Hydrogen Peroxide Dosing. 1 mL in 10 Gallons Is A Dud Against GHA

Dan_P

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Dosing 3% hydrogen peroxide to an aquarium has been reported as an affective treatment for green hair algae (GHA). Applying it at a rate of 1 mL per 10 gallons, or about 1 ppm, GHA is supposed to die within days. I wondered if this were true because hydrogen peroxide is not stable in an aquarium.

My first test was a “let’s see what happens” type of experiment. In one test, I dosed hydrogen peroxide to a petri dish which contained a mass of growing GHA in 12 mL of medium. A second experiment involved a similar amount of GHA in a petri dish, but this time the dish was submerged in 100 mL of medium. The point of this second experiment was to expose the GHA to much more hydrogen peroxide before it decomposed. Each experiment was dosed daily for six days. The plots below shows how long the hydrogen peroxide lasted after dosing in each experiment. The 12 mL test roughly exposes GHA for a time similar to that in an aquarium. A visual and microscopic examination on day 7 revealed no apparent effect.

EBD90561-61F4-42B8-9334-6BFE0C4DDAC7.png


The next experiment included controls and also tested whether a low nitrate level (10 ppm v 100 ppm) might enhance the effect of H2O2. The cultures were actively growing in 30 mL of medium. This gave an exposure time between the extremes in first experiments. The culture was dosed daily for six days and examined on day 7. No difference was noted between the controls and tests at high and low nitrate levels.

The final test used a GHA culture similar to the one used in the first experiment, but submerged in 1 L of medium to dramatically increase the the exposure time to hydrogen peroxide. The plot below shows the hydrogen peroxide concentration after a daily dose. Unlike the previous experiments, hydrogen peroxide was present throughout the day. The experiment was dosed daily for five days. The before and after photographs below provide no visual evidence of an effect on day 6.

F4305B30-95F8-4207-8A8B-E016A3C6AF82.png


BEFORE
2AAAA2CC-BDD8-4573-AAD0-0E3D81092A6C.jpeg


AFTER

9BA5DD5E-6524-42E1-A9C9-2A3E6F76CADE.jpeg


Why does hydrogen peroxide appear to be an ineffective GHA treatment?

I found numerous scientific papers demonstrating hydrogen peroxide’s deleterious effects on freshwater and marine organisms at or below 1 ppm. Two conditions seem to be important for this effect. The organism has to be susceptible to hydrogen peroxide poisoning and the concentration must be sufficiently high. GHA (or organisms growing on the filaments) seems more than capable destroying hydrogen peroxide, keeping it at very low concentrations. It also seems to be able to keep hydrogen peroxide from entering its filaments even when it cannot completely destroy it. A more careful look might reveal some level of stress experienced by GHA exposed to hydrogen peroxide, but it does not seem to qualify as an algicide.

By the way, these GHA cultures aren't off the hook yet. They are now being exposed to Vibrant.
 

taricha

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Unlike the previous experiments, hydrogen peroxide was present throughout the day. The experiment was dosed daily for five days. The before and after photographs below provide no visual evidence of an effect on day 6.
That's quite a result. I didn't think that was a possibility (peroxide lasting a full cycle yet not damaging the algae target).

Which makes that the second big thing I didn't realize before now, despite the fact that I've done a little bit of peroxide tests vs cyano and dinos in the past. Two things you've brought to my attention that I didn't know could happen.
The first was I assumed that h2o2 hits targets somewhere, that is - even if it doesn't hurt what you were aiming for, it's oxidizing targets somewhere in the tank.
But this isn't true because there are enzymes generated by some of these organisms that can decompose h2o2 without accompanying damage. In other words, sometimes the peroxide just swings and misses.
Sometimes it just makes bubbles and water - that's all.
 
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Dan_P

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That's quite a result. I didn't think that was a possibility (peroxide lasting a full cycle yet not damaging the algae target).

Which makes that the second big thing I didn't realize before now, despite the fact that I've done a little bit of peroxide tests vs cyano and dinos in the past. Two things you've brought to my attention that I didn't know could happen.
The first was I assumed that h2o2 hits targets somewhere, that is - even if it doesn't hurt what you were aiming for, it's oxidizing targets somewhere in the tank.
But this isn't true because there are enzymes generated by some of these organisms that can decompose h2o2 without accompanying damage. In other words, sometimes the peroxide just swings and misses.
Sometimes it just makes bubbles and water - that's all.

Now that you mentioned bubbles, that reminds to look at the Oxydator. After reading the patent, I am left with the feeling that it just makes O2 bubbles, and if any H2O2 escapes catalytic decomposition, it is decomposed fairly quickly. Vibrant experiments go first though.
 

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Maybe the peroxide had degraded in the bottle to 1% or something.

Id love to see how much it takes to kill it.
 

taricha

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Dan avoided that uncertainty by measuring the actual concentration that made it into the sample with the GHA over time. It was in there!
The issue seems to be that algae just have ways of dealing with (some levels) of peroxide.
 
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Maybe the peroxide had degraded in the bottle to 1% or something.

Id love to see how much it takes to kill it.
The concentration-time measurements in my post were made on the water the GHA was growing in.

If there was a small temporary enclosure that could slip over an area in the aquarium with GHA, one could syringe in and then syringe out a concentrated hydrogen peroxide solution without “burning“ nearby creatures. If the enclosure was somewhat flexible, it could form a seal on irregularly shape surfaces to keep the peroxide from leaking out. The operation might be tedious but you could avoid generating large amounts of dead algae all at once and stimulating cyanobacteria growth.
 

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Now that you mentioned bubbles, that reminds to look at the Oxydator. After reading the patent, I am left with the feeling that it just makes O2 bubbles, and if any H2O2 escapes catalytic decomposition, it is decomposed fairly quickly. Vibrant experiments go first though.
In the way ozone just makes O2? The patient, if I recall right states the Oxydator creates "super oxygen" similar to ozone. The peroxide is broken down firstly via it's catalysts and secondly via contact with the inside of the ceramic beaker. Any peroxide left is then quickly broken down in the surrounding water. However, in my experience much depends on the % of peroxide used along with the number of catalyst.
 

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Dosing 3% hydrogen peroxide to an aquarium has been reported as an affective treatment for green hair algae (GHA). Applying it at a rate of 1 mL per 10 gallons, or about 1 ppm, GHA is supposed to die within days. I wondered if this were true because hydrogen peroxide is not stable in an aquarium.

My first test was a “let’s see what happens” type of experiment. In one test, I dosed hydrogen peroxide to a petri dish which contained a mass of growing GHA in 12 mL of medium. A second experiment involved a similar amount of GHA in a petri dish, but this time the dish was submerged in 100 mL of medium. The point of this second experiment was to expose the GHA to much more hydrogen peroxide before it decomposed. Each experiment was dosed daily for six days. The plots below shows how long the hydrogen peroxide lasted after dosing in each experiment. The 12 mL test roughly exposes GHA for a time similar to that in an aquarium. A visual and microscopic examination on day 7 revealed no apparent effect.

EBD90561-61F4-42B8-9334-6BFE0C4DDAC7.png


The next experiment included controls and also tested whether a low nitrate level (10 ppm v 100 ppm) might enhance the effect of H2O2. The cultures were actively growing in 30 mL of medium. This gave an exposure time between the extremes in first experiments. The culture was dosed daily for six days and examined on day 7. No difference was noted between the controls and tests at high and low nitrate levels.

The final test used a GHA culture similar to the one used in the first experiment, but submerged in 1 L of medium to dramatically increase the the exposure time to hydrogen peroxide. The plot below shows the hydrogen peroxide concentration after a daily dose. Unlike the previous experiments, hydrogen peroxide was present throughout the day. The experiment was dosed daily for five days. The before and after photographs below provide no visual evidence of an effect on day 6.

F4305B30-95F8-4207-8A8B-E016A3C6AF82.png


BEFORE
2AAAA2CC-BDD8-4573-AAD0-0E3D81092A6C.jpeg


AFTER

9BA5DD5E-6524-42E1-A9C9-2A3E6F76CADE.jpeg


Why does hydrogen peroxide appear to be an ineffective GHA treatment?

I found numerous scientific papers demonstrating hydrogen peroxide’s deleterious effects on freshwater and marine organisms at or below 1 ppm. Two conditions seem to be important for this effect. The organism has to be susceptible to hydrogen peroxide poisoning and the concentration must be sufficiently high. GHA (or organisms growing on the filaments) seems more than capable destroying hydrogen peroxide, keeping it at very low concentrations. It also seems to be able to keep hydrogen peroxide from entering its filaments even when it cannot completely destroy it. A more careful look might reveal some level of stress experienced by GHA exposed to hydrogen peroxide, but it does not seem to qualify as an algicide.

By the way, these GHA cultures aren't off the hook yet. They are now being exposed to Vibrant.
This recipe is great for dino, not GHA.
 

John3

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I’ve used the that recipe to kill off GHA. I’m surprised you saw no noticeable affect. My GHA started to loose its deep green color after about 2 weeks of dosing. At that point it was no longer growing / spreading. My tank cuc at that point took over and cleaned it up.
 
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Dan_P

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In the way ozone just makes O2? The patient, if I recall right states the Oxydator creates "super oxygen" similar to ozone. The peroxide is broken down firstly via it's catalysts and secondly via contact with the inside of the ceramic beaker. Any peroxide left is then quickly broken down in the surrounding water. However, in my experience much depends on the % of peroxide used along with the number of catalyst.

What did you learn about the peroxide concentration and catalyst numbers? I am thinking of buying an Oxydator.
 

brandon429

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this is linked on page one of our peroxide pest algae challenge thread thank you for your efforts continuing Dan to test our hobby habits
B
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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one thing works as a counterbalance though: a massive searchable database online showing about five thousand happy 1:10 dosers, saying it killed algae. reefcentral has one, TroyLee's thread here has the statements as well. random google searches will show gha succumbing to 1:10 but its spotty, and growback is likely.

Something has to account for that pattern. I myself do not like advising dosing it to the water, that allows for noncompliance and the variation reported here.
 

Jeeperz

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one thing works as a counterbalance though: a massive searchable database online showing about five thousand happy 1:10 dosers, saying it killed algae. reefcentral has one, TroyLee's thread here has the statements as well. random google searches will show gha succumbing to 1:10 but its spotty, and growback is likely.

Something has to account for that pattern. I myself do not like advising dosing it to the water, that allows for noncompliance and the variation reported here.
That's why I tried it. It does work on my zoa frags that I put in a bowl of tank water and keep adding peroxide till it just starts to bubble, let sit a minute, rinse. Put back in tank. I assume it's way more than 1ml per 10 gallon though. I did pull a top rock and scrubbed it of GHA last night. We'll see how long it stays GHA free.
 

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You mentioned

“in my experience much depends on the % of peroxide used along with the number of catalyst.”

I wondered what you meant.
I did, that's true but then I also said other things hence my question.
You can control the amount of oxygen released and in doing so raise the redox. You can go to far buy using a high % of peroxide and or number of catalysts but you have to go well beyond recommended limits. Much will also depend on the size of the aquarium, the animals kept along with the bio load.
If that sounds a complicated issue it's not at all. There is an Oxydator user group on Facebook with lots of information on the use of Oxydators esp in the files section. There are many benefits to using Oxydator rather than direct dosing peroxide into the aquarium esp as Oxydators are a much safer way to use hydrogen peroxide.
 
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Dan_P

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I did, that's true but then I also said other things hence my question.
You can control the amount of oxygen released and in doing so raise the redox. You can go to far buy using a high % of peroxide and or number of catalysts but you have to go well beyond recommended limits. Much will also depend on the size of the aquarium, the animals kept along with the bio load.
If that sounds a complicated issue it's not at all. There is an Oxydator user group on Facebook with lots of information on the use of Oxydators esp in the files section. There are many benefits to using Oxydator rather than direct dosing peroxide into the aquarium esp as Oxydators are a much safer way to use hydrogen peroxide.
Thanks for the info!
 

atoll

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one thing works as a counterbalance though: a massive searchable database online showing about five thousand happy 1:10 dosers, saying it killed algae. reefcentral has one, TroyLee's thread here has the statements as well. random google searches will show gha succumbing to 1:10 but its spotty, and growback is likely.

Something has to account for that pattern. I myself do not like advising dosing it to the water, that allows for noncompliance and the variation reported here.
There are many species of GHA some might just be more resistant to peroxide dosing than others.
 
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