ICH in My Display Tank

[nopurposejust4fun]

Hey everybody,

I have a 90 gallon water box system. I m pretty new to the hobby, but everyday reading watching researching.

I had a small porcupine, dog face puffer, Picasso trigger and snowflake eel in my system. My porcupine got sick, his eyes got too cloudy. I decided to fresh water dip him for 3 minutes and put him back to the display tank, and Nextday he passed away. He wasn't eating and his eyes were like almost shut down.

Then I started realizing that my dog face is also getting white spots all over him and his eyes are also getting cloudy. Few days later then my Picasso trigger fish....

When I realized that dogface is also getting sick, I decided to move him to 15 gallon hospital tank and dosed coppersafe fritz even though I knew that puffers are not good with coppers but I felt like this was my last chance since I thought he was gonna die just like the porcupine. I left trigger and the eel in the main display tank. After a day he started getting all white spots on him, after I moved the dogface to 15 gallon.

After a day in there, I decided to get that dogface to the main tank since I knew that the whole tank was infested after seeing Trigger also has ice on him and moved the eel to the 15 gallon after cleaning the tank very throughly. Then now I am with Picasso trigger and dog face in the main display tank and I dosed the fritz coppersafe in there.

Dog face is sitting at the bottom and feel like getting worst. He does not swim a lot, I have to put the food in to his face for him to nip on it. Trigger is swimming and eating but lots of white spots.

I am very overwhelmed at the moment, and I keep reading all different things and that's even making me more confused and upset in this hobby. I always thought that this should be a relaxing hobby not upsetting and keep testing waters everyday, worrying too much this that.

I really need good advise from the experts since I really want to focus on couple of things rather than listening all kinds of ideas and techniques.

What should I do?? I know I used the copper in the main display tank, hoping that dogface and trigger can be saved. Who knows. But what is waiting me next, such as that display tank having copper in it, what's next for future like fish surviving or fish dying. If fish dying what I will have to do in order to get rid of the copper after killing all the ice in the display etc.

Any help advise is appreciated, and similar experienced advises are even much much more appreciated.

Thank you

 

[Jay Hemdal]

It can be tough to treat advanced cases of ich like this - any treatment you use can take up to 3 days to work, and the remaining fish may not have that much time.
Dosing coppersafe in a DT with sand and rock can be done, but you need a good copper test like the Hanna meter so you can redose any copper being taken up by the rock.
What about running hyposalinity in the DT? I posted instructions for that at the top of this section.
Either way, I think you need to get a treatment started tonight…..
Jay

 

[nopurposejust4fun]

Currently have API copper test. Hannah is being delivered tomorrow. I believe I need to reach at 2.00 ppm with coppersafe fritz right? With API copper test, it read less than 2.00 and it is very hard to read...

Lets see how it goes. Eel is in the other tank at the moment.

Lets say, if they can't make it Picasso and dog face, how would I cure the entire tank for ich. Should I still maintain 2.00 PPM in the tank for I don't know for 3-4 weeks before I can put a fish in it?

 

[Jedi1199]

AS I read through your first post and finally reached the pictures, my very first reaction was "OOOHHHH this is a very advanced case of Ich". Jay is by FAR more the expert than I in this so I would do exactly what he tells you immediately.

If the unfortunate happens, and everything is lost, simply run the tank fallow for like 90 days. Further, if possible, stop going to the store you got these fish from (assuming of course they all came from the same store). While you run your main DT fallow, you can begin adding new fish to your QT tank so once the main DT is ready to go again, you already have a few new babies to add in.

Hope it all works out for you... Keep us posted.

 

[nopurposejust4fun]

Yes, thank you. If as you said if unfortunate happens: My question was, should I be keep maintaining the copper in the tank or just do some major water change and keep the tank fishless for god knows how long in order to be very sure that ich is gone from the tank.

And !! What about my snowflake eel that is in the separate tank at the moment ?

 

[Jedi1199]

Yes, thank you. If as you said if unfortunate happens: My question was, should I be keep maintaining the copper in the tank or just do some major water change and keep the tank fishless for god knows how long in order to be very sure that ich is gone from the tank.

And !! What about my snowflake eel that is in the separate tank at the moment ?

Are you planning to add inverts or corals to this tank at some point? If you intend to keep it as a fish only tank, then You can keep the copper in it. I treated my 180g FO tank with copper-Power when I discovered Ich on one of my fish and have never removed it.

Running the tank fallow will break the life cycle of the Ich parasite and it will be safe to reintroduce fish to the tank after than with no further treatment required.

 

[BoneDoc]

Running the tank fallow/empty of fish is only needed if you’re going to put inverts or corals. With your livestock you’re going to have FOWLR tank anyway. So no fallow period is needed if you treat it with copper at 2ppm.

 

[nopurposejust4fun]

 

[nopurposejust4fun]

Not sure if you guys can see but click on below links to see:






After receiving my hanna copper checker, seems like I overdosed it. At first it showed as 4.25 PPM !!!!

I did water changes and brought down to 2.25 ppm. I`ll do one final water change now, maybe a 5 gallon hoping that I can get that copper around 2.00 PPM...

Seems like they are a bit more active especially the trigger and they eat !!! I don't want to jinx it but hoping that I can save them.


How long does it usually take ich to die off with copper treatment ??

 

[bnord]

Sorry for your troubles and losses. You taking this seriously and know that each loss hurts. But don’t give up faith. Follow Jay’s instructions and you’ll get through this.
One thing I would consider for peace of mind is a good UV system. I had a smooth running tank including QT in my early days, not so long ago, and even with that still broke with velvet.
Went through fallow with all of my treated stock in hospital re added them and added the UV system and have been well over a year with no problems. Now only use the UV in times of change, which not often
Really, don’t give up hope and best of luck

 

[nopurposejust4fun]

Sorry for your troubles and losses. You taking this seriously and know that each loss hurts. But don’t give up faith. Follow Jay’s instructions and you’ll get through this.
One thing I would consider for peace of mind is a good UV system. I had a smooth running tank including QT in my early days, not so long ago, and even with that still broke with velvet.
Went through fallow with all of my treated stock in hospital re added them and added the UV system and have been well over a year with no problems. Now only use the UV in times of change, which not often
Really, don’t give up hope and best of luck

Honestly, probably spent close to 10k or more for this thing lol and seeing these failure hurst me not only the money but also the time I spent. Lets see how it goes. I`ll give an update on everything that I go thru

 

[ReefingInMadrid]

@nopurposejust4fun another vote for an oversized UV system.. i also struggled with ich, and as you know, once is in your system is very hard to erradicate.. and to avoid getting it again you need a QT tank, be very methodic with the quarantine proccess etc.. An oversized UV lamp connected to your return pump (with a very slow waterflow to make sure it KILLS the ich) changed it all for me. I know i have ich in the system. but it is hands down the best way i have found to manage it. I have 3 tangs in my reeftank and none of them ever showed a spot since i installed it and went through the last ich outbreak. For me this is an absolute must for a reef tank. It will save you a lot of dissapointments (and money) in the long run. And it will also help you keep unwanted algae in check, so it is a win win.

Good luck!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Not sure if you guys can see but click on below links to see:






After receiving my hanna copper checker, seems like I overdosed it. At first it showed as 4.25 PPM !!!!

I did water changes and brought down to 2.25 ppm. I`ll do one final water change now, maybe a 5 gallon hoping that I can get that copper around 2.00 PPM...

Seems like they are a bit more active especially the trigger and they eat !!! I don't want to jinx it but hoping that I can save them.


How long does it usually take ich to die off with copper treatment ??

As I mentioned, it can take 3 days for copper to start to work. You'll see a gradually reduction in number of spots, then the fish will have just a general cloudiness to their skin. You'll want to keep the copper up for 30 days. Some people say 14 days, but the logic of that is flawed: copper doesn't kill the tomont stage and those stages can survive for 30+ days, so 14 days just isn't long enough.

Both fish still eating is a really good sign.

Not sure how you got a double dose of copper, the Hanna checker can be a bit tricky to use, are you confident it is accurate?

Jay

 

[nopurposejust4fun]

Yeap, i did test multiple times. Reason i double dosed it just because while i was waiting for hanna checker to arrive i was testing with API, it it wasnt nothing never 2:00 orange color, so i got worried added more. When hanna arrived i tested 2 times it showed 4.20 something. 30 gallon water change brought to 2.20. Now waiting more powder to arrive and check again..

 

[nopurposejust4fun]

Alright, now copper is 2.06. And fish seems like doing much better. They got active, especially the puffer, start swimming around now. Before he was like always at the bottom, not moving all the time.
Hopefully this ich will be gone for sure, and i can get back the eel in this tank.

Coopersafe Fritz Treatment on Puffer

youtube.com

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Alright, now copper is 2.06. And fish seems like doing much better. They got active, especially the puffer, start swimming around now. Before he was like always at the bottom, not moving all the time.
Hopefully this ich will be gone for sure, and i can get back the eel in this tank.

Coopersafe Fritz Treatment on Puffer

youtube.com

The trigger looks MUCH better. I would hold at this copper level for now, only increase it if they start to backslide.

Jay

 

[nopurposejust4fun]

If they survived 4 plus copper levels for 1-2 days, i feel like they will survive out of this

 

[BoneDoc]

If they’re heading the right direction after this then it’s a good sign. Hang in there. I’ve been in similar shoes before

 

[BoneDoc]

Just make sure your other para enters… ammonia and nitrates are good. Copper can mess with ammonia test but the salifert ammonia badge is a good thing to add to the tank.

 

[BoneDoc]