How well do Emperor Angels and Harlequin Tusks handle hyposalinity?

[LPS Bum]

Hi everyone,

Does anyone have any experience with putting Emperor Angels (specifically a juvenile) and Harlequin Tusks through hyposalinity?

I have both in my QT tank, and I know that the Emperor had flukes (almost certainly Neobenedenia flukes) because 3 or 4 of them came off during his first freshwater dip. I have subsequently dipped him a couple more times over the last few weeks and haven't seen anything come off of him, but one of his fins is ragged, his color is off, and he's not eating nearly as well as he did a few weeks ago. Haven't seen any flukes on the Tusk yet, but if the Angel came in with them, I'm fairly sure they laid eggs and are still in the QT tank.

Jay Hemdal recommends hyposalinity at 1.009 for 30 days as a treatment protocol, rather than using Prazi. Wondering if hypo would present an issue for these fish, since I know wrasses can sometimes struggle in lower salinity, and Angels can be finicky. If you have any experience with these guys in hypo, I'd love to hear it. Thanks!

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi everyone,

Does anyone have any experience with putting Emperor Angels (specifically a juvenile) and Harlequin Tusks through hyposalinity?

I have both in my QT tank, and I know that the Emperor had flukes (almost certainly Neobenedenia flukes) because 3 or 4 of them came off during his first freshwater dip. I have subsequently dipped him a couple more times over the last few weeks and haven't seen anything come off of him, but one of his fins is ragged, his color is off, and he's not eating nearly as well as he did a few weeks ago. Haven't seen any flukes on the Tusk yet, but if the Angel came in with them, I'm fairly sure they laid eggs and are still in the QT tank.

Jay Hemdal recommends hyposalinity at 1.009 for 30 days as a treatment protocol, rather than using Prazi. Wondering if hypo would present an issue for these fish, since I know wrasses can sometimes struggle in lower salinity, and Angels can be finicky. If you have any experience with these guys in hypo, I'd love to hear it. Thanks!

Angels, fairly well and tusk- ive seen some do well and others not so well. Hypo can stress certain fish and I view at times an alternative rather than solution. Coppersafe at 2.25 very tolerable by both of these fish. For flukes, hypo is a measure for temporary relief and seldom a cure- then you want to use PraziPro

 

[LPS Bum]

Angels, fairly well and tusk- ive seen some do well and others not so well. Hypo can stress certain fish and I view at times an alternative rather than solution. Coppersafe at 2.25 very tolerable by both of these fish. For flukes, hypo is a measure for temporary relief and seldom a cure- then you want to use PraziPro

Thanks Vetteguy.

Is copper a treatment for flukes? I was under the impression that copper wasn’t an effective treatment, but if I’m wrong about that please let me know. I have Copper Power.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thanks Vetteguy.

Is copper a treatment for flukes? I was under the impression that copper wasn’t an effective treatment, but if I’m wrong about that please let me know. I have Copper Power.

Copper in lieu of hypo for ich and protozoans, For Flukes, PraziPro. To be safe , dose at 80% of recommended and apply initial dosage known as an interval for 8 days, do a water change and do one more 8 day dose interval
Use airstone with prazi as it does reduce both oxygen and appetite. If running a skimmer, leave cup off first 24 hrs as skimmer will go nuts from the glycol solution in Prazi

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi everyone,

Does anyone have any experience with putting Emperor Angels (specifically a juvenile) and Harlequin Tusks through hyposalinity?

I have both in my QT tank, and I know that the Emperor had flukes (almost certainly Neobenedenia flukes) because 3 or 4 of them came off during his first freshwater dip. I have subsequently dipped him a couple more times over the last few weeks and haven't seen anything come off of him, but one of his fins is ragged, his color is off, and he's not eating nearly as well as he did a few weeks ago. Haven't seen any flukes on the Tusk yet, but if the Angel came in with them, I'm fairly sure they laid eggs and are still in the QT tank.

Jay Hemdal recommends hyposalinity at 1.009 for 30 days as a treatment protocol, rather than using Prazi. Wondering if hypo would present an issue for these fish, since I know wrasses can sometimes struggle in lower salinity, and Angels can be finicky. If you have any experience with these guys in hypo, I'd love to hear it. Thanks!

Harlequin tusks can be hit or miss with hypo. Is this a longer term captive? If so, it should do o.k. I think a lot of what gets reported about tuskfish dying from this or that treatment, is due to the high mortality rate seen in this species when newly imported from the Philippines or Indonesia. That is most likely from cyanide capture poisoning, but the tuskfish die from that with no real symptoms, right at a time they are often undergoing quarantine treatment - so the treatment gets blamed.

 

[LPS Bum]

Harlequin tusks can be hit or miss with hypo. Is this a longer term captive? If so, it should do o.k. I think a lot of what gets reported about tuskfish dying from this or that treatment, is due to the high mortality rate seen in this species when newly imported from the Philippines or Indonesia. That is most likely from cyanide capture poisoning, but the tuskfish die from that with no real symptoms, right at a time they are often undergoing quarantine treatment - so the treatment gets blamed.

Thanks Jay.

To answer your question, I’ve only had the Tusk for a few days. But it was a Divers Den fish, so I would think they had it for at least a couple of weeks. Probably more like a month or longer because it had been on the site for quite some time before I grabbed it.

Do Tusks and Emperors handle formalin baths well? I can give him a Safety Stop bath either during his QT period or after he exits QT (just prior to putting him in my display). Are freshwater dips applicable for Tusks once they’re settled into QT?

 

[MnFish1]

Thanks Jay.

To answer your question, I’ve only had the Tusk for a few days. But it was a Divers Den fish, so I would think they had it for at least a couple of weeks. Probably more like a month or longer because it had been on the site for quite some time before I grabbed it.

Do Tusks and Emperors handle formalin baths well? I can give him a Safety Stop bath either during his QT period or after he exits QT (just prior to putting him in my display). Are freshwater dips applicable for Tusks once they’re settled into QT?

2 general recommendations - do not mix multiple medications/baths/etc - If you have a protocol (such as hypo salinity) - follow that - rather than adding formalin or other baths, etc. Ditto for Copper/Prazipro. Also - it's always a good practice not to add different batches of fish to a QT setup. This tends to avoid this type of problem.

Specific to your issue - I did put a tusk through hypo salinity with no problems. I would, though, use copper followed by prazipro (or in your case you could do prazipro followed by copper) - since you know you have flukes and there is no evidence for other parasites.

 

[LPS Bum]

2 general recommendations - do not mix multiple medications/baths/etc - If you have a protocol (such as hypo salinity) - follow that - rather than adding formalin or other baths, etc. Ditto for Copper/Prazipro. Also - it's always a good practice not to add different batches of fish to a QT setup. This tends to avoid this type of problem.

Specific to your issue - I did put a tusk through hypo salinity with no problems. I would, though, use copper followed by prazipro (or in your case you could do prazipro followed by copper) - since you know you have flukes and there is no evidence for other parasites.

Thanks for the info on your experience with the Tusk in hypo. Makes sense.

I’m not currently medicating the QT tank. Just freshwater baths once a week for the Juv Emperor Angel. I’ve been hesitant to use Copper Power because I know Angels can be sensitive, and I’ve seen no evidence of Crypt or Velvet. I’m hesitant to use Prazi because I know that wrasses can be sensitive.

Normally I don’t add a fish while another is in QT, but this Tusk was too good f a deal to pass up.

 

[MnFish1]

Thanks for the info on your experience with the Tusk in hypo. Makes sense.

I’m not currently medicating the QT tank. Just freshwater baths once a week for the Juv Emperor Angel. I’ve been hesitant to use Copper Power because I know Angels can be sensitive, and I’ve seen no evidence of Crypt or Velvet. I’m hesitant to use Prazi because I know that wrasses can be sensitive.

Normally I don’t add a fish while another is in QT, but this Tusk was too good f a deal to pass up.

Although freshwater baths are 'ok' to do - I personally would not recommend them weekly as they are not a 'treatment' but merely something thats buying time. Now, presumably, you've exposed your tusk to flukes, when it didn't need to happen that way. (i.e. one suggestion is to ask your lfs to keep your fish until your treatment of the others is done - usually a down payment will allow them to hold the fish).

 

[LPS Bum]

Although freshwater baths are 'ok' to do - I personally would not recommend them weekly as they are not a 'treatment' but merely something thats buying time. Now, presumably, you've exposed your tusk to flukes, when it didn't need to happen that way. (i.e. one suggestion is to ask your lfs to keep your fish until your treatment of the others is done - usually a down payment will allow them to hold the fish).

That would make sense if I had purchased the fish at a LFS, but it was through an online vendor. I agree with you about not adding a second fish when one is already in there, but this was a great deal that I didn’t want to pass up. Still, having them in QT is a lot better than not having them in QT.

This far I’ve seen no flukes on the Tusk or the Emperor (not since his first freshwater bath 3 weeks ago) so I’ll likely monitor both in QT for a while and put each through a safety stop bath once they exit the QT system (before introduction to my FOWLR).

If I see evidence of flukes I can always treat the QT with Prazi. But I’ve heard it can be hard on wrasses, so I’ll only do that if I need to.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks Jay.

To answer your question, I’ve only had the Tusk for a few days. But it was a Divers Den fish, so I would think they had it for at least a couple of weeks. Probably more like a month or longer because it had been on the site for quite some time before I grabbed it.

Do Tusks and Emperors handle formalin baths well? I can give him a Safety Stop bath either during his QT period or after he exits QT (just prior to putting him in my display). Are freshwater dips applicable for Tusks once they’re settled into QT?

I'm not a fan of formalin dips except as a diagnostic tool. They can be harsh on the fish and will reduce, but not eliminate metazoan parasites. Freshwater dips have essentially the same issue.

One problem is that Neobendenia has sticky tendrils on its eggs. FW and formalin dips don't kill the eggs. Thus, the eggs can easily be carried from one tank to another, stuck to the body of the fish given the dip. It has been shown that a single egg can restart an infection.

There are some web sites out there that are giving the wrong dose for formalin, and that can be dangerous for the fish. I don't know what dose Safety Stop uses. The standard dose of tropical marine fish is 45 minutes to one hour with good aeration at 167 ppm.