Ice Cap 3K Gyre Poisoning my tank?!?!

MarsRover

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Hey folks,

I posted this in my build thread but i'd like to start a dedicated discussion about what i just found and what i have been experiencing and see if others too have had similar/different experiences with this product...

I bought the IceCap 3K Gyre Generation pump with controller (3000 GPH) months ago and have generally been pleased with its function as a gyre....but after I put it in, I started to some short time after noticing I had heavy metal issues in my tank. (https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/3k-gyre-generation-powerhead-icecap.html)

All the other products i have in my tank are generally top of the line
Return pump: Vectra L1
Skimmer: Reef Octopus Elite 220 Int
Heater: Finnex TH deluxe 800 watt Titanium heater

After much detective work, I noticed the tank-side magnets on this product are un-incapsulated!

So basically putting this in your marine tank means you are plunking just two large magnets into your tank....

I know i have seen others with heavy metal issues have recommended to them to check very carefully everywhere in the tank for any forgotten about metal utensils, staples, or screws that could have fallen in and been forgotten about.....

Could this been my heavy metals culprit?!?

Anyone else experience these issues with this product???? pretty bummed....

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MarsRover

MarsRover

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@Randy Holmes-Farley This is totally an electro-chem question ;)

You have any thoughts on this? Pretty surprised to go most of a day/night with no weigh-ins.

You can clearly see corrosion going on in a few of the images in OP....
 
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Gareth elliott

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They look like ferrite magnets, so iron oxide, i would guess the corrosion your seeing is a mixture of precipitate, salt and imperfections in the heatin process. The magnets are already in an oxidized state and can not be further oxidized.
To be safe could give them a quick dip in epoxy.
 

ReefNoobie88

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Well I may be changing my flow choices after seeing this. Following along to see the outcome. Sorry this may be happening to your tank!
 

Abhishek

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Any ICP tests to show what heavy metals we are talking here ? I love detective works but without any chemical analysis, how do you know that you have a heavy metal problem ?

Just so you know, not every heavy metal reported by ICP will have proven detrimental effect on your tank . Like Triton tells me I have crazy high Lanthanum but after talking to Randy and monitoring my acros for months, I do not see any ill effect of it . May be someday we can prove that Calcium carbonate skeletons in acros can be replaced with Lanthanum carbonate as @Randy Holmes-Farley said long back in a joke I think !!! And everyone will dose Lanthanum :D

Regards,
Abhishek
 

shred5

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This looks like a defective unit like maybe dropped or something. Water should not get to a magnet because they can rust.

I think with Triton testing we will start to see allot more issues with Chinese parts like using cheaper plastics and metals and they will be leaching stuff into our water. Allot of these issues that cannot be solved we are going to find out were Chinese Equipment. Vortech MP-40 wet sides have been rusting. Seems the shafts might be Chinese and made cheaper.

I had a issue with a Chinese skimmer pump dumping tons of rust into a tank... I pulled it apart and the epoxy only covered part of the motor. They did not fully encapsulate the motor.

I am guessing that is a defective unit or somehow got busted. I have never seen a issue with a Gyre like that unless it is specific to that model which is relatively new.
 
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MarsRover

MarsRover

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Any ICP tests to show what heavy metals we are talking here ? I love detective works but without any chemical analysis, how do you know that you have a heavy metal problem ?

Just so you know, not every heavy metal reported by ICP will have proven detrimental effect on your tank . Like Triton tells me I have crazy high Lanthanum but after talking to Randy and monitoring my acros for months, I do not see any ill effect of it . May be someday we can prove that Calcium carbonate skeletons in acros can be replaced with Lanthanum carbonate as @Randy Holmes-Farley said long back in a joke I think !!! And everyone will dose Lanthanum :D

Regards,
Abhishek

ICP From my build thread:

Alright everyone, happy thanksgiving!

I've been trying to put out some fires the last few days.

My 2 Montipora capricornis that are supposed to be green with blue polyps are ALWAYS the first indicators that something is wrong in my tank. Unfortunately, this time things have tanked pretty hard. I did a triton a couple weeks ago and discovered pretty high levels of aluminum, wondering if it is from the concrete I used?

Results from 21 October 2017:
Screen Shot 2017-11-23 at 9.16.03 AM.png

Screen Shot 2017-11-23 at 9.16.12 AM.png

Screen Shot 2017-11-23 at 9.16.18 AM.png

Screen Shot 2017-11-23 at 9.16.26 AM.png


So I got 500mL CupriSorb and about the same amount of activated carbon and have been running both of those in my sump ever since.

Now I am battling something else! Always a fun time. I have been testing my water and I think I was being really stupid.... My alkalinity and calcium were through the floor. It's interesting, most of my corals look okay, with the exception of those two Montipora capricornis', and my Montipora stellata's bleached hard. The polyps still poke out but barely. Their white skeletons started to grow algae so i scooted them under the arch to shade them while they recover. The cap in the back right looks much better than the one in the foreground.
IMG_4921.JPG


My mysterious, I think Turbinaria, which is usually forest green with brown polyps, is another big indicator something is wrong because it usually starts to bleach lightly, after the capricornis'.
IMG_4917.JPG
IMG_4918.JPG


Also a hardy birdsnest, which usually grows like a weed, is being affected.
IMG_4920.JPG


A green eyed chalice is also taking a hit.
IMG_4919.JPG


My Ponape Birdnest (Seriatopora sp.) also a week or so ago started getting very dark polyps and is starting to dull in color.
IMG_4923.JPG


My other SPS's look okay. Here's a couple of them:
IMG_4922.JPG



I think there is a common denominator between what is hurting and what isn't. The fastest growers, but the less hardy of that group, started to show signs first, and now the hardy fastest growers are starting to show signs. The pieces i have that tend to be relatively slower growers are doing okay... I think this might also jive well with the fact that my parameters when i tested yesterday were here:
Screen Shot 2017-11-23 at 9.32.54 AM.png
I have a feeling my coral's were hurting on account of their skeletons dissolving back into the water......?

So I set about getting things back in order....slowly....but also as expeditiously as i thought i could without causing further damages. Had to get creative with what I have on hand!

Here is my log from yesterday and today:
Screen Shot 2017-11-23 at 9.36.37 AM.png


Basically I used redsea's KH coraline gro to boost the Alkalinity slowly while also using SeaChem's reef advantage calcium chloride (w/ Mg chloride etc...) to bring up my calcium. I successfully got my tank back within the golden "red box" on the dKH-Calcium chart (http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/11/chemistry) thank you @Randy Holmes-Farley. And decided to let the tank chill out for the day.

In the mean time, I finally got around to finishing the plumbing for the return. I ditched the old flexpipe for hard pipe manifold I put together with multiple gate valves to support expansion (just like the CAD designs from early on in the planning stages of this thread!). I also hacked away the housing of my other MH light fixture (250W) which I had on my old tank (now vacant of corals since they have all migrated to the new tank already) and installed that to fill out the lighting on the tank with a total of 650W MH over the full 5' length of the tank. Really did a good job filling in the shadows!

Woke up this morning and tested Ca, dKH, and Mg. All still close/within the desired ranges but because they are on the lower end / questionably with in the ranges, I decided to do a "daily dose" of Bionic. I will test again this evening and see where we're at. If we are still within good ranges I am going to religiously stay with my daily Bionic doses until I run out. At which point I will switch to RedSea's 3 part method.

As for NOPOX, you all might have noticed my schedule shows I stopped NOPOX autodosing. The last few times i tried implementing it, things just didn't look so good after a few days (even of super low doses like 0.1 mL/gallon/day) My nitrates are slowly decreasing which is good. I haven't given up on NOPOX but for the time being I'm keeping off of it until 1. it is needed or 2. everything else gets stabilized.... I plan to have quite a few fish with frequent auto feeding for a school of a dozen or so anthias eventually and so i suspect having the NOPOX to help keep nitrates at bay will help at that time. But as a good reef keeper knows, corals first :)

My snowflake is still doing very well. Eating like a champ. Hangs out with my coral banded shrimp and brittle start pretty regularly. Clearly they aren't food to her. The only last thing i need to move over are 3 small clams (2 deresa and 1 maxima) which are still finishing their observation/QT time in the old tank. Hopefully she doesn't start getting a taste for clam!

I'll keep you all posted. If you actually read all of this post, and have some constructive criticism or advice to share, I welcome it! I think once I get these parameters stabilized and daily doses of Bionic to suit, I'm going to run another Triton test and see what else is going on in the minutiae.

Screen Shot 2017-11-23 at 9.51.01 AM.png


This looks like a defective unit like maybe dropped or something. Water should not get to a magnet because they can rust.

I think with Triton testing we will start to see allot more issues with Chinese parts like using cheaper plastics and metals and they will be leaching stuff into our water. Allot of these issues that cannot be solved we are going to find out were Chinese Equipment. Vortech MP-40 wet sides have been rusting. Seems the shafts might be Chinese and made cheaper.

I had a issue with a Chinese skimmer pump dumping tons of rust into a tank... I pulled it apart and the epoxy only covered part of the motor. They did not fully encapsulate the motor.

I am guessing that is a defective unit or somehow got busted. I have never seen a issue with a Gyre like that unless it is specific to that model which is relatively new.

Nah, this thing was designed with the magnets exposed. Look at the second picture in my first post... then go to https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/3k-gyre-generation-powerhead-icecap.html and look at the picture of the side of the unit and you can see it was designed like this.



I am curious though.... many pumps actually run an impeller with a cylindrical magnet, exposed and all....hrmmmm......
 

Gareth elliott

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The elements showing overabundance i would not think would be typical of ceramic magnet. Except perhaps your Barium, which is borderline. Your Al and Li i would suspect is from another source. As i suspect would not be incorporated into a magnet. Al having very weak magnetic field. Li only having ferromagnetism properties near 1 kelvin.
 

shred5

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There are different kinds of magnets and some rust and some do not in saltwater.
Also that may not even be rust on that magnet.
 
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gcarroll

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They look like ferrite magnets, so iron oxide, i would guess the corrosion your seeing is a mixture of precipitate, salt and imperfections in the heatin process. The magnets are already in an oxidized state and can not be further oxidized.
100% correct information here. Over the last decade, Pump companies have introduced neodymium magnets to our hobby. This was primarily done for one reason. Miniaturization. As we have demanded that our products be slimmer and trimmer, many companies have turned to neodymium over ceramic magnets. They can get the same magnetic strength using a much smaller magnet. But corrosion is the greatest flaw for us when is comes to our aquariums as these magnets must be coated and any breach in that coating is 100% certain doom for the neodymium magnet since saltwater is a corrosive environment.


Benefits of Each

Ceramic and neodymium magnets each have different benefits. Ceramic magnets are easy to magnetize. They are very resistant to corrosion and generally do not need extra coatings for corrosion protection. They are resistant to demagnetization by outside fields. They are stronger than natural magnets, though many other types of magnet are stronger than them. They are relatively inexpensive. Neodymium magnets are the most powerful of all permanent magnets. A neodymium magnet can lift more than any other type of magnet of the same size. They are extremely resistant to demagnetization by external magnetic fields.

Drawbacks of Each
Ceramic and neodymium magnets have different drawbacks as well. Ceramic magnets are extremely brittle and easily broken. They cannot be used in machinery that experiences a lot of stress or flexing. They become demagnetized if they are exposed to high temperatures (above 480 degrees Fahrenheit.) They have only a moderate magnetic strength, making them unsuitable for applications requiring powerful magnetic fields. Neodymium magnets are relatively more expensive than ceramic magnets. They rust very easily, and extra steps must be taken to protect them from corrosion. Neodymium magnets are also very brittle and will crack under stress. They lose their magnetism if exposed to temperatures above 175 to 480 degrees Fahrenheit (depending on the exact alloy used).

https://sciencing.com/ceramic-vs-neodymium-magnets-6676039.html
 
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Robert Vacchiano

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Have not had any magnet rust but have a Chinese UV sterilizer that the black plastic is starting to become clear in spots losing the color .Sure some kind of paint got into reef. Jabo unit. I guess it does not pay to go for a cheaper product
 

furam28

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Ceramic magnets in general are reef safe. Lots of pumps use exposed ceramic impellers. Also, if rust was the issue, you'd see high levels of Fe. Your triton shows undetectable Fe levels. Do you use Marinepure blocks, or Seachem Phosguard? That can explain your high Al.
 

furam28

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Interesting! Are you sure its not algae or bacterial slime? The color does look like rust. After you wipe the impeller, how does the magnet look? Are there spots or imperfections on the impeller? If it was rusting, you would see rust spots or cracks or scars on the impeller.


08ac6793aadf9478186b3f02d940dd4d.heic
b6da0b9b7e2294546c7655ccb804c44c.heic
this rust colored matter covered the main motor magnet in my icecap gyre 3k.
 

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