Hydrogen Peroxide Dosing. 1 mL in 10 Gallons Is A Dud Against GHA

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blasterman

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I've used ozone in tanks and found the levels of ozone required to kil brown turf algae or GHA are strong enough to cause skin to fall off SPS and deodorize your room.

Ozone and Peroxide work on similiar mechanisms. If what I found for ozone generators applies to peroxide the levels required to kill GHA are not practical.

Peroxide does have a strong effect on algae encrusted rock frags and such when directly applied and allowed to sit in the air for about 5 minutes. Briefly pouring it on has little effect. You need to let it soak in the open air for about 5 minutes which will not bother coral. May take an additional treatment or two, but even the densest GHA can't handle a direct peroxide application and allowed to sit for a few minutes in the air.

I've been playing with peroxide dosing to see if it has the same maintenance abilities as low level ozone and clearing the water and so far they seem to work very similiar in that respect.
 

mshur

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I've used ozone in tanks and found the levels of ozone required to kil brown turf algae or GHA are strong enough to cause skin to fall off SPS and deodorize your room.

Ozone and Peroxide work on similiar mechanisms. If what I found for ozone generators applies to peroxide the levels required to kill GHA are not practical.

Peroxide does have a strong effect on algae encrusted rock frags and such when directly applied and allowed to sit in the air for about 5 minutes. Briefly pouring it on has little effect. You need to let it soak in the open air for about 5 minutes which will not bother coral. May take an additional treatment or two, but even the densest GHA can't handle a direct peroxide application and allowed to sit for a few minutes in the air.

I've been playing with peroxide dosing to see if it has the same maintenance abilities as low level ozone and clearing the water and so far they seem to work very similiar in that respect.

i am planning to take all rock out for dipping..my concern is beneficial bacteria. otherwise i would use bleach...
 

blasterman

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Guys, i would like to bring this thread back with a question. Planning on re aqua scaping my DT and would like to clean my life rock with peroxide 12% . Some of the rock has briopsys and aptasia. Will i kill all beneficial bacteria but using this method? After peroxide treatment i am planning to keep the rock in the separate tub for a few weeks. Trying to avoid using bleach for that matter..
Your thoughts...
Soaking rock in fresh water with a bottle of vinegar added for a few days will utterly sterilize any marine organism aside from maybe harmless strains of bacteria. If you want it white again (not sure why when it will just turn colors again) use stronger acid.

Bleach, or sodium hypochlorite is full of all kinds of junk, potential industrial metals. got no idea why reefers use bleach when acidic fresh water works just as well and doesn't leave potential residue toxic to any living organism.
 

tvan

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Why not let the rock work dry out? It has the same effect as bleach or peroxide. However when you put the rockwork back into the same environment the algae grows right back.
 

atoll

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if you think i will kill all bacteria by dipping in peroxide maybe best way is to use bleach?
If you use a household bleach use a cheap thin one not the thick type of bleach. Thick bleach tends to stay longer and needs more rinsing adter use than thin bleach.
 
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tvan

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Why not just use roundup? Wow... bleach and porous rock. Why not make a home for your algae somewhere else in your system? It's by far the best natural filtration. And if you grow it outside of your DT the environment won't support it growing inside DT. IHMO
 

brandon429

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harms no bacteria you could test for. Peroxide is a great tool.... for anyone who wants to see application and discern their own rationale its above. Gha is being worked with peroxide

by rasping and then burning the clean rock with peroxide


we just beat ulva with it as well on last pages. By dosing the whole tank.

does not harm reefs. Sub linked on page one is ten years of work examples across forums and about one thousand reefs, logged, so you can update advice not.
 
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brandon429

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Mshur

post a full tank shot

you can see our fixes start by assessing your non algae details, in the pics. You can then see if our win rates are high and low, if people like what we do or hate it, merely a click away.
 

Garf

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However Randy Holmes Farley has concerns about the effects of H2O2 on saltwater. I’m not gonna argue with him, that’s for sure. H202 also affects algae, lipids I believe which makes them toxic. This may prevent algal predation by the usual suspects, snails, fish etc. Just a thought.
 

brandon429

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53 straight pages of dosing the whole tank

what’s the rule again?

if it weren’t for work threads, people could get away with claiming anything. work threads provide balance, reality, expectation, predictability, win and fail patterning, sensitive vs tolerant species, filtration measurement feedback, detailed post treatment follow up and outlier tracking.


they literally save us from having to make up stuff to fill in gaps of practice.


would I advocate dosing water for gha control? No. I’d advocate a sandbed rinse and a rasping run. But if you do dose the water, there above shows what happens to gha for about 80% of applicants.

it tends to grow back is the issue. It’s not a tank wiping agent in the least, work threads show.
 
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brandon429

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glad to have a work potential, but what about customizing the run for your tank

pics

we rarely add it to the water, because we aim for ways to stay gone.
 

Lasse

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I wondered if this were true because hydrogen peroxide is not stable in an aquarium.

Exactly and it is only when it break down to free radicals it will be toxic, If the H2O2 concentration still is high (as in one of your experiments) - it does not work. It is not H2O2 that is toxic - it is its metabolites. Exactly as @Anirban describe it below. This means that if it should be very effective - it is best to dose in rather continuous mode - as the Oxydator does. A continuous dose will guarantee a continuous forming of radicals. I use oxidators to get rid of yellow substances - and it works rather well. I´m no WC guy and my water is NOT yellow the way it should be after nearly 3 years with no WC. If I got problems - I can rise my rate of dosing H2O2 in order to get som free H2O2 in the water and hence a continuous forming of radicals

Hydrogen peroxide basically oxidize biological molecules like protein, lipid or DNA when it breaks down into free radicals such as the hydroxyl (HO·) and hydroperoxyl (HOO·) in presence of metal ions, such as Fe2+ .But to oxidize any biological molecule it needs to get inside the cell. But like plant algae cells also have cell walls. Now 1PPM hydrogen peroxide is equivalent to approx 30uM final concentration. That concentration will barely do any damage to anything in short duration unless chronically exposed.
True
Its killing activity depends only on how much superoxide it generates when it breaks down
True

Sincerely Lasse
 
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brandon429

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Lasse we usually go back and forth for pages on tech issues can I ask you something simple


I know nobody ever takes time to click the work links, but is it possible just once to scan the fifty page one, its 100% 3% being added into tanks at 1 ml per ten gallons, and tell me if you see destruction or even measured reduction of nitrification in any single example of hundreds

our data is not useless. it shows zero harm to the biofilter

if you disagree, then can you please pick a post and point it out as the harmed one
B

if there is one thing I'd love a skeptic to admit, its that this many hundreds of dosings provides legit feedback on danger.

I see you guys always stating danger, but its never in the work threads provided can you help me w that

I show 3% common peroxide to literally be inconsequential to any form of bacteria you can measure in a reef tank using common reef tank kits, the ones we use to infer nitrification action.
 
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Tyler Miceli

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12% will destroy it in minutes, applied in tank it disintegrates before your eyes. I've used 15ml to spot treat GHA in my biocube 32 at one time. Most I've used, everything was fine after.
 

brandon429

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Sam we do not see pods die or reported dead in any work thread.

*surely some will die if they’re in the gha being spot treated, adios bug if thats the case
 

Lasse

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I have never talk about killing nitrification bacteria with 1 ml 3% per 10 G H2O2 because I think it is a to low concentration in order to do a fast kill of whatever.

Does it work against GHA in these concentrations? - probably yes - at least in some aquarium. But it is the pathway directly or indirectly ? There is one indirect pathway that are of interest - the active radicals depletion of bioavailable iron as a lot of persons have highlighted.

Will the formed radicals oxidize (kill) bacteria if the concentration will directly oxidize the cells of GHA - yes - at least active bacteria. Dormant encapsulated bacteria - maybe not.

A very common trick among veterinarians that have been biten by an animal is to use 6 - 12 % H2O2 directly on the wound - it will kill everything.

I have one huge problem with your way of thinking @brandon429. You do a thing and observe a result . Other does the same thing and some observe the same result. Your way of thinking is lead to the conclusion that thing you did is the cause of the result. It remind me about an old history that I get told when I was young.

A man spread a white powder on the streets of Gothenburg. People ask why he did that. Oh - it is the most effective treatment against Tigers that exist. But there lives no Tigers in Sweden - replied the questioner. Yes said the man - you see by yourself how effective the powder is :D

I´m sorry to say - this way of putting together different observations and explain what´s happen only based of that this happens simultaneously is a sickness in our society today. This have nothing to do with science - but hopefully it will change.

I have another example - when transporting some sensitive fresh water fish it have shown up that around 4 promille table salt in the transport water will make them survive the transport. Table salt is a bactericide and the explanation was that the salt kill bacteria thats otherwise had killed the sensitive fish. There is only one catch here - in other experiments it have been shown that 4 promille salt do not kill anything. Instead is the real effect is that some salt in the transport lower the osmotic pressure (osmotic stress) on these sensitive fish and they will therefore have a higher surviving rate when transported.

If you stress that 1 ml 3% peroxid per 10 G kill GHA because x amount of examples in aquarium has shown this but @Dan_P shows with direct experiments that nothing happens.

You yell at Dan that your examples show that he is wrong and he does just the opposite and reality may show that you are both right. If the real effect of adding this low concentration of H2O2 to a working aquarium not is a direct kill the observed result (no GHA) must have another explanation. If instead could be a depletion of important biological building blocks that give the observed effect in all of your pages - your both right but nobody have the scientific evidence that prove what´s happens

I have an own example. I move my Oxydator to another compartment in my sump. Directly after this - my low winter pH rise to the levels it use to have during summer (lesser CO2 in the room - open doors). The direct comments of this is that peroxide will rise the pH. Problem - there is no other evidence either theoretical or practical for this. The breakdown of peroxide should be pH neutral. Still two facts on the table - I move my oxydator and the pH probe show a rise in the average pH. Two factors have been taken out from the discussion - the CO2 in the room is still the same (I have a meter) and the dose of Na2CO3 is the same. I will investigate this further before I do any conclusions.

Sincerely Lasse

Sincerely Lasse
 
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