I want an Apex, but everything is heckin' confusing

[SallyWho]

Good morning, reefers! I'm getting closer (slowly) to getting my first build together, and a used Apex is still on my shopping list. The problem is that I simply cannot keep straight which parts/modules come standard, which don't, which are necessary, and which are extra fun add-ons that I could live without for a while. For example, on an Apex Classic, it looks like the head unit contains a pH/ORP probe port, so why would a PM1 module be necessary? Same with a PM2 module- doesn't the head unit already have a salinity and temperature port? Is a breakout box just an add-on for extra ports and stuff if you have more than one tank, or is it something that should be standard? If I have Ecotech Radions and Maxspect Gyre pumps, I don't need the VDM module, but I do need the WXM for the radions, and some other connecting module if I want to control the gyres via apex? And if I get an Apex Classic, do I need a Reeflink for...something? Even if I already have a wireless router? I can look at each individual description of all the modules on BRS, but as someone who has done all her learning online and has very little hands-on/eyes-on experience, I can't get the big picture in my head. I want to understand, so I don't waste money buying parts I don't need, but I also don't want to find out too late that I'm missing something critical. Such is the fun of buying used equipment- sometimes packages don't include everything you might need.

Just in case it matters (does it?), the plan is for a 120g, with Maxspect Gyres (is there a thingy to control via apex, or does their new advanced controller work better?), Radions (G2s) and T5 retrofit kit for lighting, and Jebao DCT8000 as a return pump. Outside of lights and pumps, I just need the basic Apex functions for now: temperature, pH, salinity, ability to control feed modes, lights, pumps, etc. I have a Tunze Osmolator ATO, which I think controls itself, so I don't think I need any ATO functions on the Apex. So, if someone can help me understand which does what, I can then figure out what I actually NEED. Thanks, and sorry for the long-winded post!

 

[Breadman03]

Good morning, reefers! I'm getting closer (slowly) to getting my first build together, and a used Apex is still on my shopping list. The problem is that I simply cannot keep straight which parts/modules come standard, which don't, which are necessary, and which are extra fun add-ons that I could live without for a while. For example, on an Apex Classic, it looks like the head unit contains a pH/ORP probe port, so why would a PM1 module be necessary? Same with a PM2 module- doesn't the head unit already have a salinity and temperature port?PM1 and 2 are extras, like if you want to monitor a second tank or a calcium reactor. The Apex 2016 is the only model that includes a salinity port. Is a breakout box just an add-on for extra ports and stuff if you have more than one tank, or is it something that should be standard? The breakout box is to monitor switches, such as float switches for an auto-topoff or magnetic door sensors. If I have Ecotech Radions and Maxspect Gyre pumps, I don't need the VDM module, but I do need the WXM for the radions, and some other connecting module if I want to control the gyres via apex? WXM to control the Radions, but I'm not sure about the Maxpect interface. You can plug the Radions into the EB8 if you wish, but they don't need to be. And if I get an Apex Classic, do I need a Reeflink for...something? The Reeflink is Ecotech's way of controlling their equipment. You can either run WXM to control with Apex/Fusion OR run a Reeflink through Ecotech's EcoSmartLive. Note that the WXM can't calibrate Radions or Vortechs, and cannot control the Vectra pumps. Even if I already have a wireless router? Apex should be connected via LAN cable, though people do use wireless gaming adapters. Updates must be wired. I can look at each individual description of all the modules on BRS, but as someone who has done all her learning online and has very little hands-on/eyes-on experience, I can't get the big picture in my head. I want to understand, so I don't waste money buying parts I don't need, but I also don't want to find out too late that I'm missing something critical. Such is the fun of buying used equipment- sometimes packages don't include everything you might need.

Just in case it matters (does it?), the plan is for a 120g, with Maxspect Gyres (is there a thingy to control via apex, or does their new advanced controller work better?), Radions (G2s) and T5 retrofit kit for lighting, and Jebao DCT8000 as a return pump. Outside of lights and pumps, I just need the basic Apex functions for now: temperature, pH, salinity, ability to control feed modes, lights, pumps, etc. I have a Tunze Osmolator ATO, which I think controls itself, so I don't think I need any ATO functions on the Apex. So, if someone can help me understand which does what, I can then figure out what I actually NEED. Thanks, and sorry for the long-winded post!

It sounds like you will want an Apex Classic (head unit, EB8, display, temp and pH probes) plus a PM2 and a salinity probe. Keep in mind that a salinity probe measures conductivity which varies with temperature. For accurate readings, you must use the temp port built into the PM2 and enable temperature compensation. The probe also takes a little while to settle in. I suggest setting it up, but not calibrating it for a couple weeks. Note that they are touchy and very sensitive to electrical interference and tiny bubbles can throw it off. That doesn't make it bad, but just means that you'll probably need to adjust wire routing and make sure the probe is in a location free of micro bubbles.

 

[SallyWho]

It sounds like you will want an Apex Classic (head unit, EB8, display, temp and pH probes) plus a PM2 and a salinity probe. Keep in mind that a salinity probe measures conductivity which varies with temperature. For accurate readings, you must use the temp port built into the PM2 and enable temperature compensation. The probe also takes a little while to settle in. I suggest setting it up, but not calibrating it for a couple weeks. Note that they are touchy and very sensitive to electrical interference and tiny bubbles can throw it off. That doesn't make it bad, but just means that you'll probably need to adjust wire routing and make sure the probe is in a location free of micro bubbles.

So while the Apex head unit has a port for salinity monitoring, I'll need a PM2 module to connect the actual salinity probe to the Apex? I appreciate your input a lot!

 

[Breadman03]

So while the Apex head unit has a port for salinity monitoring, I'll need a PM2 module to connect the actual salinity probe to the Apex? I appreciate your input a lot!

You would need a PM2 if you get the Apex Classic because the Apex Classic doesn't have a salinity port.

The Apex 2016 does have a built in port and includes the probes for it. Note that the 2016 uses the EB832, but can control the older EB8, and has built in WiFi capability, though wired connections are preferred.

 

[Andrewalex11]

If I were you I would keep my Radions running separately

 

[SallyWho]

If I were you I would keep my Radions running separately

Any particular reason why? Do you find them difficult to program via Apex Fusion?

 

[Waters]

I agree.....I run my Radions with Ecosmartlive rather than the Apex. I like the layout much better.

 

[CindyKz]

I just researched and bought an Apex in November (welll.....hubs bought it as a Christmas gift ) Anyway I can completely relate to your confusion. It IS dang confusing LOL.

I bought an Apex 2016, but if you're looking for a used Classic I would begin with just the basic setup plus the PM2 module for salinity. You can always buy additional modules and expand later - ie adding on your Radions. I love my Apex and I'm having a great time learning how to use it to my advantage, but it has been a time consuming learning curve. Expanding as you learn isn't a bad idea. Also, once you have it in front of you and you begin to set it up it will make more sense.

BRS TV has done a few videos, I strongly suggest you watch them before you buy. These will also help you put the pieces together in your mind and decide what you want. Do you know a local reefer who will let you look at thier setup? I went to a friends house and he walked me through his Apex. He has multiple tanks (like 10 or something) with everything controlled including Radions so it was much more complex than mine, but it was still helpful to physically see how it all goes together.

 

[SallyWho]

I agree.....I run my Radions with Ecosmartlive rather than the Apex. I like the layout much better.

How do I open an Ecosmart Live account? I have two used Gen 2 radions- do I just find the website, enter the serial numbers, and open an account?

Do you know a local reefer who will let you look at thier setup?

Sadly, there doesn't seem to be a very bustling reefing community around here. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of reefers, but apparently they're not terribly active on Facebook (where I do a lot of my networking). Or, if they are, it's in a group I'm not aware of. Short answer: I have no idea how to contact a local reefer. My LFS doesn't use controllers, either, so I can't just ask her. As a matter of fact, she's not familiar with bean animal setups, either, which I'll be using, so I'm going to have to mock up my plumbing and post it on here for review before I glue anything!

Thanks for your input, guys!

 

[Waters]

How do I open an Ecosmart Live account? I have two used Gen 2 radions- do I just find the website, enter the serial numbers, and open an account?

Sadly, there doesn't seem to be a very bustling reefing community around here. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of reefers, but apparently they're not terribly active on Facebook (where I do a lot of my networking). Or, if they are, it's in a group I'm not aware of. Short answer: I have no idea how to contact a local reefer. My LFS doesn't use controllers, either, so I can't just ask her. As a matter of fact, she's not familiar with bean animal setups, either, which I'll be using, so I'm going to have to mock up my plumbing and post it on here for review before I glue anything!

Thanks for your input, guys!

I haven't done it in a while, but I believe you just go to the site and click on register and fill in all of the required information. You will need a reeflink to control the lights via WiFi, otherwise you will have to plug in using a usb cable. The site is www.ecosmartlive.com

 

[Andrewalex11]

It's really simple to program Radions, people just make it seem intimidating because they have to download something and use a computer to make a light schedule. I promise you that it's not that scary.

Any my reasoning behind using the Software built specifically for the Radions and EcoTech equiptment instead of An Apex is simple:

1.) Do you really mess with your lights so much that you need anything more than programming them once with a good schedule and just letting them do their thing?

2.) Aside from the fact that I've heard rumors of Radions not acting properly when using an Apex to control them. As you can imagine EcoTech put forth a lot of effort to build the platform to run these lights properly according to the many millions of transistors that make up the device so; it's in the best interest for longevity and proper functionality of the device to use the software it was intended to be used with.

Of course this is just the way I feel and see it. Neptune Systems are doing amazing things and work great with many different devices, but when it comes to a light that costs about $800 out of the box for a single unit I'm not going to start loading third party software onto it.

 

[Sleepydoc]

You have seen this chart, right? I found it a bit confusing at first, as I got into it things started to make more sense.

The thing I've noticed since getting a controller is that you tend to succumb to feature-creep - after you have one, you start to think of other things you can do with it! What I would recommend you do first is write down your goals for a controller, both immediate and long term. Then you can start to figure out what you need.

As far as the modules go, I don't have any Ecotech products, but here is my understanding:

• The VDM has 4 variable 0-10V outputs (2 plugs with 2 outputs each) and a serial outlet that can be used with some 'Apex ready' lights that use a serial interface. Both the Apex Classic and Apex 2016 already have 4 0-10V outputs, so unless you need more than 4 variable outputs, you probably won't need a VDM module.
• The WXM Module allows you to wirelessly control Ecotech products such as (wireless) vortech pumps and Radions. As others have mentioned, you can control the Radions through Ecosmartlive.
• Breakout box - this is simply a box to connect switches to the I/O port of the Apex. The I/O port is used for all 'digital' inputs (simple switches that are either open or closed,) thinks like a float switch or a toggle switch. You can actually make your own, too; there's no electronics per se, it's just connections. Avast marine also sells a nice one.
• PM2 module - adds a conductivity/salinity probe, another temp probe and another I/O port with 6 digital inputs. Both Apex Classic and 2016 have one I/O port, so unless you need more than 6 inputs, you shouldn't need the module for that. If you want to do salinity monitoring with the Apex Classic, you will need this module plus a salinity probe. The temp probe can be used to monitor temp in a second location if you want.

I don't know what used Apex Classics are going for, but look at what you want to do and consider an Apex 2016 model. The main differences/advantages are:

• Built in wifi
• EB832 - allows individual outlet power/current monitoring and also includes 2 controllable DC24 outlets and 3 1Link outlets. I have some LED strip lights in my sump as well as some fans wired to the DC24 outlets so I've been able to avoid using 120V outlets for these
• Can do over-the-air firmware updates
• Will support the Trident (if this is an issue for you)
• Includes the Salinity port and probe as well as an ORP probe.

Regardless, keep asking questions here or on the Neptune support forum. There are plenty of people who can help you out so you know what you need before you buy.

 

[SallyWho]

Now THAT is an uber helpful chart! Thanks,@Sleepydoc!

 

[mitch91175]

This is what I would get if I were you and not look back:

2016 Apex - You get all probes in the head and you get a host of other advantages that you do not have with the classic
CoralVue IceCap Gyre Interface - Can control the pumps better with it. The Maxspect controller is nice, but no wifi access (http://www.coralvue.com/icecap-gyre-interface-module-1592)
Apex WXM module - control your Radions

With the above items and a supplemental electrical strip (for plugging in stuff that doesn't require Apex power control, i.e. your Radions, Gyre pumps) will save you outlets on the EB832 (unless you just want to know how much juice they are using). The EB832 can measure watts/amps/voltage and give you an idea if a component is going bad on you. Heaters are good to have in the EB832.

Something that I also did was put these little outlets to control power to things that I have plugged into my electrical strip: Smart Outlets. Love them I use them with my saltwater mixing station, phyto station, honestly anywhere I feel the need. You can program them just like you could with the Apex (just using a different app on your phone). For instance, I set a scene up for my phyto station that controls all the light based on 1 of the lights. Also have my RODI station cycling the water for 5 minutes every hour. You could also get an extra EB832 as well instead of the eletrical strip.