I want to switch to metal halides. 300 gallon tank help

[piranhaman00]

All the big brand leds will do what you want. The only i would avoid is the ecotech x15/xr30 g5 blue. Because it has no whites. The new kessil A500 was designed to be the MH of leds look it up. Its a very powerful led and kessil is known for there shimmer. But look up the kessil A500.

Yes get this if you want lots of shadows with their spotlights.

 

[Miami Reef]

Hey guys!

I already run a chiller.

I think I’m sold on the Halides...but am I able to select 14K halides? Is that a thing? That’s my favorite spectrum.

 

[Miami Reef]

The misinformation in here is crazy! You'd think some users were secretly one of the LED manufacturers.

A watt is a watt. LEDs aren't magical in this area. PAR per watt barely favors LEDs but that's only if you don't account for spectrum. LEDs don't sniff the the same spectrum as halides or even T5s. The smoothing used by these companies is borderline criminal. Sadly I've seen some halide and T5 companies start this deceitful practice as well. There is no need for it either. Just post your spectral plots and let them speak for themselves. Of course, LEDs would take a major hit here.

Heat is one of the biggest lies we've ever been fed about halides. Reef Brite's new stuff is warm to the touch. I can leave my hand on my reflector indefinitely and won't get burned. My tank hasn't gone up in temp and neither has the room the tank is in. I monitor all of this 24/7. According to the LED companies, my temperature should have sky rocketed going from 180w of LEDs to 500w of halides and 100w of T5s.

My corals took time to adjust. It's been a slow process but they have never looked better. I'd almost forgotten the amazing growth SPS could have under proper lighting. So no, you won't kill everything switching. You could if done wrong but that goes for everything in this hobby.

What the OP wants is 3 250w Reef Brite pendants and ballasts. Run some Hamilton 20k bulbs and you're set. I prefer single end

What is a pendant and what is a ballast?

 

[rtparty]

People really want their expensive LEDs to be the best ever!

They are the best ever...right until the new one comes out

 

[rtparty]

What is a pendant and what is a ballast?

A pendant is the reflector from Reef Brite. It houses the bulb. The ballast is what fires the bulb. I like the Reef Brite electronic ballast myself. It has a 0-10v input if you want to dim the halides for some reason. They also run super cool.

Hey guys!

I already run a chiller.

I think I’m sold on the Halides...but am I able to select 14K halides? Is that a thing? That’s my favorite spectrum.

Yes, you can get 14k. 14k from halides is different than 14k in LEDs though so be prepared. Many LEDs can't actually hit the old 10k, 12k or 14k colors. They say they can but I have never seen it and I have used almost every big LED out there from Kessil to AI to Ecotech and in between.

I went back to 14k halides when I sold off my Radions and found them a little too yellow/white with no added supplements so I switched to 20k Hamilton bulbs. It replicates the Radiums but made for electronic ballasts. Fantastic bulb!

 

[neonreef3d]

A pendant is the reflector from Reef Brite. It houses the bulb. The ballast is what fires the bulb. I like the Reef Brite electronic ballast myself. It has a 0-10v input if you want to dim the halides for some reason. They also run super cool.

Yes, you can get 14k. 14k from halides is different than 14k in LEDs though so be prepared. Many LEDs can't actually hit the old 10k, 12k or 14k colors. They say they can but I have never seen it and I have used almost every big LED out there from Kessil to AI to Ecotech and in between.

I went back to 14k halides when I sold off my Radions and found them a little too yellow/white with no added supplements so I switched to 20k Hamilton bulbs. It replicates the Radiums but made for electronic ballasts. Fantastic bulb!

what is the main difference you see between the radions and the halide bulbs? were they the G5 model>?

what corals are you displaying in your tank> SPS? LPS? MIXED?

 

[rgulrich]

Metal halides can be a good option. As my 300 had some rather special requirements and I went through a six X 250W setup until it became a bit overwhelming as far as temperature of the reef and room. I ended up with a slightly "different" LED approach myself. As the reef runs diagonally from the "left rear" to the "right front", I needed even illumination across the entire surface - a center mounted three bulb configuration provided too much shadowing. The six bulb was much better, but went over the top as far as power consumption and heat generation goes. I'd say the power consumption is roughly the same, though with substantially higher and more evenly distributed PAR at this point:

Yep, this LED array is more expensive than my 6 X250W halide setup from seven years ago. A lot cooler, a lot less chiller and air conditioner running time was the tradeoff. If someone would like to discuss heat differential between halides and LEDs, I've left enough fingerprints (permanently) on the surface of a few halides to have a very well-informed discussion on the topic. I've also a few friends in S. AZ that have some great "tats" on their forearms from working in their reefs with the lights still on.

Now folks, just because you didn't figure out how to make a given light setup work to suit your needs, there's really no need to "diss" folks that are perfectly happy with their choice of approach. In the late 70's we used regular fluorescent tubes, and they served their purpose just fine. Just take some time to figure things out to suit your particular situation and I'm sure that you can find a happy medium somewhere with the possible solutions on hand.
If you'd like to get into the physics of light and such I'd be happy to participate. Even the research papers on the topic (yeh, I'm one of those guys...;Nailbiting). At any rate, sometimes they say a picture is worth a thousand words so I'll shut up now.
As far as "can LEDs grow coral" that is routinely thrown around, well...
26April2020

29April2021

If you'd like some closeups just ask.

And I think the appearance and color rendition has worked out rather well for me. Perhaps you would have other preferences.
17May2021


Cheers,
Ray

 

[Smite]

Metal halides can be a good option. As my 300 had some rather special requirements and I went through a six X 250W setup until it became a bit overwhelming as far as temperature of the reef and room. I ended up with a slightly "different" LED approach myself. As the reef runs diagonally from the "left rear" to the "right front", I needed even illumination across the entire surface - a center mounted three bulb configuration provided too much shadowing. The six bulb was much better, but went over the top as far as power consumption and heat generation goes. I'd say the power consumption is roughly the same, though with substantially higher and more evenly distributed PAR at this point:

Yep, this LED array is more expensive than my 6 X250W halide setup from seven years ago. A lot cooler, a lot less chiller and air conditioner running time was the tradeoff. If someone would like to discuss heat differential between halides and LEDs, I've left enough fingerprints (permanently) on the surface of a few halides to have a very well-informed discussion on the topic. I've also a few friends in S. AZ that have some great "tats" on their forearms from working in their reefs with the lights still on.

Now folks, just because you didn't figure out how to make a given light setup work to suit your needs, there's really no need to "diss" folks that are perfectly happy with their choice of approach. In the late 70's we used regular fluorescent tubes, and they served their purpose just fine. Just take some time to figure things out to suit your particular situation and I'm sure that you can find a happy medium somewhere with the possible solutions on hand.
If you'd like to get into the physics of light and such I'd be happy to participate. Even the research papers on the topic (yeh, I'm one of those guys...;Nailbiting). At any rate, sometimes they say a picture is worth a thousand words so I'll shut up now.
As far as "can LEDs grow coral" that is routinely thrown around, well...
26April2020

29April2021

If you'd like some closeups just ask.

And I think the appearance and color rendition has worked out rather well for me. Perhaps you would have other preferences.
17May2021


Cheers,
Ray

Gorgeous tank Ray and great growth. That is a lot of LEDS, about double, to what you ran with halides x 250w. Your graph is showing 866w and I'm curious if those individual wattages are multiple fixtures per apex outlet? I'm counting 12 LEDs and am interested in how their consumption is being broken down there? Like 3 kessis = 200-210w?

 

[A. grandis]

Metal halides can be a good option. As my 300 had some rather special requirements and I went through a six X 250W setup until it became a bit overwhelming as far as temperature of the reef and room. I ended up with a slightly "different" LED approach myself. As the reef runs diagonally from the "left rear" to the "right front", I needed even illumination across the entire surface - a center mounted three bulb configuration provided too much shadowing. The six bulb was much better, but went over the top as far as power consumption and heat generation goes. I'd say the power consumption is roughly the same, though with substantially higher and more evenly distributed PAR at this point:

Yep, this LED array is more expensive than my 6 X250W halide setup from seven years ago. A lot cooler, a lot less chiller and air conditioner running time was the tradeoff. If someone would like to discuss heat differential between halides and LEDs, I've left enough fingerprints (permanently) on the surface of a few halides to have a very well-informed discussion on the topic. I've also a few friends in S. AZ that have some great "tats" on their forearms from working in their reefs with the lights still on.

Now folks, just because you didn't figure out how to make a given light setup work to suit your needs, there's really no need to "diss" folks that are perfectly happy with their choice of approach. In the late 70's we used regular fluorescent tubes, and they served their purpose just fine. Just take some time to figure things out to suit your particular situation and I'm sure that you can find a happy medium somewhere with the possible solutions on hand.
If you'd like to get into the physics of light and such I'd be happy to participate. Even the research papers on the topic (yeh, I'm one of those guys...;Nailbiting). At any rate, sometimes they say a picture is worth a thousand words so I'll shut up now.
As far as "can LEDs grow coral" that is routinely thrown around, well...
26April2020

29April2021

If you'd like some closeups just ask.

And I think the appearance and color rendition has worked out rather well for me. Perhaps you would have other preferences.
17May2021


Cheers,
Ray

Nice Ray! Your approach is the correct way to use LEDs, not what manufacturers send in the pachage with their fixtures. I would love to see some references with scientific docs you have to show us as well as your personal opinion/observations on the physics of lighting, showing the differences between metal halides and LEDs. In my point of view they are very different in spectrum (not what graphics from manufacturers normally show) and distribution/delivery, as Tullio Dell Aquilla has always put.
Application has everything to do with choosing the light over a reef tank. if priority is aesthetics and the environment around doesn't allow heat dissipation, something needs to be done. In your case you chose to go with many LEDs.
What you have in mind to start with, please?
What are the differences of the results you would like to point between halides and LEDs? One of most noticeable is colony formation. LEDs tend to "deform" the colonies. The way you have your LEDs there you are trying to reproduce the effects of T5s. Still the T5s have a different spectrum signature. Do you agree with that? We know the results between LEDs and T5s are also very noticeble in most applications. It's going to be a pleasure to learn more from you. Thanks!

 

[zalick]

Metal halides can be a good option. As my 300 had some rather special requirements and I went through a six X 250W setup until it became a bit overwhelming as far as temperature of the reef and room. I ended up with a slightly "different" LED approach myself. As the reef runs diagonally from the "left rear" to the "right front", I needed even illumination across the entire surface - a center mounted three bulb configuration provided too much shadowing. The six bulb was much better, but went over the top as far as power consumption and heat generation goes. I'd say the power consumption is roughly the same, though with substantially higher and more evenly distributed PAR at this point:

Yep, this LED array is more expensive than my 6 X250W halide setup from seven years ago. A lot cooler, a lot less chiller and air conditioner running time was the tradeoff. If someone would like to discuss heat differential between halides and LEDs, I've left enough fingerprints (permanently) on the surface of a few halides to have a very well-informed discussion on the topic. I've also a few friends in S. AZ that have some great "tats" on their forearms from working in their reefs with the lights still on.

Now folks, just because you didn't figure out how to make a given light setup work to suit your needs, there's really no need to "diss" folks that are perfectly happy with their choice of approach. In the late 70's we used regular fluorescent tubes, and they served their purpose just fine. Just take some time to figure things out to suit your particular situation and I'm sure that you can find a happy medium somewhere with the possible solutions on hand.
If you'd like to get into the physics of light and such I'd be happy to participate. Even the research papers on the topic (yeh, I'm one of those guys...;Nailbiting). At any rate, sometimes they say a picture is worth a thousand words so I'll shut up now.
As far as "can LEDs grow coral" that is routinely thrown around, well...
26April2020

29April2021

If you'd like some closeups just ask.

And I think the appearance and color rendition has worked out rather well for me. Perhaps you would have other preferences.
17May2021


Cheers,
Ray

Beautiful tank! Not many people have experience with both halides and LEDs. What LEDs are you running there? Are those 6 vipars and the 3 kessils?

I was running 6 kessil. I added 3 mitras LX7. Then moved the kessils to a frag tank and have 2 -250w halides with the 3 mitras over my 300. Kind of the best of both worlds.

 

[rgulrich]

@zalick

Are those 6 vipars and the 3 kessils?

Thank you very much for the compliment. If I was allowed, I'd spend hours a day with my nose pressed up against the glass (as my other half would attest, especially when it's time to mow the pasture...). When I lived in Greece I spent as much time as possible face down in the Med with a mask and snorkel, holding endless arguments with blennies and playing hide and seek with octopus. The object for me with this reef is to replicate the "face down with a mask" as much as I could in my living room.
I'm currently running two X 165W and four X 300W ViparSpectra and six X A360WE Kessil. What you see reflected in the above is CH01 & CH03 of ViparSpectra = 1 X 165W and 1 X 300W fixture, and CH02 is 2 X 300W fixtures. I'm running the Vipars at about 65% "blue channel" and 50% "white channel". The Kessils I have set at full power at the white end of the spectrum (which is just the white end added to the full blue - their algorithm is really quite good for maintaining PUR).

As A. grandis above alluded to from some of our previous dicussions, I use the ViparSpectra to provide a baseline light level across the reef, and they provide a diffuse, even light much like T5s. I've removed their 90' lenses and added a diffusion lens to smooth out the various spectra, much like many major LED fixture manufacturers are doing now. I use this baseline of about 250 PAR at the rubble level/300-350 at the reef crest to encourage solid growth for about 6-1/2 hours a day. In the middle of the day I replicate "high noon" by switching on the Kessils. This brings the PAR at the reef crest to about 450-500 PAR, and 300-350 at the rubble. The few LPS I have in the reef are overgrown (partially shaded) by Acropora at this point, and they seem pretty happy. The Tridacnids I have on the rubble are growing and seemingly comfortable. "High Noon" is frankly my most enjoyable viewing time, with the glitter lines as shown in the video. I wish I was better with a cell phone camera...but I'm learning;Shamefullyembarrased.

You've struck upon the key to lighting when you say "the best of both worlds" - much like pretty much everything else we do in this hobby (and all of our other pursuits). We find something that's close to what we're looking for, and then find something else to "tweak" it to where we want (or "envision") it to be.

Nothing good ever comes quickly in the hobbies we enjoy, I guess.
Cheers,
Ray

 

[rgulrich]

I'm counting 12 LEDs and am interested in how their consumption is being broken down there? Like 3 kessis = 200-210w?

@Smite - The Kessils and Vipars are set up as I noted above, multiple fixtures across the outlets with CH01 & CH03 of ViparSpectra = 1 X 165W and 1 X 300W fixtures, and CH02 is 2 X 300W fixtures, running at 65% "blue channel" and 50% "white channel". The Kessils I've broken up into two channels, basically a "front row" and a "back row" and they are controlled as Kessil CH01 & CH02.
As you look at the Apex readout above, I'd wager the differences in reflected wattages are the differences in the sensing technology in the Apex system added to the differences in the consumption technology of the arrays. So the total power consumption is nominally 7 amps, with the ViparSpectra pulling around 3.7 amps and the Kessils around 3.7 amps.

Cheers,
Ray

 

[rgulrich]

@A. grandis - Hope you're doing well; how's your reef? (both the one inside and the big one outside...I'm still jealous)
Photons are photons. Can't change that part of physics (other parts are shifting, but that's a much larger conversation).
Let me know if you're interested in some of the research papers I've alluded to, I'll have to dig them up, but I've got a few on hand. Okay, more than a few...
I can put to rest the idea that LEDs deform coral. Define deform. All coral we keep in aquaria are different from their wild counterparts shortly after they arrive in our care. For that matter, they are different in shape, color, and growth rates depending on the depth of collection as well. That's one of the reasons the current taxonomy is changing to a DNA-based approach, although I imagine we're all going to be using the "it looks like it's a..." for the foreseeable future. LEDs don't deform coral any more than any other artificial light source, and they all need to be used properly.
Cheers,
Ray

 

[A. grandis]

@A. grandis - Hope you're doing well; how's your reef? (both the one inside and the big one outside...I'm still jealous)
Photons are photons. Can't change that part of physics (other parts are shifting, but that's a much larger conversation).
Let me know if you're interested in some of the research papers I've alluded to, I'll have to dig them up, but I've got a few on hand. Okay, more than a few...
I can put to rest the idea that LEDs deform coral. Define deform. All coral we keep in aquaria are different from their wild counterparts shortly after they arrive in our care. For that matter, they are different in shape, color, and growth rates depending on the depth of collection as well. That's one of the reasons the current taxonomy is changing to a DNA-based approach, although I imagine we're all going to be using the "it looks like it's a..." for the foreseeable future. LEDs don't deform coral any more than any other artificial light source, and they all need to be used properly.
Cheers,
Ray

Doing well, Ray... hope you're also doing great!
Yes, it's great to be able to enjoy the natural reef here. That's for sure!
My observations, in the majority of the tanks under LEDs, show the corals grow weird in comparison to halides and T5s. In my case, with zoanthids, they stated to grow really fast and then got the point of a more normal growth rate, but their structure was tremendously ugly and deformed. So I didn't notice only with hard corals, but also with soft corals, not only in my systems, but others too. Acropora corals are well known to show those effects. I know water motion and other things will also produce very similar effect, but other reefers have told me they noticed their corals deformed only after they placed them under LEDs too.
To define "deformed": different colonial structure from what we normally would expect when under halides and specially T5s. They grow side ways and not proportional. T5s IMO is the best light to produce uniform growth and tissue/color distribution in any case.
Would be great to see some close ups of your corals.
The best tanks under LEDs are those having diodes covering most of the surface area. The same is true to T5s and also using halides, with the proper fixture/wattage. i still see spectrum as one, if not the most important aspect of reef lighting. The spectrum from metal halides is indeed more complete and therefore superior to LEDs. What have you found in that regard?
Yes, would you please... when you have so time, post some of the papers of what you wre talking about. It's always great to learn. Thanks very much!

 

[rtparty]

what is the main difference you see between the radions and the halide bulbs? were they the G5 model>?

what corals are you displaying in your tank> SPS? LPS? MIXED?

The halides put off a "warmer" look and I don't mean the kelvin. The tank just comes to life. Very hard to explain in text or even pictures. Cracks and crevices that never received light before, now get an abundance of light. The light just seems to wrap around the corals in a more uniform pattern. Likely because of the delivery that Grandis has talked about. The metal halide reflector shoots light out at all angles. LEDs just don't do this. At least not when used per the recommendations of the various manufacturers.

From day one the seling points of LEDs were:

- Less power. This has been proven fasle many times over
- No bulb changes. True. Just entire panel replacements about every 5 years.
- Less heat. Some true, some false. Reef Brite's newer halides run considerably cooler than old halides. The glass on my pendants will burn you if not careful but so will LEDs. I know this too well as my Radions got hot when running at 100%. The new ATI Stratons reach upwards of 43C if memory serves. That is still a lot of heat being generated. That heat is just entering your room instead of the tank directly. But a warmer room will still heat up the tank or have your AC running more. In my 66F basement, I welcome any and all heat from my lights. Some can't afford this luxury. So pick your poison. For anyone doubting my claim about LEDs getting hot, go set your LEDs on your carpet, crank them up and wait about 30 seconds. Be ready for the melted carpet and possible fire though.

Kind of rambling here so let me be quicker...I ran 2 XR15 G5 Pros over my 120G (4x2x2) tank. At 100% I couldn't keep SPS on the top of my rocks. At least not keep them growing and thriving. I only got about 140 PAR. This was consistent for both lights so one wasn't bad. So my choice was 2 more XR15s at $840 plus mounting and diffusers. So almost $1000? Or sell my Radions for $750 and get halides for less than $900 all in (meaning I spent $150 out of pocket.) All this was part of my bigger plan to upgrade to a 72x36x22" peninsula. Easily $4800 in Radions to cover the tank because LED companies lie about coverage. 3 halides and a couple LED bars is less than $2000 and full coverage from corner to corner. For that $2800, I can replace a boat load of lamps.

Ray above, who has a gorgeous tank and uses LEDs properly, has it right. You truly need double the fixtures they claim to keep sticks. For LPS, you can tone this down to 1.5x the recommended amount. My 120 was 100% LPS for the first year. So the 2 Radions were fine. Things grew well and colors were great. I was going to see some shadowing issues soon enough though. Adding a third Radion would have been tough with the center brace. I used T5s instead to provide the fill light.

My tank is migrating towards sticks pretty heavily at this point. I have always been a stick head but I still love hammers, frogspawns, torches, micro lords, a variety of brains, etc...so the new tank will be a true mix and I now have lighting that will never be a reason for my problems. Except maybe a little too much light for some LPS. They acclimate extremely well though.

That was a novel. I apologize. Thanks for whoever made it this far...

 

[rgulrich]

@A. grandis - Here's a couple stick pics...I've gotta call it a night soon so I can plug back into the Matrix in the early am. I'll put together a reading list with urls of some good background info I've collected the past few years as well as few newer papers that have just been published and I haven't picked up yet. I haven't seen any of the deformities you've mentioned, but perhaps I've been lucky all these years. Can you PM/send me links to some of the deformities mentioned, or have they been anecdotal? Thanks in advance. I do have some tabling acros, though, if I can find any pics while I rummage through the files.

Here's a Bali Green Slimer (Acropora yongei)
26April2020

07April2021

Tri-color Valida (Acropora valida; grew out flat in my T5-illuminated frag system downstairs)
24January2020

07April2021

Acropora formosa (I believe)
26April2020

21December2020 (while it was still largely visible)

17March2021 (side view, just to the left of the Bali slimer)

U/I acropora (club member traded for a book I had read - they wanted to complete their set)
26April2020

31December2020

U/I Acropora (closeup detail of underside of coral...I'm fascinated by this view, and have a handful of shots like this)
27January2021

Apologies to the OP if this has wandered a bit too far astray. I'm just from the school of "pretty much anything works, depending on what your goals are" and I try not to apply quick fixes.
Cheers,
Ray

 

[A. grandis]

@A. grandis - Here's a couple stick pics...I've gotta call it a night soon so I can plug back into the Matrix in the early am. I'll put together a reading list with urls of some good background info I've collected the past few years as well as few newer papers that have just been published and I haven't picked up yet. I haven't seen any of the deformities you've mentioned, but perhaps I've been lucky all these years. Can you PM/send me links to some of the deformities mentioned, or have they been anecdotal? Thanks in advance. I do have some tabling acros, though, if I can find any pics while I rummage through the files.

Here's a Bali Green Slimer (Acropora yongei)
26April2020

07April2021

Tri-color Valida (Acropora valida; grew out flat in my T5-illuminated frag system downstairs)
24January2020

07April2021

Acropora formosa (I believe)
26April2020

21December2020 (while it was still largely visible)

17March2021 (side view, just to the left of the Bali slimer)

U/I acropora (club member traded for a book I had read - they wanted to complete their set)
26April2020

31December2020

U/I Acropora (closeup detail of underside of coral...I'm fascinated by this view, and have a handful of shots like this)
27January2021

Apologies to the OP if this has wandered a bit too far astray. I'm just from the school of "pretty much anything works, depending on what your goals are" and I try not to apply quick fixes.
Cheers,
Ray

One of the best examples we can show using LEDs covering most of the surface area of the tank. The colonies' formation are great. I love those Acros! Please post more pictures of the colonies, including the closeup detailed shots. There is a nice balance and stability in that system. That's for sure! Would be great if every LED user would invest in the right amount of LED fixtures to reproduce what yo have there! Great example!
What is the temperature rage you keep?
pH?
Ca, DKH?

Unfortunately I have no pictures of my colonies with the deformed formation to show. That was in my old 125gal system, sold long ago. I do have pictures of my 75gal. system under 6 bulb ATI T5-only Powermodule:

And the same tank under 2 X 250W 20K halides/ 4 X 54W ATI Blue Plus:

Unfortunately local zoanthids is all we are allowed to keep here as you may remember.
Thanks so much!

 

[MartinM]

You will be creating a lot of heat with halides, if in a canopy you will need to remove the heat and will need a chiller

IME LEDs are just as hot, they just typically have fans and dissipate it as it’s produced. If you get a quality fixture like Giesemann, it acts as a heat sink and never gets hot enough to burn you.

 

[A. grandis]

Yes, if you need a chiller you will need a chiller no matter what!
I had to use the chiller with all types of lights I've used here.
Bottom line is that Halides have the real full spectrum from real UV to IR and that is what the corals will really need to develop at their very best.

 

[Reyco77]

The halides put off a "warmer" look and I don't mean the kelvin. The tank just comes to life. Very hard to explain in text or even pictures. Cracks and crevices that never received light before, now get an abundance of light. The light just seems to wrap around the corals in a more uniform pattern. Likely because of the delivery that Grandis has talked about. The metal halide reflector shoots light out at all angles. LEDs just don't do this. At least not when used per the recommendations of the various manufacturers.

From day one the seling points of LEDs were:

- Less power. This has been proven fasle many times over
- No bulb changes. True. Just entire panel replacements about every 5 years.
- Less heat. Some true, some false. Reef Brite's newer halides run considerably cooler than old halides. The glass on my pendants will burn you if not careful but so will LEDs. I know this too well as my Radions got hot when running at 100%. The new ATI Stratons reach upwards of 43C if memory serves. That is still a lot of heat being generated. That heat is just entering your room instead of the tank directly. But a warmer room will still heat up the tank or have your AC running more. In my 66F basement, I welcome any and all heat from my lights. Some can't afford this luxury. So pick your poison. For anyone doubting my claim about LEDs getting hot, go set your LEDs on your carpet, crank them up and wait about 30 seconds. Be ready for the melted carpet and possible fire though.

Kind of rambling here so let me be quicker...I ran 2 XR15 G5 Pros over my 120G (4x2x2) tank. At 100% I couldn't keep SPS on the top of my rocks. At least not keep them growing and thriving. I only got about 140 PAR. This was consistent for both lights so one wasn't bad. So my choice was 2 more XR15s at $840 plus mounting and diffusers. So almost $1000? Or sell my Radions for $750 and get halides for less than $900 all in (meaning I spent $150 out of pocket.) All this was part of my bigger plan to upgrade to a 72x36x22" peninsula. Easily $4800 in Radions to cover the tank because LED companies lie about coverage. 3 halides and a couple LED bars is less than $2000 and full coverage from corner to corner. For that $2800, I can replace a boat load of lamps.

Ray above, who has a gorgeous tank and uses LEDs properly, has it right. You truly need double the fixtures they claim to keep sticks. For LPS, you can tone this down to 1.5x the recommended amount. My 120 was 100% LPS for the first year. So the 2 Radions were fine. Things grew well and colors were great. I was going to see some shadowing issues soon enough though. Adding a third Radion would have been tough with the center brace. I used T5s instead to provide the fill light.

My tank is migrating towards sticks pretty heavily at this point. I have always been a stick head but I still love hammers, frogspawns, torches, micro lords, a variety of brains, etc...so the new tank will be a true mix and I now have lighting that will never be a reason for my problems. Except maybe a little too much light for some LPS. They acclimate extremely well though.

That was a novel. I apologize. Thanks for whoever made it this far...

Kessil, radions, orphek, etc... Chinesse parts in a cute case with a router... I know they work... But what kinda crack did their merchandising team smoke when putting prices? If i got an 60 cms aquarium wide i need a fancy kessil and a led bar. Unveliebable. Im planning a new big tank. Looking and studying for lighting... Good ones. With good prize. Reliables. So, i decided the best are gonna be 2x250w 20k metal halides and t5. I know ill wont regret it.