When you need to buy salt, you are buying 6-10 cases at a time. A 200g box of salt is nothing for 1500g system.
I have a 4k gpd RO System - The filters and membranes are much cheaper to run than a standard residential RO system, but their initial cost and replacement cost is substantially higher.
Plus you need a spare of every piece of equipment on hand. When your return pump fails you don't have time for Amazon to deliver a new pump. When your heater fails, you don't have time for Amazon to send you more.
And even with replacements on hand - So a pump fails and you swap it out - You still need to purchase a new replacement.
There is also something to be said for the initial investment cost. To use as a bad example buying a Ferrari. Do you buy an older Ferrari and hope the maintenance costs are 'average' or do you spend the money for a new Ferrari and not worry about things like electrical systems, rubber bushings, old hoses, etc.
I've purchased some of the best equipment available on the market for my system. I run a pair of Abyzz Pumps, I run Panta Rhei Hydrowizard, a Bubble King, A Dastaco, a 4k gpd RO system, Highly customized automation, and MRC Roller Mat, and a pair of commercial 220v 4000w Titanium heaters. With my system my record is walking away from the system for 10 weeks and only having to visit it once to change a CO2 tank at 6 weeks. After that experience I moved from 20lb CO2 tanks to 50lb. And now in the event of an emergency the tank is capable of 2 months of untouched running.
You don't have to buy the most expensive named corals to have a huge financial investment in filling even a 400g tank with life. You can't risk that kind of investment in budgeting for the most cost effective pump, heater, light, etc. An Abyzz may seem like a grandiose expense. But is a $3k pump really that much considering the value of livestock in a well packed 125g tank.
If you're trying to guess what your costs are going to be that's one thing. But if you are trying to budget for those expenses, because that's what you can afford, then you are in a little over your head. Scrap the Ferrari and buy a used Mustang GT. (Not bashing the Mustang in any way).
Some months I may only spend $200 on food (Not including utilities). But then other months might be $3k.
Dave B
But I have to say, if you are thinking you are limited by budget, your success is going to be limited as well. Once you get your budgeted reef up and running, you can't put it on pause when it needs something till you can afford it. Ordering food for 1000+ g of fish might be $500+ every other month. I have a service that delivers 50lb CO2 tanks every 6 weeks. I have a service that delivers tanks of DI Resin for the RO System every 6 months. When you need to buy salt, you are buying 6-10 cases at a time. A 200g box of salt is nothing for 1500g system.
I have a 4k gpd RO System - The filters and membranes are much cheaper to run than a standard residential RO system, but their initial cost and replacement cost is substantially higher.
Plus you need a spare of every piece of equipment on hand. When your return pump fails you don't have time for Amazon to deliver a new pump. When your heater fails, you don't have time for Amazon to send you more.
And even with replacements on hand - So a pump fails and you swap it out - You still need to purchase a new replacement.
There is also something to be said for the initial investment cost. To use as a bad example buying a Ferrari. Do you buy an older Ferrari and hope the maintenance costs are 'average' or do you spend the money for a new Ferrari and not worry about things like electrical systems, rubber bushings, old hoses, etc.
I've purchased some of the best equipment available on the market for my system. I run a pair of Abyzz Pumps, I run Panta Rhei Hydrowizard, a Bubble King, A Dastaco, a 4k gpd RO system, Highly customized automation, and MRC Roller Mat, and a pair of commercial 220v 4000w Titanium heaters. With my system my record is walking away from the system for 10 weeks and only having to visit it once to change a CO2 tank at 6 weeks. After that experience I moved from 20lb CO2 tanks to 50lb. And now in the event of an emergency the tank is capable of 2 months of untouched running.
You don't have to buy the most expensive named corals to have a huge financial investment in filling even a 400g tank with life. You can't risk that kind of investment in budgeting for the most cost effective pump, heater, light, etc. An Abyzz may seem like a grandiose expense. But is a $3k pump really that much considering the value of livestock in a well packed 125g tank.
If you're trying to guess what your costs are going to be that's one thing. But if you are trying to budget for those expenses, because that's what you can afford, then you are in a little over your head. Scrap the Ferrari and buy a used Mustang GT. (Not bashing the Mustang in any way).
Some months I may only spend $200 on food (Not including utilities). But then other months might be $3k.
Dave B
I never finish anythi
Valuable Member
Please post a pic of the tank
100%
If you need to ask you probably shouldn't do it, was going to be my comment, but I see things are taken very seriously, so my new comment is how can anyone tell you what you need to know exactly with so little information about your situation, or where you plan to put it, does the building require engineering, where you live stuff like that, even then it would be a shot in the dark. You know you want a large tank but what does that say not much, not even what you want to do with it but have coral, if you work your way up to a large tank like most people do you will know better than anyone what it takes, sounds like you want someone to say it will only be 100$ more a month then a 120gallon tank idk about you but if you have been watching the inflation going on in the world in the past 36months how could anyone tell you any actual numbers or costs to something you want. Thats not actually investigating and planning thats just hoping someone has the answer you want an gives it to you the way you want it worded, closest thing you can do is find someone with a similarset up but theres no way i would base my situationoff theirs. You will get all kinds of answers here not just the ones you want! Size and cost of operation would be near the end of my list its all the other stuff, I see you have some car references so same deal you could know what car you want but how much is maintenance and tires and fuel....well how do you drive it how far do you drive it does your 16yr old drive it when your sleeping all information needed to know how much that Ferrari is going to cost you overall, then all of a sudden gas goes up , then there is no gas available, do any of your pre conceived numbers make a difference..... I liked the comment to guess what it would cost and add a 0 the the end I just want to add to that, and say add one more 0 and you should be within range +/- a few 0's lol
I liked the comment to guess what it would cost and add a 0 the the end I just want to add to that, and say add one more 0 and you should be within range +/- a few 0's lolBigDangler
Community Member
So being one that likes to research and plan things out.
Think you pretty much answered your own question there.... Research, Research, Research and just Research it some more. Everything has a price. You can research those. As for power/light bill, couldn't tell ya. Just assume the worst and hope that it isn't that bad.
o2manyfish
Valuable Member
You can watch the tank live at o2manyfish.com - The 750g has only been wet for a month, and after 2 major accidents in March we were starting from pretty much nothing. But if you goto youtube and search o2manyfish you can find videos of my previous 560g, 400g and the filter wall that supports the 1500g system.
However, the filter wall video needs to be updated as we had to replace the 340g glass sump with a 270g fiberglass tank and we added the new MRC Roller Mat filter.
Dave B
Well, In my experience, I got a ~500 gallon system in the basement of my house, 50 gallon frag tank, 300 gallon main tank, 2 20 gallon side tanks and ~80 gallon sump system. And honestly the power bill before and after set up is not noticeable at all. I think all the computers in my house takes more energy than the tank
For electricity I think the 3 biggest power consumer that comes to mind would be...
1. LED ~1200 W total, but I think I only turn the brightness on at 50% and I got sps and a bunch of different nems so you can pretty much keep anything under these lights.
2. Heater 100 W just a regular titanium heater never had issue with temperature (being in the basement really help keeps temperature consistent) I live in the NW so we been getting 110 F to -2 F but basement temp is almost the same every day.
3. Pump ~32 W
4. No idea about the voltage but a dehumidifier (which I just use the water to top up the tank)
I installed an amp meter in the fish room specifically so I can monitor the electrical consumption, and even with an extra fridge down there, I dont think it had ever gone above 7 amps and at night <1 amp, not sure monthly cost but I'm sure u can do the math to kW. In my office between my PC and the AC, especially during extreme weather, uses more electricity than my system for sure.
For the general maintenance. It really depends on a lot of stuff, I don't have a ton of fish but I have a ton of coral so nutrient control has never been an issue for me, I have never had to do a water change, I buy salt like once every 6 month the 50 dollar bucket, dosing on the other hand is a different story, I'm seriously considering a CO2 calcium reactor thing because I spend almost $50 dollar a month on just alk and cal reagents alone. Food is probably another $20.
Another thing I noticed is that a lot of brands charge crazy amounts for stuff that are pretty much the same, in my experience (though I'm sure some here might disagree) $150 dollar salts had the same result as a 30 dollar one. Personally I usually just buy the second cheapest item, usually good enough.
Lastly the biggest chunk of the cost is my inability to control myself I think each month I spend around $200- $500 (on a really bad month) on buying new coral and stuff lol. If I don't buy new stuff, the monthly cost drops to ~100 dollar to maybe 150 max a month I think.
For electricity I think the 3 biggest power consumer that comes to mind would be...
1. LED ~1200 W total, but I think I only turn the brightness on at 50% and I got sps and a bunch of different nems so you can pretty much keep anything under these lights.
2. Heater 100 W just a regular titanium heater never had issue with temperature (being in the basement really help keeps temperature consistent) I live in the NW so we been getting 110 F to -2 F but basement temp is almost the same every day.
3. Pump ~32 W
4. No idea about the voltage but a dehumidifier (which I just use the water to top up the tank)
I installed an amp meter in the fish room specifically so I can monitor the electrical consumption, and even with an extra fridge down there, I dont think it had ever gone above 7 amps and at night <1 amp, not sure monthly cost but I'm sure u can do the math to kW. In my office between my PC and the AC, especially during extreme weather, uses more electricity than my system for sure.
For the general maintenance. It really depends on a lot of stuff, I don't have a ton of fish but I have a ton of coral so nutrient control has never been an issue for me, I have never had to do a water change, I buy salt like once every 6 month the 50 dollar bucket, dosing on the other hand is a different story, I'm seriously considering a CO2 calcium reactor thing because I spend almost $50 dollar a month on just alk and cal reagents alone. Food is probably another $20.
Another thing I noticed is that a lot of brands charge crazy amounts for stuff that are pretty much the same, in my experience (though I'm sure some here might disagree) $150 dollar salts had the same result as a 30 dollar one. Personally I usually just buy the second cheapest item, usually good enough.
Lastly the biggest chunk of the cost is my inability to control myself
I think each month I spend around $200- $500 (on a really bad month) on buying new coral and stuff lol. If I don't buy new stuff, the monthly cost drops to ~100 dollar to maybe 150 max a month I think.
It true though
If you are going to look at maintenance of Ferrari and cost of gas your not ready for it.
Different cars same manufacturers have different expenses. With a big tank how you stock it, layout of your house, insulation, present hvac etc.
Something in life you don't add. When I fell in love I married the women. Even I knew she will take half. I didn't care.
This is a hobby, if you have cash to get the setup going, leave 1/4 of that in your account for emergency.
Then figure 20 percent annual
Or 2 percent a month to run it.
This is heavy estimate. I always go heavy in these situations.
I am sorry can't give you exact.
If my tank costs more I spend more simple. One thing gives me happiness.
This is why we are saying deep down you know what you can afford.
I can't afford a ferrari. I have money to buy it. But I know I can't afford it.
See what we mean
Forgot to add I have 300gallon, 50 gallon quarantine, 76 gallon frag tank and 100 gallon sump.
So 525 Gallons.
I never calculated exactly down to pennies. I don't want to. If I need extra cash I work harder. Or drink less. Hahah
So 525 Gallons.
I never calculated exactly down to pennies. I don't want to. If I need extra cash I work harder. Or drink less. Hahah
Some of the costs will also come down to where you are located and costs of getting things to you. Cost of water, electricity, shipping, etc.
I get wanting to have an idea. I have my BA in accounting. I was a cost accountant for years. The best thing you can do is figure out what you want, what you need to run it, check local costs, and set up a spreadsheet for options.
I do not think we have any type of calculation like building a house does. Say in Hawaii the cost is $200/sq ft or similar. Due to all the variances of this hobby, there is no good estimate by gallon, etc. I will say the larger the volume of water, the increased cost. That is the main "given" point.
Good luck! I hope you gather the info you need.
I get wanting to have an idea. I have my BA in accounting. I was a cost accountant for years. The best thing you can do is figure out what you want, what you need to run it, check local costs, and set up a spreadsheet for options.
I do not think we have any type of calculation like building a house does. Say in Hawaii the cost is $200/sq ft or similar. Due to all the variances of this hobby, there is no good estimate by gallon, etc. I will say the larger the volume of water, the increased cost. That is the main "given" point.
Good luck! I hope you gather the info you need.
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