I lost my first fish today after FW dip for flukes

[cmkeen0113]

I purchased a very healthy looking male Lyretail Anthias and Royal Gramma from a LFS. They immediately went into my 20 G QT. After more than 2 weeks of feeding/observing, API General Cure treatment per directions, then slowly raising Copper Power to 2 ppm, they were doing great. Then 2 days ago the Gramma showed signs of flukes. So I freshwater dipped him per Humblefish guidelines. Yep, he had flukes. But he has been doing great since. Last night, the Anthias showed signs of flukes. So this morning I FW dipped him with the same procedure. The dip container was absolutely full of flukes afterwards. Unfortunately, he died about 2 hours after the dip. And now I am putting the QT to hyposaline conditions to rid it of flukes since I don't want to mix prazipro with copper. This particular LFS tried to talk me out of setting up a QT. I won't buy any more fish from them. Word of advice - don't listen to people who say QT's are not necessary. Thank goodness this happened in my QT rather then my DT.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I purchased a very healthy looking male Lyretail Anthias and Royal Gramma from a LFS. They immediately went into my 20 G QT. After more than 2 weeks of feeding/observing, API General Cure treatment per directions, then slowly raising Copper Power to 2 ppm, they were doing great. Then 2 days ago the Gramma showed signs of flukes. So I freshwater dipped him per Humblefish guidelines. Yep, he had flukes. But he has been doing great since. Last night, the Anthias showed signs of flukes. So this morning I FW dipped him with the same procedure. The dip container was absolutely full of flukes afterwards. Unfortunately, he died about 2 hours after the dip. And now I am putting the QT to hyposaline conditions to rid it of flukes since I don't want to mix prazipro with copper. This particular LFS tried to talk me out of setting up a QT. I won't buy any more fish from them. Word of advice - don't listen to people who say QT's are not necessary. Thank goodness this happened in my QT rather then my DT.

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

Here is the issue with FW dips for flukes: it is a stop-gap measure, to provide some temporary relief, but it is mostly a diagnostic tool. The trouble is that when you do a full FW dip, all of the flukes drop off the fish at once. If the fluke infestation was really high, that leaves hundreds of tiny holes in the fish's skin, and they literally bleed out and die from anemia. I've experimented with the idea of trying to give the fish a "mild" FW dip, to knock *some* of the flukes off, and then wait a few days for the fish to heal its skin a bit and then dip them again to knock more flukes off...the idea being to gradually lower the fluke infestation as the fish heals the skin lesions in between dips. Does this work? Perhaps, but it is REALLY difficult to judge - too short of a time and you don't remove any flukes, too long, and they bleed out. I have had it work in some cases, but the whole process is dicey at best. The basic conclusion is - if the fish dies from a FW dip, it was just too sick to survive, sorry!

Jay

 

[cmkeen0113]

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

Here is the issue with FW dips for flukes: it is a stop-gap measure, to provide some temporary relief, but it is mostly a diagnostic tool. The trouble is that when you do a full FW dip, all of the flukes drop off the fish at once. If the fluke infestation was really high, that leaves hundreds of tiny holes in the fish's skin, and they literally bleed out and die from anemia. I've experimented with the idea of trying to give the fish a "mild" FW dip, to knock *some* of the flukes off, and then wait a few days for the fish to heal its skin a bit and then dip them again to knock more flukes off...the idea being to gradually lower the fluke infestation as the fish heals the skin lesions in between dips. Does this work? Perhaps, but it is REALLY difficult to judge - too short of a time and you don't remove any flukes, too long, and they bleed out. I have had it work in some cases, but the whole process is dicey at best. The basic conclusion is - if the fish dies from a FW dip, it was just too sick to survive, sorry!

Jay

Wow, thanks for the info. What you said is interesting because the Royal Gramma only had a handful of flukes drop off while the Anthias had a huge amount. Prior to dipping them I could see the flukes on the Gramma, but not so much on the Anthias, which is weird. I dipped them both for 5 minutes each. Based on what you said, maybe I should have taken my chances and treated with Prazipro, even though there was 2 ppm copper in the tank, and taken my chances with a bacterial outbreak. Oh well, it was a beautiful $45 male anthias pet for a couple of weeks.

 

[Ulee]

Was ur QT stablished before introducing fish or recent set up?

 

[cmkeen0113]

It has a well established bio system . I use a Tidal Wave 35 with bio media in it and also have two pieces of coral on the bare bottom. I have an ammonia alert badge in the tank and it is yellow in color.What's wierd is that both fish were doing great for two weeks - very active and eating great. And what's even more weird is that I could see the flukes on the Royal Gramma but not so much on the Anthias. Turns out the Gramma only had a few on him and the Anthias had a bunch. So what Jay said makes a lot of sense why the Anthias died due to "all the holes in it's skin" when the flukes dropped off.

 

[kenchilada]

QT is rough. I want an Achilles but I’m absolutely dreading quarantining a fish off that expense. I’d probably slit my wrists if I killed it.

 

[User1]

Not going to play arm chair QB here especially when I do not QT. However, if I was to go through the process I would have done the freshwater dip before going into the QT system. While it makes it somewhat difficult to see I would strongly suggest using Methylene blue if you are going down that road. Also you must be at the bedside during the whole process to observe. You do not want jumpers but more importantly you have to assess the fish behaviour which lends a hand of a dip (5 - 15 minutes) to a bath (15 to 30 minutes). They are different and each fish is different.

9 out of 10 times if the fish doesn't survive the dip or bath it isn't going to survive the QT process.

 

[cmkeen0113]

QT is rough. I want an Achilles but I’m absolutely dreading quarantining a fish off that expense. I’d probably slit my wrists if I killed it.

I hear you. That is why I have started out with relatively inexpensive fish. Although the Anthias I lost was $45, which isn't exactly pocket change. But if I had put it directly in my DT and not my QT, then I probably would have also lost my two Black Snowflake Clowns, Starlight Blenny and Tomini Tang in my DT.

 

[cmkeen0113]

Not going to play arm chair QB here especially when I do not QT. However, if I was to go through the process I would have done the freshwater dip before going into the QT system. While it makes it somewhat difficult to see I would strongly suggest using Methylene blue if you are going down that road. Also you must be at the bedside during the whole process to observe. You do not want jumpers but more importantly you have to assess the fish behaviour which lends a hand of a dip (5 - 15 minutes) to a bath (15 to 30 minutes). They are different and each fish is different.

9 out of 10 times if the fish doesn't survive the dip or bath it isn't going to survive the QT process.

Thanks. I had already decided that I would do a FW dip of all new fish going forward. What I'm wondering if that means doing the full 5 minute dip, or just 3-4 if not flukes are visible. I also saw another post that mentioned adding Safety Stop 2 (methylene blue & formalin) to the dip water. Have you ever tried that?

 

[LegendaryCG]

QT is rough. I want an Achilles but I’m absolutely dreading quarantining a fish off that expense. I’d probably slit my wrists if I killed it.

Can order from a place that qts for you, of course you are still assuming they did it right.

 

[User1]

Thanks. I had already decided that I would do a FW dip of all new fish going forward. What I'm wondering if that means doing the full 5 minute dip, or just 3-4 if not flukes are visible. I also saw another post that mentioned adding Safety Stop 2 (methylene blue & formalin) to the dip water. Have you ever tried that?

No, I have not. I have heard and read about it but not tried it. The main reason why I prefer the use of Methylene blue while doing a freshwater dip is because of the aided oxygenation it provides. I won't do a dip or bath without it plain and simple. I know many call it old school but it works for me. In fact I just put 7 sapphire and 1 surge damselfish though the process earlier in the week with a 100% success rate.

Search on Mr. Fenners write up on dips or baths as they are different. Wet Web Media has it.

Edit: for clarity this is just how I do things in my system.

 

[kenchilada]

No, I have not. I have heard and read about it but not tried it. The main reason why I prefer the use of Methylene blue while doing a freshwater dip is because of the aided oxygenation it provides. I won't do a dip or bath without it plain and simple. I know many call it old school but it works for me. In fact I just put 7 sapphire and 1 surge damselfish though the process earlier in the week with a 100% success rate.

Search on Mr. Fenners write up on dips or baths as they are different. Wet Web Media has it.

Edit: for clarity this is just how I do things in my system.

I’m a methylene blue user as well. It’s old school but so am I. Saved my tang from ammonia burn.

 

[cmkeen0113]

No, I have not. I have heard and read about it but not tried it. The main reason why I prefer the use of Methylene blue while doing a freshwater dip is because of the aided oxygenation it provides. I won't do a dip or bath without it plain and simple. I know many call it old school but it works for me. In fact I just put 7 sapphire and 1 surge damselfish though the process earlier in the week with a 100% success rate.

Search on Mr. Fenners write up on dips or baths as they are different. Wet Web Media has it.

Edit: for clarity this is just how I do things in my system.

Thanks. I will search for Mr. Fenners write-up. And where do you buy the methylene blue and how much do you use in a small specimen container that is used for dipping?

 

[cmkeen0113]

I’m a methylene blue user as well. It’s old school but so am I. Saved my tang from ammonia burn.

If you are doing a FW dip in a relatively small container, like a plastic specimen container, how much methylene blue would you add?

 

[kenchilada]

If you are doing a FW dip in a relatively small container, like a plastic specimen container, how much methylene blue would you add?

I’ve only used it as a bath (30 minutes. Directions depend on the exact product you use. I use Kordons and follow the directions here:

Methylene Blue

Methylene Blue What It Treats – Healing agent which treats ammonia burn, abrasions, cuts. Mild antiparasitic/antibacterial properties. Will possibly detoxify a fish that has been exposed to cyanide poisoning. Probably one of the best “first response” treatments for a sick fish. How To Treat –...

www.reef2reef.com

Read this too, I think this is what @saf1 was referring to as well:

Dips/Baths

 

[User1]

Thanks. I will search for Mr. Fenners write-up. And where do you buy the methylene blue and how much do you use in a small specimen container that is used for dipping?

Let me see, I picked it up from Amazon I recall. Kordon Methylene Blue. There are other brands and I would recommend following their guide on mixing. I used to use a gallon bucket but recently moved to a 5 gallon bucket but only use 3 gallons of water (gives me room if they jump - which some do).

@kenchilada - yes, that is the link. Thanks.