I think I should start over

[Mike1995]

Do you have any current pictures of your tank and some close ups your zoa's? What is the tanks temp, what is your alk/cal levels, magnesium level? pH level and last but not least nitrate and phosphate levels?

Patience. Keep doing your water changes. Think of this as a marathon.

You just started to deal with the problems. What we need to do is get into a routine. Every week change X percentage of water. Test, and manually remove the bad stuff. Every 3 days change your socks.

One you get into a routine, and get things more routine oriented’ now we can tackle the other issues one at a time.

If the crab was walking over the zoas they would be ****** and closed.

I know that I will never run a tank that is newly set up with sand again. I think that causes a ton of problems if not cleaned regularly or properly.

Here's some pictures. My phone doesn't take very good pics when the light starts ramping down.
I don't know all the parameters.. I'm on a budget so I've been saving a little at a time to get each one. But the alk is 8, pH is 8.2, temp is 79/80, nitrates are at somewhere between 5 and 10ppm, and phosphate is .05. I stopped using the phosban reactor like you all suggested.


Unfortunately I do find the crabs causing all sorts of mischief.

 

[Mike1995]

Some of them are open mostly but still have a few heads closed. Others just don't open at all. Do I have them placed correctly?

 

[Mike1995]

Start thinking in terms of months. you're only 12 days into this. There are billions of organisms in your tank in addition to the ones you can see. It takes a lot of time, trial and error, for them to find a happy balance that you will like. Don't worry about your zoas for now and stay focused in the big picture. I've had zoas get unhappy for 3 months before reopening. Don't get hung up on too much flow right now. Corals tend to be pretty tolerant of flow, especially if it's not a steady stream.

Today, as I have most Saturdays for nearly 8 months , got out the brushes and scrubbed my rocks and the plugs of the corals, siphoned the sand bed, turned on all the pumps to create a ton of turbulence and tomorrow morning I'll change the filter socks (given them a chance to catch the stuff I kicked up into the water column)

NOTE: I will be adding a UV, since I did make a change involving GFO and all fingers are pointing to dinos. See what I did? After holding steady and giving the tank time to start looking really nice, I made an impulse change that backfired. I should have been testing my PO4 before making change. The only good is that this set back is indicative of dinos and not cyano.

Reef tanks are like the stock market. If you get hung up on daily swings, you'll have a nervous breakdown. Think long term, hold steady and make small changes, like steering a sail boat.

The tank has been running for 7-8 months now but I did a lights out period for 5 days. Starting I guess 12 days ago

 

[pdiehm]

The tank has been running for 7-8 months now but I did a lights out period for 5 days. Starting I guess 12 days ago

And you may have to do another blackout. You wouldn’t be the first to have to do multiple blackouts. Someone else can chime in but I would think about doing 2 large water changes during the blackout period.

 

[dantimdad]

For now, try limited length photo periods.

I think you will find this will start clearing up soon. Be very stingy with food and keep changing filter socks and wet skimming.

 

[Mike1995]

For now, try limited length photo periods.

I think you will find this will start clearing up soon. Be very stingy with food and keep changing filter socks and wet skimming.

I was thinking of that.. do you think a different light may be better? The one I have now Imo is on way too long. It only has 5-6 hours of complete darkness. I tried a timer but because the light is already programed with some sort of internal timer it doesn't work.
My skimate is like light brown, almost like tea. Is that what I want?

 

[Mike1995]

Also.. both my maroon clowns bite me like they wanna eat my arm off. Or really anything that hits the water. Even jumped at my cat one time. I find it hilarious. Is there any way to make them stop?

 

[leptang]

Im sure the zoa's are just getting use to the light again after the black out. The zoa's use zooxanthellae that are photosynthetic algae that grow in the zoa's skin that feed the zoa, cutting out the light only weaken zooxanthellae. Feeding the zooxanthellae is key for the health of the coral. Zooxanthellae starts to get ejected and or die from the coral at temps above 77f they do well in 75f the best. As they are algae they need light nitrates and phosphates as there main life giving properties, then other stuff like potassium, iron, iodine, silicates and other Trace elements. Water changes help with that.

I dont personally use black outs to solve my problems with the tank. There are side affects doing blackouts. I use mother nature's way. A rain forest doesn't grow in a day from a bare field. Yet give it light seeds and water and fertilizer and all it can need with time it will grow into a forest.

Stable parameters and time are they way to let mother nature's do her thing.

Things to keep consistent
Light at 12 hours on
Temp
Alkalinity
Calcium
Magnesium
Salinity
Nitrates
phosphates
Water changes
Feeding
And find out ways to keep these level to not shift at any point.

 

[leptang]

Also.. both my maroon clowns bite me like they wanna eat my arm off. Or really anything that hits the water. Even jumped at my cat one time. I find it hilarious. Is there any way to make them stop?

No they are like piranhas and will fight to the death, one man enters one man leaves.

 

[NS Mike D]

The tank has been running for 7-8 months now but I did a lights out period for 5 days. Starting I guess 12 days ago

If it's dinos, that won't help. They go dormant and will just come back once the lights go back on. There is only one way to determine if you have dinos.

Fwiw, After 8 months, I was still killing a lot of corals. I am 3.5 years into this and still scour this forum to learn things I can apply.

Cyano is ever present in the water column and no one really knows what causes it to precipitate and mat up other than often it will happen in high nutrients, but it's not limited to that. This is why fighting dino, cyano and other nuisance algae/bacteria takes time.

Newer tanks have a lot less coral than mature tanks. That make for less desired life to compete with algae. If you focus on keeping your water, light and flow desirable for corals, in the long run, they will continue to grow and thus add additional competition for both nutrients and space.

 

[NS Mike D]

Also.. both my maroon clowns bite me like they wanna eat my arm off. Or really anything that hits the water. Even jumped at my cat one time. I find it hilarious. Is there any way to make them stop?

not really, i think there is a thread dedicated to arm attacking clowns

 

[NS Mike D]

corals that did very well early on for me were leathers, such as kenya trees and devils hand. IMO, that went a long way in keeping nuisance stuff at bay. Basic mushrooms too, but they spread like wildfire, cool at first, blues, greens and red , but after a while they were more like weeds, so I don't recommend them.

Leathers are fast growers and can be fragged easily for trading.

 

[Matt Carden]

Patience. Keep doing your water changes. Think of this as a marathon.

You just started to deal with the problems. What we need to do is get into a routine. Every week change X percentage of water. Test, and manually remove the bad stuff. Every 3 days change your socks.

One you get into a routine, and get things more routine oriented’ now we can tackle the other issues one at a time.

If the crab was walking over the zoas they would be ****** and closed.

I know that I will never run a tank that is newly set up with sand again. I think that causes a ton of problems if not cleaned regularly or properly.

Would you add the sand later into the cycle?

 

[NS Mike D]

Would you add the sand later into the cycle?

not to jump onto a question for another member, but I figured this might be a good thread to discuss. I was very intrigued about WWC veiw on sand beds in the new BRS videos. Basically they conclude that a sand bed might be good in the first 8 months, in the long run, they cause more problems than they help.

Since I am still in a battle of my own and siphon off a layer each week, I have seriously started to think about more aggressive siphoning. I was hesitant since I have a mandarin not to mention all those critters that live in the sand, but it's hard to argue with the success world wide coral has had with no sand bed and heavy coral feeding.


so @Mike1995 how's that for another variable to confuse you? Might be worth following.


looking forward to @pdiehm 's response

 

[pdiehm]

Would you add the sand later into the cycle?

I tried sand with my 120, and it just turned into a disaster. As a new reefer, I wasn’t cleaning it right, and I had dino’s Which killed my snails, causing more nutrients into the sand. I had an ongoing cycle of dino’s to cyano to hair algae. Over and over. I couldn’t keep anything alive. I had a hairy mushroom, died within 2 weeks. I had xenia and that died. At that point, I said screw this. I had only a pair of clowns, and I caught them, removed the sand, nuked my pukani with bleach and acid. I said then, I would never have sand in that 120 again. When I pulled it out, it was the nastiest form of brown you could possibly imagine.

I have sand in my biocube which gets blasted with a turkey blaster every night, and that tank is doing just fine.

As for adding sand later, no chance.

 

[Mike1995]

not to jump onto a question for another member, but I figured this might be a good thread to discuss. I was very intrigued about WWC veiw on sand beds in the new BRS videos. Basically they conclude that a sand bed might be good in the first 8 months, in the long run, they cause more problems than they help.

Since I am still in a battle of my own and siphon off a layer each week, I have seriously started to think about more aggressive siphoning. I was hesitant since I have a mandarin not to mention all those critters that live in the sand, but it's hard to argue with the success world wide coral has had with no sand bed and heavy coral feeding.


so @Mike1995 how's that for another variable to confuse you? Might be worth following.


looking forward to @pdiehm 's response

I hate my sand. If I don't stir it up and make my maroons mad while at it, algae just takes over. Would a bare bottom tank be a good option?

 

[leptang]

@Mike1995 there is alot of information out there. With some of my free time i choose to read up on reef chemistry just to get a good understanding of what I need to do in this hobby
Here is a link of lots of good facts.
But this hobby is ever changing as more research is done; https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/randys-reef-chemistry-articles.174821/

 

[Mike1995]

When I first started with my freshwater planted tanks I thought that was a lot to take in.. now that I got into reefing stuff, it feels like a full time job. Every night .I come home at 1130 pm. Stir the sand. Scold a few hermit crabs for doing something mischievous. Sometimes I top off or empty the skimmer cup. Replace carbon.. and then I wake up in the morning worried I forgot something.. I'm just lost. I don't really fully understand how to maintain alk, calcium and magnesium and all that stuff.. is it in the salt? Do I need to put additives in when they're low? I have seachem fusion one and two .I've never used them. Just sitting on a shelf

 

[leptang]

I hate my sand. If I don't stir it up and make my maroons mad while at it, algae just takes over. Would a bare bottom tank be a good option?

In my opinion sand causes problems with alot of things chemistry wise, compounds build up, the sand can turn into a brick. (ive had it happen before) starts looking bad if you don't keep vacuuming it. If its to thick of a layer it can become toxic if it is stirred up.

 

[leptang]

When I first started with my freshwater planted tanks I thought that was a lot to take in.. now that I got into reefing stuff, it feels like a full time job. Every night .I come home at 1130 pm. Stir the sand. Scold a few hermit crabs for doing something mischievous. Sometimes I top off or empty the skimmer cup. Replace carbon.. and then I wake up in the morning worried I forgot something.. I'm just lost. I don't really fully understand how to maintain alk, calcium and magnesium and all that stuff.. is it in the salt? Do I need to put additives in when they're low? I have seachem fusion one and two .I've never used them. Just sitting on a shelf

I use limewater to maintain the calcium and alkalinity. If you mix Mrs. Wages pickling lime which is calcium hydroxide into distilled water or RODI water and use a Auto top off unit that has a float switch to sense the water level in your tank that adds freash water to replace the evaporated water using limewater will add calcium and add hydroxide which then converts into carbonate hardness (alkalinity) by bonding to CO2 in the tank water. It will bring up the pH to much if you add to much at once, so using a slow pump with a ATO (auto top off) is the best way. You got to mix the limewater right you got to test the alkalinity to see if its slowly down up or down over a few days to get the consumption rate right. Magnesium can be added by dosing manually using a additive, but you got to test for it.
https://www.reef2reef.com/blog/the-many-methods-for-supplementing-calcium-and-alkalinity