I’m not sure I buy the 72 day ich claim.

[Lionfish hunter]

I see many people arguing to quarantine for 72 days because they site 1 specific study that showed a strain of ich was in the tomont stage for 72 days under quite cold conditions. These people argue to the death that there is a known strain of ich that needs 72 days. I argue there is NO such strain just because somebody got ich to live for 72 days in cold water. This is in no way relevant to reef keeping at 78 degrees, way no how. I am 45 days into quarantine because I am not positive I am right. But how could I be wrong? I am open to your thoughts but I’m about to end this insanely long quarantine. I have treated ich many times and copper always kills the ich in 14 days. And seeing as copper only kills the free swimmers, if there were this 72 day strain, I fail to see how copper would be so effective. I have seen as many false information claims on these forums as I have seen false claims in politics. I have to say, I don’t buy this one.

 

[TheDragonsReef]

I've been doing 3-4 weeks in copper and another 2-3 for observation

 

[Azedenkae]

I am 45 days into quarantine because I am not positive I am right.

This is probably the key phrase here. I have not had to deal with marine ich in a while so I cannot remember if this is exactly correct, but higher temperatures would speed up ich's life cycle and make it not last 72 days or whatever it is. The issue is, if I am not wrong, no one is sure how many days less it is, so the 72 days is chosen to be better safe than sorry. Unless someone has proven irrevocably that a certain number of days is all that is needed for a certain temperature for all strains or something to that effect, people probably just want to be absolutely certain that they won't spread ich throughout their tank, because to them waiting for potentially unnecessarily additional number of days is better than even a tiny risk of losing a lot of their fish to ich.

 

[Lionfish hunter]

This is probably the key phrase here. I have not had to deal with marine ich in a while so I cannot remember if this is exactly correct, but higher temperatures would speed up ich's life cycle and make it not last 72 days or whatever it is. The issue is, if I am not wrong, no one is sure how many days less it is, so the 72 days is chosen to be better safe than sorry. Unless someone has proven irrevocably that a certain number of days is all that is needed for a certain temperature for all strains or something to that effect, people probably just want to be absolutely certain that they won't spread ich throughout their tank, because to them waiting for potentially unnecessarily additional number of days is better than even a tiny risk of losing a lot of their fish to ich.

Waiting out of caution is fine, but that is being preached by every "expert" with information to back it up that is not being used correctly. The sources that are cited for the 70 something day rule are irrelevant. Does anybody have any real information for these insanely long quarantines? And again, how would copper work so well in 14 day dosing if ich really lays dormant in a cyst for months in warm water?

 

[mdb_talon]

Waiting out of caution is fine, but that is being preached by every "expert" with information to back it up that is not being used correctly. The sources that are cited for the 70 something day rule are irrelevant. Does anybody have any real information for these insanely long quarantines? And again, how would copper work so well in 14 day dosing if ich really lays dormant in a cyst for months in warm water?

The 72 or 76 day period as you know was based off a study that found that 72 days was the longest lifecycle they found so it is widely used as the baselne to he absolutely sure. The "experts" you denigrate are just sharing that info. The study with the 72 days was done at 68 degrees. I think i remember seeing that at reef temps it would be more like 6 weeks.

In any case it seems like you know all this but just want to rant against the people using the 72 day guidance. If you want to stop at 45 days go for it.

 

[Azedenkae]

Waiting out of caution is fine, but that is being preached by every "expert" with information to back it up that is not being used correctly. The sources that are cited for the 70 something day rule are irrelevant. Does anybody have any real information for these insanely long quarantines? And again, how would copper work so well in 14 day dosing if ich really lays dormant in a cyst for months in warm water?

Ah, well in that case I don't have much to offer as I have not really seen it. I don't quarantine (yet) so have yet to really look into it, and have yet have people tell me what to do. So I don't really know if people are being overly annoying about it or if they are just stating information. I mean sometimes people do want to help but don't have much time, so information presented may be a bit 'too' short and sweet.

By the way, I found this article, posted recently: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0044848617317544

Might be of interest. I have yet to read it, but seems like there may be some pertinent info in there.

 

[Lionfish hunter]

The 72 or 76 day period as you know was based off a study that found that 72 days was the longest lifecycle they found so it is widely used as the baselne to he absolutely sure. The "experts" you denigrate are just sharing that info. The study with the 72 days was done at 68 degrees. I think i remember seeing that at reef temps it would be more like 6 weeks.

In any case it seems like you know all this but just want to rant against the people using the 72 day guidance. If you want to stop at 45 days go for it.

They are telling people to wait 75 days because of a study done in 68 degree water. I have a huge problem with this. Maybe you really do need to wait ich out for 75 days, but the reasoning that is being used is certainly not why. It is information used in a incorrect way. I would be okay with people saying I would wait 75 days out of caution. But certainly not wait 76 days because of an irrelevant study.

 

[Paul B]

That 72 day thing was from Burgess, Axelrod and another scientist, I forget his name. But that was in a laboratory in the 70s and early 80s.

 

[Hincapiej4]

Dude, just do your 45 days. Other people can do their 72.

The truth is..nobody cares. People give you the information, and it's up to you how you'd like to proceed. Your tank, your choice.

 

[Azedenkae]

Dude, just do your 45 days. Other people can do their 72.

The truth is..nobody cares. People give you the information, and it's up to you how you'd like to proceed. Your tank, your choice.

Yeah at this point I gotta agree. Saying that it is an irrelevant study is incorrect. It is relevant, because there is no better source for reference that they may be aware of, so they had to use the next best thing.

So yeah, @Lionfish hunter do whatever the heck you want. No one really cares at this point, your aquarium, your choice. Some people don't even do quarantines, so up to you when you want to end it or whatever. Other people will appreciate at least some point of reference with the 72 or 75 or 76 or whatever number of days it is, and that's fine. You don't agree, that's fine too, do what you want.

 

[rlman41299]

I have dealt with marine ich myself and the initial treatment lasted me 6-8 weeks due to running the main display tank fallow for that long. Treatment of my livestock under a separate tank only lasted 2-3 weeks under copper but took longer since I ran the main tank fallow for 6-8 weeks.
Succeeding quarantine of livestock only took 3-4 weeks and transferred to main tank after that. I'm not an expert but copper treatment I believe only takes 2 weeks.

 

[secret_reefer337]

There is a post made by @Jay Hemdal few weeks or a month/s ago that the fallow period is safe at 45 days at higher temp. I believe that I have read the same from a different forum and humblefish mentioned the same.

Quarantine wise is 14 days copper then transfer to sterile tank for another 14 days observation OR 30 days copper then 14 days observation without copper in qt tank.

 

[Rubberfrog]

Tangs need a minimum tank size of at least... sorry, wrong argument thread....

 

[AbjectMaelstroM]

I wouldn't call it preaching by experts. It's mentioned by Humblefish, Big G and a few others whom I would actually consider experts, that the 70+ day fallow is based on a single case study, as you mentioned. You aren't required by law to wait that amount of time. Your tank, do what you want. Is it possible ich survives past 70+ days? Sure. Is it possible that it doesn't need 70+ days? Sure. It's done out of abundance of caution and to cover the most "bases" so to speak.

Not really sure what kind of answer you were looking for that hasn't already been provided numerous times before across this forum. Also, I would caution against characterizing anyone with a keyboard and an internet connection to an online forum an expert (though I'm guessing your statement was meant as sarcasm) . Take the information that's available, make your own conclusion that jives with a level of risk that's acceptable to you and then execute that plan. I don't don't think reef police is going to knock down your door if you don't do a 70+ day fallow period.

 

[Lionfish hunter]

Dude, just do your 45 days. Other people can do their 72.

The truth is..nobody cares. People give you the information, and it's up to you how you'd like to proceed. Your tank, your choice.

Other people can do 72 days, I've said that is perfectly fine. But it is not okay to tell people to wait 72 days because of a study done under conditions completely different to what we keep our tanks at. That is the definition of bad information. DO NOT TELL PEOPLE TO DO SOMETHING BECAUSE OF INCORRECT REASONING.

 

[Lionfish hunter]

Tangs need a minimum tank size of at least... sorry, wrong argument thread....

Bro, it is animal cruelty to keep a tang in a tank less than 12' long and or 1200 gallons. Fact

 

[Lionfish hunter]

Also I have no issue with any of these people, they are not being paid to help us. But when I see reasoning being used without real evidence based on bad information, I'm going to speak up. A lot of bad aquarium advice out there. Just doing my part to call it out. They have plenty of great advice.

 

[Rubberfrog]

Bro, it is animal cruelty to keep a tang in a tank less than 12' long and or 1200 gallons. Fact

My neighbor had a friend that kept 17 tangs in a nano, and they all live to be 30 years old. They all sang and did tricks at feeding time too!

45 days is sufficient for ich at typical reef tank temperatures. If you plan on sea horses and colder temps, go with 79 days.

 

[Lionfish hunter]

My neighbor had a friend that kept 17 tangs in a nano, and they all live to be 30 years old. They all sang and did tricks at feeding time too!

45 days is sufficient for ich at typical reef tank temperatures. If you plan on sea horses and colder temps, go with 79 days.

I think that is probably good information. Honestly less time in my experience, but that is anecdotal evidence so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Rubberfrog]

I think that is probably good information. Honestly less time in my experience, but that is anecdotal evidence so take it with a grain of salt.

I haven't done a study myself, so I can only function as a parrot and regurgitate what I have read over the years. Most of it comes from others who are simply regurgitating as well. There are a few that seem more qualified to have an opinion (i.e. jay H), and I try to listen to them whenever possible.