Ich, and how to stop it before it begins

Discussion in 'Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis' started by mopsinc, Jan 2, 2018.

  1. Dogtown

    Dogtown Active Member

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    Its a new tank and is essentially fish only at this time, right? If that is the case, you can gradually introduce chloroquine phosphate (CP) and that will kill the ich safely and effectively without you having a an ammonia spike. You may want to read up on CP as it is easy on your biological filtration, fish and is very effective. Much better than copper. Simply dose as you will see recommended on many threads. When you start to see algae return to your tank, you know you need to add a maintenance dose. After 90 days, add carbon and do a few water changes to rid yourself of it. Very easy and effective.
    Here is some background. I've been in the hobby since 2011 and have experienced ich before. On my latest build, started April of 2017, I intentionally started with CP in the display tank because I assumed that at least one fish would bring in ich with it. I have a power blue tang and another dozen fish or so. None required QT using this method. All are ich free. In fact, there are no health issues at all and the tank now has a lots of healthy growing SPS corals from Z's, RR, and JF. My own experimentation proved that it works great. I also dose CP at work where I maintain several medicated commercial tanks.

    I won't bother with more details for now. Go ahead an read up. If after that you have more questions, let me know.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
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  2. Brew12

    Brew12 Electrical Gru Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor North Alabama Reef Club Partner Member 2018

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    Have you found CP to be safe for inverts?
     
  3. Dogtown

    Dogtown Active Member

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    During the 90 day treatment, it isn't. After treatment, a couple of 50% water changes over two weeks and plenty of carbon during that two week time period and inverts were perfectly fine and continue to be so. Its the easiest and most effective quarantine treatment I've ever dealt with.
     
  4. mopsinc

    mopsinc Member

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    Not quite sure what CP is.
    But I also went to check on my purple tang just now and he went from having 3 or 4 white spots to 12. All very small. Just want to make sure I’m aware of what will happen with these fish in the next few days. I want to watch for signs of struggle and I’m not sure how many spots is too many. Will they eventually go away?
     
  5. Dogtown

    Dogtown Active Member

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    Search for chloroquine phosphate here on r2r. You’ll find dozens of posts. It’s the best 21st century treatment for Ich.
     
  6. Dogtown

    Dogtown Active Member

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    Ich will eventually get in their fish gills and from there, most will die. All will suffer however. Ich goes in waves as well. You will see the spots clear up for a few weeks but then Ich spots will reappear in even greater numbers. This is nothing to sit and wait on.

    Get new life spectrum ick shield powder for your water treatment. You can also get new life spectrum Ich shield fish food but that is secondary. Use both. They really work.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
  7. mopsinc

    mopsinc Member

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    I made a post but not sure if it went through. Anyway, my purple tang had 4 spots and 24 hours later I’d say it has about 12 now. Will Thisbe eventually die down a bit and they won’t be infested with spots all the time? Or will these spots always be there and maybe multiply? What signs should I look for? Like I’m not sure what is normal for management vs what’s dangerous and means you’re not managing it well enough and it’s harming the fish
     
  8. Brew12

    Brew12 Electrical Gru Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor North Alabama Reef Club Partner Member 2018

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    That was my understanding also. He has quite the collection of inverts already so I'm not sure CP would be an option.
     
  9. Brew12

    Brew12 Electrical Gru Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor North Alabama Reef Club Partner Member 2018

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    It may, or it may not, If the fishes immunity kicks in stronger it will die out. If the fish remains weak to it, then they will continue to multiply. Unfortunately, I can't tell you one way or the other but if you have a chance to get the Polyp Lab product I would do so and use it quickly. It is an oxidizer and will take out the free swimming parasites effectively. It just won't do much to the ones that are encysted to reproduce. It will give the fish a chance to recover though.
     
  10. Brew12

    Brew12 Electrical Gru Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor North Alabama Reef Club Partner Member 2018

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    The Ich shield product would be a good option also if you can get it more readily than the Polyp Lab stuff.
     
  11. Mark Derail

    Mark Derail Active Member R2R Supporter

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    I went full QT, and tore down the DT to get all the fish. DT went fallow 2.5 months.

    Yes it's hard - but - it would be easier to use your DT as the QT. Shrimps and crabs are easier to catch, and just donate them to your LFS, and do what "Dogtown" suggests. You could also try something different to Cupramine - I don't recommend Cupramine, because that's what I used and lost two tangs to it.
    All other fish were fine though.
     
  12. mopsinc

    mopsinc Member

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    Well I don’t want to lose these fish. Partly because they are so beautiful and also because they are expensive. Can’t imagine restarting everything. The purple tang was $150 alone.

    I can’t make my tank fallow because I have no QT
    I have coral in my tank so I can’t really use an ich treatment. Is the ich guard reef safe?
     
  13. Brew12

    Brew12 Electrical Gru Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor North Alabama Reef Club Partner Member 2018

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    Any chance you have hydrogen peroxide in the house? You can use that which should help. Dose it at 1mL per 10g. It won't do much but it is better than nothing if you don't have anything better available. It is also reef safe.
     
  14. mopsinc

    mopsinc Member

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    Hydrogen peroxide is reef safe and fish safe???
     
  15. Brew12

    Brew12 Electrical Gru Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor North Alabama Reef Club Partner Member 2018

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    Yup. At least it is when using 3% stuff at 1mL per 10g. It may not be as effective as other oxidizers out there, such as the Polyp Lab product, but it will help limit the Ich in its theront stage. It might help you get through until you can get something better.
     
  16. mopsinc

    mopsinc Member

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    Honestly never would have guessed. I need something to stop it in it’s free swimming state. Thanks I’ll see if I can dig up some 3% in my house rn
     
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  17. Brew12

    Brew12 Electrical Gru Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor North Alabama Reef Club Partner Member 2018

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    I wouldn't recommend it for Ich long term but if you have it, use it!

    The problem with ich is that there is no known reef safe effective treatment for it when it is in its cyst state while reproducing. There are reef safe treatments that target it in the free swimming state which helps give the fish a chance to recover and help develop an immunity.

    The immune system in fish is very sensitive to its stress level. If fed well and low stress they can fight off most parasites. Some times it is easier said than done. That is why I do 100% QT however there are people who are very successful by just boosting a fishes immune system.
     
  18. mopsinc

    mopsinc Member

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    Yeah I’ll do this tonight, get something to help the fish in the coming days and see how it goes. You almost wish you could just pluck the cysts off... thanks I’ll see how this does for the night
     
  19. Dogtown

    Dogtown Active Member

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    It’s very easy to remove any coral frags you have and place them in a temporary tank. You can use the Ich laden water to fill the temp tank. Consider doing that so you can treat your display tank with CP. Peroxide in your DT will not do much unfortunately (I wish it did).
     
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  20. mopsinc

    mopsinc Member

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    And how much will this CP do? Like overall. And the peroxide is just for tonight until I can do something.
    So if I take out my coral and such, how do I add them back in once I add the ich solution. Do I need to do a large water change? Or after it settles in the water for a few days it’s ok to add the coral again
     
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