How would Tin and Aluminum be entering my tank?

Randy Holmes-Farley · Apr 30, 2018

chicago said:
Well this is interesting.. my Tin .levels are as follows..

10.22 µg/l

ATI says that is high... as reference value is
0.43 µg/l
So I am
+9.79 µg/l to high..

This is in my make fresh mixed replacement water for doing a water change.. Will look to see if it is the heater.
ESV salt is what i use..

Here is the link for the ATI results for make up water of ESV.. The salinity is a little low.. so that might impact other results..

http://lab.atiaquaristik.com/share/134fe2594f84b3e164ca

Do you have a float switch anywhere up to this point in making water?

chicago · Apr 30, 2018

I do .. Interesting.. I also have an older glass heater in this large vat..

Also why the high reading for phosphorus on fresh ro/di made up Salt water

chicago · Apr 30, 2018

randy .. any thoughts on this

Symbol:
Manganese Mn
Value:
22.35
Result:

Calculated reference value:
0.43

Randy Holmes-Farley · Apr 30, 2018

If there are any metal parts on the float switch, it might be releasing those metals. Someone had a rusting wing nut on their RO/DI float switch that may have elevated their metals.

chicago · Apr 30, 2018

thanks

Roger Brooks · Oct 15, 2019

slojmn said:
In the past I have asked how to get rid of tin and aluminum in my tank. Now I am asking, Where in the world is it coming from? My tin levels have continued to climb despite my attempts to lower it. Aluminum has been up 120 then back at 0 and back up to 122. In November,2014 Triton results showed tin at 42, in Late December, 2014 after multiple large water changes, up to 59. Finally most recent Triton test, tin at 89. Since December's higher than November results I swapped out sand bed, swapped out all pumps, took out all powerheads and replaced, dipped 60% of my rock in Muriatic Acid and added the Little Fishies "MetalSorb" to the tank. I know Metalsorb does nothing for tin but I thought it couldn't hurt. I thought rusty bits of my steel stand that I found in the sump were to blame. I covered the sump 5 months ago. My make-up water has always tested at 0 for tin and aluminum.

I did some research on various boards and saw some references to tin levels rising as a result of bad hardware somewhere in the tank, leaching out the metals, so I swapped out all pumps and powerheads. I am unable to support any SPS in this tank over the past 18 months. Alk, Ca, and Mag are stable and have been extremely stable since last summer. Fish, most LPS, shrooms and some zoas are fine. There is not huge growth but overall colors and medium levels of growth on most of these inhabitants. Fish are fine. The idea of heavy metal poisoning affecting the SPS seems in line. I add food, Rod's Food, various frozen foods, pellets and some high quality flake in a smorgasbord for the fish and LPS. I dose BRS alk and Cal supplement through a doser. Make up water is super clean NO TIN, NO ALUMINUM. Where in the heck is it coming from. The SPS corals are not lying, they perish within a month of being added. I am periodically trying a few frags here and there to see with my eyes if things are better. The Triton test results and the SPS are telling me nothing is changing no matter what I have done. I am totally at a loss. I was thinking of doing a 60-75% water change and then 60-75% water change 3 days later to really dilute the metals, but then what?? Without finding the cause they will just rise again. I am not a huge "Chase the numbers kind of reefer" but my corals have been telling me for 18 months that something is seriously wrong in the tank. If only my make-up water was the culprit!!!!

I am open to any thoughts, speculation, suggestions. Desperation is setting in. I have been very methodical about my approach but I am running out of options and things to consider or change.

Like you, I am having the same issue. I've literally replaced EVERYTHING - including the tank - EXCEPT my chiller. I hate to spend $800 to purchase a new chiller "just in case" it's the culprit. If not, I'd be out nearly a thousand dollars. Do you have a chiller? In my ICP testing, I have tin at 149 and aluminum also off the charts. All other chems are right in line. I have no idea how this happens and no one, anywhere, seems to have any answers. I don't have a heater (I live in Arizona) and replaced all the pumps, and everything except the livestock with no reduction in tin and aluminum. I even moved the sump outside of the stand so it can't be any stand hardware, which was also replaced.

It's shocking that there are no answers. Did you find any?

Randy Holmes-Farley · Oct 15, 2019

Roger Brooks said:
It's shocking that there are no answers. Did you find any?

The problem is not that there are no answers, but that there are many possible sources. Tin can be in pvc, in the aquarium glass, in metal parts, etc.

Backing up, are you having problems that you think are related to aluminum or tin?

Roger Brooks · Oct 16, 2019

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
The problem is not that there are no answers, but that there are many possible sources. Tin can be in pvc, in the aquarium glass, in metal parts, etc.

Backing up, are you having problems that you think are related to aluminum or tin?

The back story:
Two years ago I purchased a RedSea 525 (120 gallon) aquarium - all brand new, but couldn't keep corals alive or thriving. I finally ICP tested the water and found tin at 160 and aluminum at 110. For a year I replaced the pumps, reactors, lights, there were no metal clamps, I have no heater, all to no avail. After fighting it for more than a year, I finally dumped the entire set-up (lost $20,000) and bought a smaller RedSea 170 (45 gallons).

Current story:
Same issues, all new equipment. Three months ago I even got rid of the sump and put a larger one in the room, outside the cabinet. New pump, new lights, new reactors, new UV pump and housing, new wave makers (MP10s), new refugium light, new rock, new sand, no metal clamps and the only PVC used are fittings and gate-valves. The ONLY piece of equipment I've had the whole time is the chiller and some MarinePure spheres.

I don't use Zeobit, or the other things Triton ICP testing says could cause it.

The big question:
Is it possible that the chiller is leaching tin and aluminum into this tank?
Or could the MarinePure blocks be contaminated somehow?
I really don't want to spend $750 for a new chiller just to test to see if it's the problem but I'm at a loss as to what else could be causing this.

I've gone through the list of everything provided by everyone on this and every forum out there, yet I still have high tin and aluminum levels - even when changing 20% of the water every week. After two full years, you'd think I could figure it out. With no answers I may have to lose this hobby, which I've put a small fortune into. At wits end!

Not even sure where to turn at this point.

chefjpaul · Oct 16, 2019

Roger Brooks said:
The back story:
Two years ago I purchased a RedSea 525 (120 gallon) aquarium - all brand new, but couldn't keep corals alive or thriving. I finally ICP tested the water and found tin at 160 and aluminum at 110. For a year I replaced the pumps, reactors, lights, there were no metal clamps, I have no heater, all to no avail. After fighting it for more than a year, I finally dumped the entire set-up (lost $20,000) and bought a smaller RedSea 170 (45 gallons).

Current story:
Same issues, all new equipment. Three months ago I even got rid of the sump and put a larger one in the room, outside the cabinet. New pump, new lights, new reactors, new UV pump and housing, new wave makers (MP10s), new refugium light, new rock, new sand, no metal clamps and the only PVC used are fittings and gate-valves. The ONLY piece of equipment I've had the whole time is the chiller and some MarinePure spheres.

I don't use Zeobit, or the other things Triton ICP testing says could cause it.

The big question:
Is it possible that the chiller is leaching tin and aluminum into this tank?
Or could the MarinePure blocks be contaminated somehow?
I really don't want to spend $750 for a new chiller just to test to see if it's the problem but I'm at a loss as to what else could be causing this.

I've gone through the list of everything provided by everyone on this and every forum out there, yet I still have high tin and aluminum levels - even when changing 20% of the water every week. After two full years, you'd think I could figure it out. With no answers I may have to lose this hobby, which I've put a small fortune into. At wits end!

Not even sure where to turn at this point.

Evaluate the chiller. Take it offline, run it separately to a heated bucket, get test done.

Roger Brooks · Oct 16, 2019

chefjpaul said:
Evaluate the chiller. Take it offline, run it separately to a heated bucket, get test done.

Thanks! Great idea! The one challenge is that I live in Arizona where we "cool" our house down to 76º and the tank would be running at about 83º while I've been keeping it at 77º. Afraid to take it off-line because of that. And there are no "cheap" chillers to tide me over while I test the main one. I did send a request to JBJ to see if it is actually possible for the coils or some part of the chiller to actually corrode or leach tin and aluminum into the water. Will see what they say. Thanks!

Dkeller_nc · Oct 16, 2019

The problem is unlikely to be the chiller, assuming that it was a chiller specifically made for saltwater aquariums. The heat exchangers in these units are typically titanium, and will not leach tin or aluminum. However, you should carefully check the brand and model description; it's certainly possible that some manufacturer that I'm not aware of has cut corners by using a heat exchanger made of different materials, or that it has soldered connections (solder is typically a compound of tin and lead, or tin and silver (silver solder)).

Your aluminum levels are most probably coming from the MarinePure spheres. These sorts of highly porous ceramic blocks and spheres are typically made from alumina-silicate minerals. Finding aluminum in the tank water after using these is quite common. That said, Randy's correct that there's a lot of different possibilities, so in addition to removing the ceramic materials, it's worth evaluating other potential sources.

BeejReef · Oct 16, 2019

Roger Brooks said:
The back story:
Two years ago I purchased a RedSea 525 (120 gallon) aquarium - all brand new, but couldn't keep corals alive or thriving. I finally ICP tested the water and found tin at 160 and aluminum at 110. For a year I replaced the pumps, reactors, lights, there were no metal clamps, I have no heater, all to no avail. After fighting it for more than a year, I finally dumped the entire set-up (lost $20,000) and bought a smaller RedSea 170 (45 gallons).

Current story:
Same issues, all new equipment. Three months ago I even got rid of the sump and put a larger one in the room, outside the cabinet. New pump, new lights, new reactors, new UV pump and housing, new wave makers (MP10s), new refugium light, new rock, new sand, no metal clamps and the only PVC used are fittings and gate-valves. The ONLY piece of equipment I've had the whole time is the chiller and some MarinePure spheres.

I don't use Zeobit, or the other things Triton ICP testing says could cause it.

The big question:
Is it possible that the chiller is leaching tin and aluminum into this tank?
Or could the MarinePure blocks be contaminated somehow?
I really don't want to spend $750 for a new chiller just to test to see if it's the problem but I'm at a loss as to what else could be causing this.

I've gone through the list of everything provided by everyone on this and every forum out there, yet I still have high tin and aluminum levels - even when changing 20% of the water every week. After two full years, you'd think I could figure it out. With no answers I may have to lose this hobby, which I've put a small fortune into. At wits end!

Not even sure where to turn at this point.

Happened upon this post the other day. A "reef safe" coil, but looks likely the welds were not. Worth a look.

Critically High Chromium, with copper and zinc ICP!

ICP test result Above is the link to my ICP test that was taken 23 days after I set up my tank, I received the results last night after a long wait. I had done a 15% and 5% Wc by chance in the interim. last night i dosed triton detox in an effort to reduce the levels. I will perform 2 more 25%...

www.reef2reef.com

Also, you say you replaced your fuge light? I had one of those UFO-style ones and was unhappy with my ICP results.
The exterior hardware on it had corroded quite a bit. The interior was also a mess of fine corrosion. I can only assume there's a lot of solder and other metals in there. Ofc, it has a fan as well, so periodically, it blows its guts out into my stand directly over the sump.

Roger Brooks · Oct 16, 2019

Dkeller_nc said:
The problem is unlikely to be the chiller, assuming that it was a chiller specifically made for saltwater aquariums. The heat exchangers in these units are typically titanium, and will not leach tin or aluminum. However, you should carefully check the brand and model description; it's certainly possible that some manufacturer that I'm not aware of has cut corners by using a heat exchanger made of different materials, or that it has soldered connections (solder is typically a compound of tin and lead, or tin and silver (silver solder)).

Your aluminum levels are most probably coming from the MarinePure spheres. These sorts of highly porous ceramic blocks and spheres are typically made from alumina-silicate minerals. Finding aluminum in the tank water after using these is quite common. That said, Randy's correct that there's a lot of different possibilities, so in addition to removing the ceramic materials, it's worth evaluating other potential sources.

Thank you very much. The chiller is a JBJ 1/5hp Arctica Chiller - made for salt water. I will remove the MarinePure spheres. I see MarinePure blocks in tanks all the time, but perhaps, after a year or so they start to degrade releasing aluminum into the tank?

Dkeller_nc · Oct 17, 2019

You'll get massive arguments back and forth with respect to whether alumina-silicate compounds are appropriate for a reef tank. Some of the phosphate reducers, for example, are aluminum oxide instead of granular ferric oxide.

C. Eymann · Oct 17, 2019

Just curious, how many people who are reporting high tin/aluminum also use a washer to clean socks?

Possible source?

Brian Lenny · Oct 17, 2019

I've had my tank running for 9 months and have done 3 Triton tests. I've gone from 0.1 Tin to 67 Tin, with a jump in Tin from 4 to 67 in the past 4 months (2 tests). The only things I've added are new Maxspect Gyre 300s (replacing my old ones) and MarinePure blocks and balls into the sump. I'm going to inspect and cover the magnets in a zip lock bag and have removed the MarinePure. I've heard that MarinePure can leach out tin. But I wonder (given that so many people use it) whether the form of tin that it leaches isn't bad for the tank?

I have mostly LPS and leathers (about 20 of them, softball size) and all are looking healthy.

JOKER · Oct 19, 2019

I run 3 of the big blocks in my tank. I know my aluminum was high, but im not sure about tin. I will have to send a test out soon. Tank has been running almost 3 years this way though. Acros seem happy, also have zoas, and LPS.

ArnoldosAquariums · Oct 29, 2019

Hey there! Same story here... tin and aluminum. All magnets are covered in plastic, too.

I doubt it's my chiller, right?

However, I do have a topper I made with a screen. Is there a chance that the screen is doing it?

BeejReef · Oct 29, 2019

ArnoldoOffermann said:
Hey there! Same story here... tin and aluminum. All magnets are covered in plastic, too.

I doubt it's my chiller, right?

However, I do have a topper I made with a screen. Is there a chance that the screen is doing it?

dunno.. anything not stainless can corrode, but tin and aluminum are such common complaints that I'd be hesitant to rip up my setup unless I could see obvious corrosion. It's such a common thing, I wonder if it's not something we all have in common.... like corrosion inside lighting fixtures that gets spread around by the on-board cooling fans?