Ice Cap 3K Gyre Poisoning my tank?!?!

Discussion in 'General Equipment, Hardware, Filtration' started by MarsRover, Dec 27, 2017.

  1. MarsRover

    MarsRover Well-Known Member R2R Supporter SCMAS Member Build Thread Contributor

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    Hey folks,

    I posted this in my build thread but i'd like to start a dedicated discussion about what i just found and what i have been experiencing and see if others too have had similar/different experiences with this product...

    I bought the IceCap 3K Gyre Generation pump with controller (3000 GPH) months ago and have generally been pleased with its function as a gyre....but after I put it in, I started to some short time after noticing I had heavy metal issues in my tank. (https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/3k-gyre-generation-powerhead-icecap.html)

    All the other products i have in my tank are generally top of the line
    Return pump: Vectra L1
    Skimmer: Reef Octopus Elite 220 Int
    Heater: Finnex TH deluxe 800 watt Titanium heater

    After much detective work, I noticed the tank-side magnets on this product are un-incapsulated!

    So basically putting this in your marine tank means you are plunking just two large magnets into your tank....

    I know i have seen others with heavy metal issues have recommended to them to check very carefully everywhere in the tank for any forgotten about metal utensils, staples, or screws that could have fallen in and been forgotten about.....

    Could this been my heavy metals culprit?!?

    Anyone else experience these issues with this product???? pretty bummed....

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    Last edited: Dec 28, 2017
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  2. Mark Gray

    Mark Gray Valuable Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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  3. ReeferMadness80G

    ReeferMadness80G Valuable Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

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  4. MarsRover

    MarsRover Well-Known Member R2R Supporter SCMAS Member Build Thread Contributor

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    @Randy Holmes-Farley This is totally an electro-chem question ;)

    You have any thoughts on this? Pretty surprised to go most of a day/night with no weigh-ins.

    You can clearly see corrosion going on in a few of the images in OP....
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2017
  5. Adele

    Adele I don't sing R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

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  6. frcarvajal

    frcarvajal Active Member

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  7. Gareth elliott

    Gareth elliott Valuable Member NJRC Member

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    They look like ferrite magnets, so iron oxide, i would guess the corrosion your seeing is a mixture of precipitate, salt and imperfections in the heatin process. The magnets are already in an oxidized state and can not be further oxidized.
    To be safe could give them a quick dip in epoxy.
     
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  8. ReefNoobie88

    ReefNoobie88 Active Member

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    Well I may be changing my flow choices after seeing this. Following along to see the outcome. Sorry this may be happening to your tank!
     
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  9. Abhishek

    Abhishek Valuable Member R2R Supporter Reef Squad R2R Excellence Award

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    Any ICP tests to show what heavy metals we are talking here ? I love detective works but without any chemical analysis, how do you know that you have a heavy metal problem ?

    Just so you know, not every heavy metal reported by ICP will have proven detrimental effect on your tank . Like Triton tells me I have crazy high Lanthanum but after talking to Randy and monitoring my acros for months, I do not see any ill effect of it . May be someday we can prove that Calcium carbonate skeletons in acros can be replaced with Lanthanum carbonate as @Randy Holmes-Farley said long back in a joke I think !!! And everyone will dose Lanthanum :D

    Regards,
    Abhishek
     
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  10. shred5

    shred5 Valuable Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

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    This looks like a defective unit like maybe dropped or something. Water should not get to a magnet because they can rust.

    I think with Triton testing we will start to see allot more issues with Chinese parts like using cheaper plastics and metals and they will be leaching stuff into our water. Allot of these issues that cannot be solved we are going to find out were Chinese Equipment. Vortech MP-40 wet sides have been rusting. Seems the shafts might be Chinese and made cheaper.

    I had a issue with a Chinese skimmer pump dumping tons of rust into a tank... I pulled it apart and the epoxy only covered part of the motor. They did not fully encapsulate the motor.

    I am guessing that is a defective unit or somehow got busted. I have never seen a issue with a Gyre like that unless it is specific to that model which is relatively new.
     
  11. MarsRover

    MarsRover Well-Known Member R2R Supporter SCMAS Member Build Thread Contributor

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    ICP From my build thread:


    Nah, this thing was designed with the magnets exposed. Look at the second picture in my first post... then go to https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/3k-gyre-generation-powerhead-icecap.html and look at the picture of the side of the unit and you can see it was designed like this.



    I am curious though.... many pumps actually run an impeller with a cylindrical magnet, exposed and all....hrmmmm......
     
  12. Gareth elliott

    Gareth elliott Valuable Member NJRC Member

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    The elements showing overabundance i would not think would be typical of ceramic magnet. Except perhaps your Barium, which is borderline. Your Al and Li i would suspect is from another source. As i suspect would not be incorporated into a magnet. Al having very weak magnetic field. Li only having ferromagnetism properties near 1 kelvin.
     
  13. shred5

    shred5 Valuable Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

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    There are different kinds of magnets and some rust and some do not in saltwater.
    Also that may not even be rust on that magnet.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2017
  14. gcarroll

    gcarroll Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award SCMAS Member Build Thread Contributor

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    100% correct information here. Over the last decade, Pump companies have introduced neodymium magnets to our hobby. This was primarily done for one reason. Miniaturization. As we have demanded that our products be slimmer and trimmer, many companies have turned to neodymium over ceramic magnets. They can get the same magnetic strength using a much smaller magnet. But corrosion is the greatest flaw for us when is comes to our aquariums as these magnets must be coated and any breach in that coating is 100% certain doom for the neodymium magnet since saltwater is a corrosive environment.


    Benefits of Each

    Ceramic and neodymium magnets each have different benefits. Ceramic magnets are easy to magnetize. They are very resistant to corrosion and generally do not need extra coatings for corrosion protection. They are resistant to demagnetization by outside fields. They are stronger than natural magnets, though many other types of magnet are stronger than them. They are relatively inexpensive. Neodymium magnets are the most powerful of all permanent magnets. A neodymium magnet can lift more than any other type of magnet of the same size. They are extremely resistant to demagnetization by external magnetic fields.

    Drawbacks of Each
    Ceramic and neodymium magnets have different drawbacks as well. Ceramic magnets are extremely brittle and easily broken. They cannot be used in machinery that experiences a lot of stress or flexing. They become demagnetized if they are exposed to high temperatures (above 480 degrees Fahrenheit.) They have only a moderate magnetic strength, making them unsuitable for applications requiring powerful magnetic fields. Neodymium magnets are relatively more expensive than ceramic magnets. They rust very easily, and extra steps must be taken to protect them from corrosion. Neodymium magnets are also very brittle and will crack under stress. They lose their magnetism if exposed to temperatures above 175 to 480 degrees Fahrenheit (depending on the exact alloy used).

    https://sciencing.com/ceramic-vs-neodymium-magnets-6676039.html
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2017
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  15. ReeferMadness80G

    ReeferMadness80G Valuable Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

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    [​IMG][​IMG] this rust colored matter covered the main motor magnet in my icecap gyre 3k.
     
  16. Gareth elliott

    Gareth elliott Valuable Member NJRC Member

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    That is most likely the magnet picking up iron that precipitated from the aquarium water and oxidized.
     
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  17. Robert Vacchiano

    Robert Vacchiano Active Member

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    Have not had any magnet rust but have a Chinese UV sterilizer that the black plastic is starting to become clear in spots losing the color .Sure some kind of paint got into reef. Jabo unit. I guess it does not pay to go for a cheaper product
     
  18. TheLadyCrash

    TheLadyCrash Active Member Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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  19. furam28

    furam28 Active Member

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    Ceramic magnets in general are reef safe. Lots of pumps use exposed ceramic impellers. Also, if rust was the issue, you'd see high levels of Fe. Your triton shows undetectable Fe levels. Do you use Marinepure blocks, or Seachem Phosguard? That can explain your high Al.
     
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  20. furam28

    furam28 Active Member

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    Interesting! Are you sure its not algae or bacterial slime? The color does look like rust. After you wipe the impeller, how does the magnet look? Are there spots or imperfections on the impeller? If it was rusting, you would see rust spots or cracks or scars on the impeller.


     
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