I need help with a bean animal style overflow system not staying at a constant level in the overflow.

[Guppyguppy]

What causes the level in the overflow to fluctuate? I have a innovative marine nuvo 113int lagoon that has a bean animal overflow. The water level in the overflow fluctuates with the return chamber in the sump. If the return chamber is low due to evaporated water, the overflow chamber is also low. The problem with that is when i top off the water to the marked line in the return chamber, for what ever reason over time the salinity is creeping up like i am not adding enough water. How do i correct this? i don't have a auto topoff and was planning to start off by doing manual top off as i really hate auto top off systems.

 

[YOYOYOReefer]

what are you using for your top off water, saltwater?

 

[Logical_Plan]

What causes the level in the overflow to fluctuate? I have a innovative marine nuvo 113int lagoon that has a bean animal overflow. The water level in the overflow fluctuates with the return chamber in the sump. If the return chamber is low due to evaporated water, the overflow chamber is also low. The problem with that is when i top off the water to the marked line in the return chamber, for what ever reason over time the salinity is creeping up like i am not adding enough water. How do i correct this? i don't have a auto topoff and was planning to start off by doing manual top off as i really hate auto top off systems.

Is it fair to assume that you have tuned your overflow drains?

What Innovative marine calls the first EM overflow is supposed to be a partial siphon. It is this pipe that sets the water level in the overflow box. Close the gate valve on the full siphon drain till the water in the overflow just starts to flow in the first EM drain(IM labeling) also known as the partial siphon. This should keep overflow water level constant.

More details here:

Silent & Fail-Safe Aquarium Overflow System | BeanAnimal's Reef

Build the world famous "Bean Animal" silent and fail-safe aquarium overflow system. No noise, no adjustment, no floods. A truly set and forget setup that makes the Durso and Stockman style of standpipes obsolete! Build your own today!

beananimal.com

 

[OCJoeR]

I seem to have the same issue as Guppy. I have a Bean Animal with the 3 drains on one side of the tank and the return on the opposite side. The first chamber of the sump, where the drain lines enter, has just the heater. The second chamber has my skimmer and the third chamber has a Hygger pump, which has a "Feed" cycle that allows me to shut off the pump for about 10 minutes to feed the fish and then automatically turns back on. I had every thing adjusted so that the water level in the overflow box was just about at the height of the top of the elbows on the 2 primary drains. (the emergency drain has the elbow turned up). I had to tinker with the ball valve on the main drain (the Siphon in the Bean Animal diagram) and the pump speed (it's adjustable) to get it set correctly. Now, for some reason, when the pump starts up after a feeding the water level in the overflow box goes almost to the emergency overflow pipe. I adjusted the pump speed higher and it seemed to drop the level down but the next feeding it did the same thing.

One thing I never understood about the Bean Animal system is that, according to the diagrams and pictures, the main drain (Siphon) and the secondary drain (Open Channel) are at the same level. Won't the water drain into both of these drains at the same rate?

Joe

 

[Logical_Plan]

I seem to have the same issue as Guppy. I have a Bean Animal with the 3 drains on one side of the tank and the return on the opposite side. The first chamber of the sump, where the drain lines enter, has just the heater. The second chamber has my skimmer and the third chamber has a Hygger pump, which has a "Feed" cycle that allows me to shut off the pump for about 10 minutes to feed the fish and then automatically turns back on. I had every thing adjusted so that the water level in the overflow box was just about at the height of the top of the elbows on the 2 primary drains. (the emergency drain has the elbow turned up). I had to tinker with the ball valve on the main drain (the Siphon in the Bean Animal diagram) and the pump speed (it's adjustable) to get it set correctly. Now, for some reason, when the pump starts up after a feeding the water level in the overflow box goes almost to the emergency overflow pipe. I adjusted the pump speed higher and it seemed to drop the level down but the next feeding it did the same thing.

One thing I never understood about the Bean Animal system is that, according to the diagrams and pictures, the main drain (Siphon) and the secondary drain (Open Channel) are at the same level. Won't the water drain into both of these drains at the same rate?

Joe

It is expected on startup that some water may flow in the EM drain till air is purged. Should balance out quickly as long as drains are not submerged more than 1.5" in sump.

Full siphon will handle most of the flow even if they are the same height. Because no air will let it run a high gpm compared to the partial siphon. The air in the partial siphon let's the water cling to the sides keeping it quiet.

 

[OCJoeR]

It is expected on startup that some water may flow in the EM drain till air is purged. Should balance out quickly as long as drains are not submerged more than 1.5" in sump.

Full siphon will handle most of the flow even if they are the same height. Because no air will let it run a high gpm compared to the partial siphon. The air in the partial siphon let's the water cling to the sides keeping it quiet.

Hi Logical. I'm going to have to check how far into the sump the drain lines go. Thank you for the info.

 

[Guppyguppy]

what are you using for your top off water, saltwater?

no, just rodi water

 

[Guppyguppy]

Is it fair to assume that you have tuned your overflow drains?

What Innovative marine calls the first EM overflow is supposed to be a partial siphon. It is this pipe that sets the water level in the overflow box. Close the gate valve on the full siphon drain till the water in the overflow just starts to flow in the first EM drain(IM labeling) also known as the partial siphon. This should keep overflow water level constant.

More details here:

https://beananimal.com/projects/sil...shouldn't move with the evaporation correct?

http://

 

[Guppyguppy]

ok so i have the water level in my sump marked in the return chamber at where i want it when it is topped off. At this point the water level in the overflow chamber barely trickles into the partial siphon which is perfect, but as soon as there is evaporation in the return chamber (so the water level in the return chamber at this point is below the marked line) the level in the over flow is also low (below the partial siphon and no longer trickling down). Why is this? Is the gate valve out of tune? if so how do i get it so the water level only fluctuates in the return chamber and not in the overflow?

 

[Guppyguppy]

and my drain lines are about 1" under water

 

[Guppyguppy]

or maybe i need some clarifications on the correct way to tune a gate valve. It is a sicce 4000 return pump and i don't have a ball valve on the return. The water flow into the display feels really weak, could that be the cause? i was told this pump should be enough for this size tank

 

[Logical_Plan]

Ok, think of it this way. Return pump supply's a fixed flow to your tank. If you collected all the flow in a container for 10 seconds that would give you the input to the tank.

Now using the same container with the return pump running, put it under main siphon drain. The container should only fill up 80% of the level of the return pump test.

it fills equal or more than the return pump test. Close the gate or ball valve on the main siphon and take another 10 second test. Repeat by restricting the primary siphon more and more till it only fills 80 % of the level your return pump provided over 10 seconds.

 

[NickSc]

As the water level in the pump chamber reduces so does the rate of return. With water going into the tank at a slower rate the main siphon is able to handle the load by itself. This will always happen unless you get an ato and keep the water level in the pump chamber constant. But I honestly wouldn't worry about it too much. There should be little effect on salinity on this ying yang process.

 

[CollectOyster04]

Curious as to how much water do you let evaporate before topping off ? I concur with the above statement with water level affecting pump rate. I can tell if something happened with the ato by seeing the level in my external skimmer had dropped. Telltale sign the water level is low in my return section.
Even when that happens, my overflow(bean animal) isn't affected as much as my skimmer. If it were me, I'd try to close the gate valve on my main line a hair and see if that doesn't help. That and try to be more consistent with topping off the tank to not let the water level fluctuate too much.

 

[Guppyguppy]

Thanks guys, i did not know the pump flow rate would reduce if the level in the pump chamber is reduced, thats interesting. I guess i let about 1-1.5gallon evaporate before topping off. I was concerned because this seemed to have an effect on my salinity or so i thought initially. I will have to keep double checking the salinity level couple of days to see. So the consensus is that the fluctuation in the overflow is normal if i let the return chamber get a little low from evaporation correct?.

 

[NickSc]

That is correct. And you may want to top off your tank a little more often.

 

[Morpheosz]

Thanks guys, i did not know the pump flow rate would reduce if the level in the pump chamber is reduced, thats interesting. I guess i let about 1-1.5gallon evaporate before topping off. I was concerned because this seemed to have an effect on my salinity or so i thought initially. I will have to keep double checking the salinity level couple of days to see. So the consensus is that the fluctuation in the overflow is normal if i let the return chamber get a little low from evaporation correct?.

I know this thread is getting a bit dated but I'm struggling with my IM75 bean animal as well. To provide a tad more info on the flow rate situation you referenced, the reason it changes based on the sump water height is that the higher the water level in your return the more downward pressure there is from that water on the pump which is helping the pump by effectively reducing the head pressure by that amount. It's really the same as if you just raised the whole sump up by that much reducing some of the head pressure on the pump. Best to get an ATO to keep the level consistent if that causes you issues.

My issue is that I have a gravity fed ATO that keeps my water level perfectly consistent but I still cannot get the level to stay consistent in my overflow. There is about a 1" diff in height between my full siphon and EM drain, and when the water level is at the point that it's either close to the EM height or barely trickling, everything is silent and wonderful. However, without changing anything on my pump or gate valve, my water will fluctuate up and down over an inch up to a few times a day where I have to keep adjusting the pump. If it gets too low, there is a lot of trickling over the weir which is annoying and ultimately bubbling down the full siphon. If it gets too high, the flow down the EM is annoyingly loud. Additional context is my sump is in the basement so I have quite a bit of head pressure and maybe that is making tuning more finnicky? I started with a pair of Current USA eFlux 6010 pumps both running (for redundancy) and my flow was pretty low (about 220 gph). I also thought running 2 pumps that were struggling may have made the output inconsistent so I bought a single Jebao DCP-10000 which gives me good flow of around 420gph. It has an output control in 1% increments which makes adjustment easy but I'm literally running up and down the stairs 3-4x per day turning it up or down 1-2%.

Any thoughts on this situation would be appreciated as it's driving me a bit mad. Are these DC pumps just particularly inconsistent in their output? What would cause them to be pumping at one level and then an hour later be 1+" lower? Can I put a gate valve on the EM to keep the water level up close to the surface to quiet it perhaps or any other tips to keep it quiet if I were to keep the water level up over that? (I do have the 3rd emergency overflow plumbed so it should be safe). Are there any other pumps that would be more bullet proof on consistency (keeping in mind that I have 10' or so of head pressure)? I'm open to any and all options at this point!

 

[NickSc]

Is there any way to separate your main drain from your emergency drain by more than an inch? An inch is not a lot of room.

 

[Balthazar]

It could possibly be that theses variable flow dc pumps are inconsistent with their output.
I was just about to type that as i finished reading your post.
Personally i never had a bean animal drain, i ran a herbie drain for years with a ac pump and a ATO , never an issue.

 

[Morpheosz]

Is there any way to separate your main drain from your emergency drain by more than an inch? An inch is not a lot of room.

Hmm.. perhaps, but this is what came "out of the box" with this tank - Nuvo INT-75. I'm not sure there is a lot of leeway though given the weir is at a fixed height and I don't really want to lower the full siphon because if the water goes down an inch it starts making trickling / splashing as it lands from the weir - even if the siphon were to continue working properly. I'm considering seeing if I can squeeze a pair of elbows on to the EM drain to at least quiet it down when it is trickling over it.