How to make a tank last over forty years with few problems

Paul B

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In My Opinion, how I feel a reef tank could be run to last over forty years with "Almost" no problems.



First of all this will not be for Noobs as I realize most things printed for this hobby are. There are many other people besides Noobs and if many Noobs tried these methods, they would fail. Not because they are stupid or have knock knees, but because this hobby requires a level of experience that can not be taught by reading alone, but comes about by seeing with your own eyes and by making mistakes which unfortunately we all had to make at one point or another. After a number of years we can look at a fish and read it's mind, know how it feels, determine if it is lonely or has gas. I can look at my tank from across the street and determine if one fish has one scale out of place, but that takes time and nothing but time will teach that skill.

This will also not be for a very mature, successful aquarist who has a well run functioning, old system because those people, Me being one of them, are hard headed, stubborn and in many cases bald and we don't like people telling us how to run our system or show us how to dance. (watch, those will be the people argueing with me tomorrow, but that is fine, I would probably do the same thing and these people are friends of mine so it is just a friendly conversation until they throw eggs at my house. )

This is for the few people that fall in between those extremes. Those people I like to call in the "Fusion Zone" where they are not sure what to do. If they should put in a DSB, BB, keep moray eels, bake a cake, eat broccoil or forget about it and go bungee jumping.

I started with "In My Opinion" because virtually everyone will disagree with almost all of my ideas. I even disagree with some of them. (This is why I wrote a book)

If I were to start a new tank tomorrow I would do it exactly as I did when I started my tank 45 years ago. (with a few exceptions) In those days I used Natural Sea water and I realize most people can't do that and that is a shame. So if you must, use ASW. ASW has a few problems first of which it is actually "fake" sea water. Yes, it has "most" of the chemicals that we can measure in generally the same proportions but real sea water has everything in it that is on earth. Things from undersea volcanic vents, meteorites (some of which I assume contain substances we don't test for because we are not sure exactly what they are but Chewbacca spit may be one of them) everything that runs off land masses during storms, some good and not so good. Chemicals exuded by corals, algae, bacteria, viruses and Columbus wash water. It is questionable if these substances are good or not, but our fish evolved in them so I consider them natural and I want my tank to be as natural as possable. This is very important to me and to my fish. (But most of my tank water is also ASW)

You can of course run an un natural tank and have success as most tanks are run like that. But most tanks have problems.

Make believe I put "In My Opinion" before every sentence so when people argue with me, I can point to that.

I would start a tank with gravel, not sand (remember IMO) Sand can work very well and is needed with certain fish but after 45 years, gravel has seemed to work perfectly for me. Gravel has one huge benefit. Any detritus (which I do not feel is bad) hides in it and doesn't get blown around. "In My Tank" I would help the gravel by installing a reverse undergravel filter and running it very slow. (I will give you time to stop laughing now)

Thats enough time. If your tank has run longer than mine without a reverse undergravel filter, raise your hand. Thats what I thought.



People ask me if I were to start a tank tomorrow, if I would use a "better, more modern system". First you would have to show me that system which lasts longer. (Thats what I thought)

The reverse UG filter needs some maintenance just like The Space Shuttle, the Enterprize air craft carrier, your teeth, your car, your toenails and everything that works needs maintenance. The good thing about a Reverse UG filter is that it only needs a stirring once or twice a year and a filtering of whatever comes out of it. That is not because detritus is bad, but that it can clog in between the gravel grains.

A huge advantage of this systemis that oxygen will flow through the entire substrait nourishing worms, amphipods, copepods, brittle stars, Godzilla larvae and everything else that is at the bottom of the food chain. Remember, this is for a natural, immune tank.

The next thing I would do is (and remember to add " IMO" before every sentenance) buy a fish (not the most expensive or delicate fish there is) and if I started this tank with fake water, I would put it in a spare tank, not decorated with PVC but have real rocks in there, I would watch this fish for maybe a week and if it is not covered in parasites, I would put it in the Main tank. I did not say to quarantine for a reason and this is "my" theories and I did say IMO.

Yes, this can be "dangerous", but remember this tank does not have any coral in it yet. The fish you bought was hopefully collected a few weeks ago in the sea and all fish in the sea have some sort of immunity. That immunity will be severly tested in this new tank and may develop some sort of parasites. This is OK. (and actually preferable) Yes i did say that but this is how "I" would start a natural, immune tank.

If you are squeemish, you could put the fish in copper for about 10 days as that will kill parasites and not affect the fishes natural immunity. (Or you could stop reading and take a dance class, maybe Rhumba)

If I were a Noob I would not do this or know anything about it because I did say Noobs should not be reading this. Perhaps they would be watching a Soap Opera if they still have such things.

25 year old fireclowns spawning


As soon as I buy this fish I would try to feed it with live foods such as blackworms or earthworms. Just a couple of worms a day is fine because we are not that interested in the protein, but in the live bacteria in the worms. If you can't, or won't get worms, at least try to get clams. Live clams would be the best thing but I also realize many people live in Utah, the Sahara or Tunisia and can't get live anything except maybe Buffalo which is not the best food.

You can use frozen clams from a supermarket but my fear is that there may not be much living bacteria in a commercially frozen clam. If that is all you can get, then get that.

I did "not" say to feed squid, octopus, fish fillets, shrimp, chicken, taco's or anything else because we want the guts of the prey animal, not just the tentacles. This is very important.

As I said we are mainly interested in the live bacteria for this "natural" tank which By the way will also be an immune tank. I would also feed something like LRS food or some other commercially available food preferably with pro biotics added.

If you can't get foods with live bacteria, forget what you read so far and set up a good quarantine system as you will not be able to run a natural or immune tank. Nothing wrong with that, it is what it is. Just a different type of a system and a system that many successful people have. Just remember a quarantined fish must always be with quarantined fish as they will have no immunity from parasites.

Now when we added that first fish to our tank, we also added parasites AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOO. Don't panic. A natural, immune tank needs parasites. Don't think of them as bad, but as "not very cute" poodle puppies. If this all works out, the parasites will live right along side your fish, maybe sampling a little slime occasionally while keeping your fish immune from the parasites.

Remember, fish have been living with parasites since they were invented, probably by Al Gore. Healthy fish are well equipped to handle parasites and parasites are needed if we are to keep our fish immune from them.

If, that fish we put into our tank becomes "covered" in parasites, we need to catch it and place it in copper at the proper dosage. This should not be viewed as a bad thing, I said there were parasites in there didn't I!. Do Not put copper or anything else in your main tank to kill parasites. If you see a couple of parasites, don't worry about it, maybe go out for a nice dinner of linguini and clams, try the merlot.

Now when you eliminate those parasites on that fish and continue to feed it the "proper" foods (which are not flakes, pellets or any dry foods of any kind) it will have an immunity from those parasites in that tank. But we need to feed the fish the foods I mentioned. (always) There are no short cuts and please don't mention "Quality" dry foods. All dry foods are Quality, but they are baked, sterilized and loaded with preservatives, if they were not, they would rot and virtually any great food will go bad very quickly without freezing unless it is live like a worm (the best food)

OK now we have the "hopefully" immune fish in there and we are feeding it the proper foods. Now we can buy another one and do the same thing.



But we must "always" feed the correct foods with living bacteria. It is OK if we go on vacation for a week to have someone come over and feed them oatmeal or TV dinners but only for a week.

A diatom filter is a great invention for a natural reef tank for a few reasons. If you would like to limit the number of parasites in your new tank, a diatom filter will severly restrict their numbers, but it won't cure anything by itself. I use a diatom filter to stir up my UG filter a couple of times a year, but any canister filter will do that.

If that new fish (or any fish) became covered in parasites, a diatom filter in conjunction with copper will cure that fish much faster and is similar to the tank transfer method which accomplishes almost the same thing. I sometimes purposely buy fish covered in parasites because i get them for free, a diatom filter and copper, in many cases clears these fish from parasites and they become great fish. Many of my fish I aquired like that and all my fish only die of old age.

Algae, cyano, flatworms, black ich, and a whole slew of other things seem to be a problem in this hobby and IMO there is no need to "Battle" these things. This is a hobby so there is no need to battle anything, if you want to battle, tell your wife she looks fat in those shorts.

Now the disclaimer:

This is as I keep saying my opinions from my experiences which span over 60 years. I did not come up with this last Tuesday and none of it came from a book or from a rumor or fish forum. It is all from my experience and I have kept many specimins of almost every fish available and have spawned many of them. I have also spent time under water with most of the fish we normally keep, but not Godzilla Larvae as they scare me. :eek:

 
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Paul B

Paul B

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Yes, as long as there are always parasites and bacteria in the tank and the fish are given the foods I mentioned. Any creature will lose it's immunity after a period of time if it is not exposed to pathogens. Immunity uses an enormous amount of energy and the fish will stop making antibodies if there is no need to. Of course if you lose power, lose heat, have a bulling manta ray or some other huge stressful event, that tank, and any tank will crash. But an immune, natural tank will be healthier just by the fact you are feeding healthier foods. My tank has never crashed and there have been many times my power has gone out for 5 days. The gravel and reverse undegravel filter has something to do with the tank not crashing during a blackout as it is a much more forgiving system than sand, only because water flows through it.
 

rayn

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Paul, have you ever done a comprehensive walk through of your tank? I'm talking everything, perhaps in a video, of what you have and what you do.

Some people, myself included, can see and start to understand your principles but lack the ability to see how everything works together.

It would take some time, but perhaps showing your tank after it is cleaned, then before your clean the gravel and the benefits you get from it. Show the ugf and how it benefits you and your tank. The diatom filter and how it benefits your tank.

You seem to like to build rather then buy, which is awesome, but not everyone has your skills. Even some older tank keepers just don't have those abilities. But what you build can, at most times, be bought.

Your ways aren't the norm, but your tank proves that outside the norm can work and does.


And I'm a little disappointed there aren't any supermodels in the tank anymore.
 

Nicolas_Brown

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Paul,
I have been in the hobby appx a week compared to your time in the hobby lol but I agree with your methods. It's easier to read the tank than chase a number IMO. Also a sterile tank will always fail at some point in time! Going as natural as possible is always a good idea! Iv never really "quarenteened a fish" observe and in it goes
 
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Paul B

Paul B

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Rayn, there are many video's of my tank on forums and all over YouTube. You can also search or Google my name Paul Baldassano to find them on the internet. I don't even know how any of it got there because I don't know how to do that.
As you know I started the tan way before cell phones and pictures then had to be developed so I have no pictures of my UG filter that I know of. But a UG filter is just a plastic plate with holes in it under the gravel.
I do also build everything but I like to, not that I need to. I built the lights, but I could have bought them, I did not build the UG filter but I modified it to be run in reverse. That only means that the water is pumped down the tubes that go to under the gravel. It's not very scientific and is rather simple.
This is one time I removed everything from the tank to re-aquascape and to see what was growing under the UG filter plates. The tank had been running about 35 years prior to this. I am using diatom filters here to clean it as under those plates was a little scurvy, but in a healthy sort of way. There was a lot of life down there. The UG filter tubes can be seen on the right side of the tank. Two of them are bent near the gravel to go to the places under the gravel evenly spaced


Here is an old video, which gives me a headache. The tank now has much more montipora and many gorgonians as they are my favorite and I want my tank filled with them, as it almost is.

 
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Paul B

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I myself have not been tested for it but yesterday the VA told me I have PTSD. The councilor also told me that may be the reason I have so many hobbies and throw myself into them so intently. Maybe that's a good thing. :rolleyes:

There is a 6 year old thread on here about my tank and I posted this on Old Tank Syndrome (but nothing about Old Aquarist Syndrome.)
https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/old-tank-syndrome.184/
 
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This thread may help (or confuse you) about immunity. But those are the principles I am trying to convey here. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/a-discussion-on-immunity.209701/

Immunity is simple, kind of. It is why we get flu shots. So we Hopefully don't get the flu. If we never had the flu or chicken pox, measles, or a variety of other things we are much more likely to get it now. Especially if you, like me rode the New York subway system for forty years.
But riding that subway every day, and touching those disgusting hand rails actually helped me stay immune from those diseases that are on there from, I am sure, all over the world and beyond. :eek:
 

Rick.45cal

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I myself have not been tested for it but yesterday the VA told me I have PTSD. The councilor also told me that may be the reason I have so many hobbies and throw myself into them so intently. Maybe that's a good thing. :rolleyes:

There is a 6 year old thread on here about my tank and I posted this on Old Tank Syndrome (but nothing about Old Aquarist Syndrome.)
https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/old-tank-syndrome.184/

I think all of our chemistry is a little off to be this deep into something like this. (I don't think it's neccisarrily a bad thing). I certainly have never fit in well with people, fish/corals/animals make more sense too me. (Clyde, my dog would probably beg to differ he's pretty sure I'll never learn).


As far as immunity, I have always been a strong believer in it. I also agree that it is an essential part of the health of the fish, the catch 22 of that is if you introduce something that's extremely agressive that none of your fish have an immunity too. I also agree that the importance of diet is probably the fundamentally most important and strangely overlooked aspect of this hobby. Somehow flake food=All that's needed. I am always amazed when I read about people's marine fish eating pellets and flake food, I never could get any of mine to eat it. But maybe that's because they were all used to eating frozen foods and live foods. (Spoiled).

I also think the probiotic aspect of the article is really key, and I really do feel that quality foods like LRS really do make a significant difference, both in the health of the fish but also in the health of the the tanks as well.

I know in years past we all tried to limit our nutrient input by reduced feedings, somehow, it turned into people systematically starving their fish because they are afraid of "getting their tank dirty". This is something that needs to be fundamentally addressed (just like starving your corals with no NO3 and PO4) in our hobby.

As for the "old tank syndrome" I was teasing, because I know you have a similar sense of humor as mine and likely would laugh and not hunt me down like the dog I may or may not be. As for the PTSD, thank you for your service, it's good that you have several outlets/ways to cope that you have found. There are many unfortunately who have not. Hopefully they will! Maybe there should be "reef therapy"!
 
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Paul B

Paul B

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Rick, although I think LRS food is probably the best commercially available food there it I would still supplement it with something with live bacteria. I know Larry will come on here to say otherwise and I did say his food is the best but this thread is about my practices and my tank has been running much longer than LRS or any other foods. That food may be the best thing since frozen peas but I am not an expert on that so I can only go with my experience tells me, and that experience tells me the absolute best foods are the live ones with the live bacteria. In the sea fish "only" eat live food with it's associated live bacteria "and" parasites. With every meal fish get live parasites as all fish harbor some parasites. They absolutely need these parasites to stay immune as they have eaten parasites with almost every meal since they were born, have they not!. Why eliminate something the fish have been eating since they were born.
My fish never get sick, like never. I wonder why.
My PTSD does not bother me and I never knew I had it. I got back from Viet Nam almost fifty years ago and if it did not affect me by now, I am good to go. :rolleyes:
I only found out about it because I was asked to speak Veterans Day to a group of Kiwanis members about my experiences in Nam. A (big) guy next to me was an Army Ranger near where I was about the same time and he knew about this battle I was in which was a particularly fierce fight where we lost about 40% of us out of about 150 guys. He told me he is an advocate for Veterans and I should get checked for PTSD, so I did.

Nicolas, I run a DIY skimmer with ozone. I am not sure if Ozone does anything but I have never ran the tank without it. I built my first ozonator in the 70s out of a very powerful Neon transformer, but it tended to dim the lights in my neighborhood so I went out and bought one.
I use my diatom filter once or twice a year and I have some feeders that I designed to feed mandarins and pipefish. I use no other equipment and have no dosers, controllers, oxidators, GAC, ABC or any other abreviations and no bio pellets. I also have no test kits or medications except this bottle of copper/formalin from the 70s that was made in Brooklyn. It may be expired. I still use it if I get one of those fish for free from a LFS that is covered in parasites.
 
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Paul B

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Also virtually all of my paired fish are spawning and always have. Spawning fish are a measure of health as only very healthy fish will spawn. Like the immune system it takes an enormous amount of calories and energy for a fish to produce eggs. The eggs can be almost half the weight of the fish. If a fish can not produce eggs, it also can not manufacture antibodies to exude in their slime because a fishes slime, which is a big part of it's immune system also needs an enormous amount of energy. If your fish are not spawning or at least producing eggs, cleaning a nest or making spawning movements, it is not very healthy and probably not immune from anything. Of course I mean fish that will spawn in a home tank, not a copperband or tang.
The diet I suggested will get your fish into spawning mode in about 6 or 7 weeks as that is my experience.
 
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laga77

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I know in years past we all tried to limit our nutrient input by reduced feedings, somehow, it turned into people systematically starving their fish because they are afraid of "getting their tank dirty". This is something that needs to be fundamentally addressed (just like starving your corals with no NO3 and PO4) in our hobby.
As I have stated in the past, after reading many posts on many forums and talking to owners and fellow aquarists in the LFS, 80% of all marine fish are underfed and 90% are malnourished because of dry food diets. Just think how many times you have seen a post where people think it is a "treat" to occasionally feed a fish some kind of meaty food. Or, feeding a Tang nothing but nori because they are a "herbivore".
 
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Paul B

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You may find some of my log book interesting. Look at the dates and the medications I used. Remember in 1972 there were no medications for salt water fish and we used pennies for copper. I only posted when something bad happened even though it looks like my fish were always sick. Most of the time, they probably were as no one, including me knew what we were doing. All these fish were also in a 30 gallon tank. :eek:


I find it interesting here that I was keeping French Angels, Moorish Idol, tangs and copperbands in the 70s.


Here it seems I cured a French Angel of HLLE using vitamin A or fish oil. I have been giving it to my fish ever since.


Here I wrote that I removed a tumor from the belly of a tetradon puffer five years before he died. That tumor was inside his belly and I had to cut him open to do that, Then I force fed him for a while and he was cured.

 

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