Ich is a nightmare, i need advice

boeingn747 · Jan 12, 2022

Ok so I have a 2 year old mixed reef tank 175gallon tank little over 250gallon system. About a month ago I noticed what I thought was stress related white spots on my powder blue tang. Well fast forward and its clearly ich. I only feed frozen food, live black worms, or live brine shrimp. I always soak food in selcon everyday when I feed frozen. Well I recently noticed the white spots getting worse on my powder blue. Being a mixed reef major meds are out. So I started dosing metroplex/focus in the food with a drop or 2 of garlic. I also started dosing polyp lab reef medic max dose twice a day. And hr before lights on and right at lights out. It's been a couple weeks and I still notice a heavy white spot load on my powder blue. He is the only fish that is heavily covered. My Scopus tang, purple tang, gem tang, hippo tang, blue eye kole tang, and Achilles tang are all spot free. There are a few spots on my royal gramma, and one of my Clown fish. My powder blue is still eating well. I just don't know what to do. I have heard somany mixed reviews with the reef medic. I only gave it a shot as a first last resort because my friend who has 20 years experience says it works if used as directed. Any advice or recommendations on what to do short of removing my powder blue and treating with copper? Catching fish in that tank is a total nightmare. I just not want to lose the fish.
I hope someone with experience in the subject can chime in with some tips.

Kershaw · Jan 12, 2022

First off reef medic is snake oil. And I’m sorry your dealing with this.
Also I don’t think there is such a thing as stress white spots… some fish do change colors like fox faces when stressed.

do you QT every thing that goes into this tank? To remove all ich from your system you will have to remove all fish an QT them. Then you will have to leave the tank fish free for 76 days.

for ich management. Up the feeding and get more live foods if possible. Running a UV can also help reduce the amount of ich in tank while this fishes immune system can’t catch up.

there are allot of people on here that know allot more then me. And can give more detailed help. They should chime in soon.

jassermd · Jan 12, 2022

If it were me, I would do everything I can to catch the fish (and the others that are sick at a minimum) and treat in a QT w/ copper.
Best option would be to catch all and go fallow while treating everyone in copper.
I'm by no means an expert and only speaking from experience and reading the threads on fish diseases, particuarly ich. I don't think there are many options here... pulling in @Jay Hemdal to see if he has any other advice

Spieg · Jan 12, 2022

Agree that QT and fallow tank is the best way to go. Someone is sure to jump in any minute and tell you that you don't need to do anything and fish will become immune to Ich (I'm not in that camp).

jfoahs04 · Jan 12, 2022

Generally, there are two options. You can remove all of the fish and treat with copper while letting the tank go fallow for 76 days. Or you can “manage” ich by feeding well, creating a low stress environment, and hoping for the best.

The latter may work with minimal loss of life, but it can be a nightmare as you watch your fish start flashing and slowly develop spots. Often times, big losses happen anyway. I’ve tried this approach and it really can be miserable. On the other hand, others have reported success with “management.”

IME, there are no good reef safe treatments for ich, so the former is my preferred approach. I’ve lost fish in treatment (recently even) that may have survived a “management” approach in the DT, but overall this is the lesser of two evils and the better long term approach.

Lavey29 · Jan 12, 2022

You're doing the exact steps I would take. I would add Dr. Tim's fish probiotic also. Something stressed the tang and weakened his immune but if he is eating healthy it will pass. It's hard to find a tank that has no ich to some degree in my opinion.

boeingn747 · Jan 12, 2022

Thank you so far for all the tips. I do understand that removing the fish and treating with copper is the best option. Without fing up my entire reef to get the fish out it will be a complete nightmare getting them all out. I do have a tank matez fish trap that I could use to try to catch one or 2 at a time. Another issue is my qt/hospital tank is small only 15gallons. As far as my qt process I normally buy fish from reputable places that offer a 30 medicated qt at an additional cost. If they are small I will put them in the 15 for 30 days and treat with parizipro and ich x. However, from all of my research on ich. It can come on any hard surface like snail shells, live rock, etc. I try to do my best at keeping the bad out. Like some have said and the research that I have done, it is my belief that ich is present in most fish tanks, and when fish are healthy they are able to fight off the parasite. When they become stressed or a weekend immune system that's why they can become overrun. As far as the reef medic is concerned, I do believe there is some benefit to it. I do not think it is a total waste. I just don't think it has nearly the results of copper or other harsh medications that show very quick results. There is a lot of people thay claim that it works and others that call it snake oil. This is the first time I have used the product. If it doesn't work then it will be my last time. Unfortunately right now I just don't have the ability to let my tank sit fish free for 76 days. I guess for now I will have to catch the powder blue and the gramma and treat with copper. Hopefully build his immune system up and hopefully he can fight it off. This is a real *****, that is forsure!

Tamberav · Jan 12, 2022

boeingn747 said:
Ok so I have a 2 year old mixed reef tank 175gallon tank little over 250gallon system. About a month ago I noticed what I thought was stress related white spots on my powder blue tang. Well fast forward and its clearly ich. I only feed frozen food, live black worms, or live brine shrimp. I always soak food in selcon everyday when I feed frozen. Well I recently noticed the white spots getting worse on my powder blue. Being a mixed reef major meds are out. So I started dosing metroplex/focus in the food with a drop or 2 of garlic. I also started dosing polyp lab reef medic max dose twice a day. And hr before lights on and right at lights out. It's been a couple weeks and I still notice a heavy white spot load on my powder blue. He is the only fish that is heavily covered. My Scopus tang, purple tang, gem tang, hippo tang, blue eye kole tang, and Achilles tang are all spot free. There are a few spots on my royal gramma, and one of my Clown fish. My powder blue is still eating well. I just don't know what to do. I have heard somany mixed reviews with the reef medic. I only gave it a shot as a first last resort because my friend who has 20 years experience says it works if used as directed. Any advice or recommendations on what to do short of removing my powder blue and treating with copper? Catching fish in that tank is a total nightmare. I just not want to lose the fish.
I hope someone with experience in the subject can chime in with some tips.

Experimental but shows promise

How To - Peroxide (H2O2) dosing for parasites in reef tank

***Current dosing recommendation for active outbreaks, using 3% hydrogen peroxide*** (a TLDR for people who just need to know how to get started) Week 1: 1mL/8g, 3x per day Week 2: 1mL/5g, 3x per day Week 3: 1mL/5g, 3x per day, plus overnight dosing. Continue the week 3 dosing regimen for a...

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Saltees · Jan 12, 2022

boeingn747 said:
Thank you so far for all the tips. I do understand that removing the fish and treating with copper is the best option. Without fing up my entire reef to get the fish out it will be a complete nightmare getting them all out. I do have a tank matez fish trap that I could use to try to catch one or 2 at a time. Another issue is my qt/hospital tank is small only 15gallons. As far as my qt process I normally buy fish from reputable places that offer a 30 medicated qt at an additional cost. If they are small I will put them in the 15 for 30 days and treat with parizipro and ich x. However, from all of my research on ich. It can come on any hard surface like snail shells, live rock, etc. I try to do my best at keeping the bad out. Like some have said and the research that I have done, it is my belief that ich is present in most fish tanks, and when fish are healthy they are able to fight off the parasite. When they become stressed or a weekend immune system that's why they can become overrun. As far as the reef medic is concerned, I do believe there is some benefit to it. I do not think it is a total waste. I just don't think it has nearly the results of copper or other harsh medications that show very quick results. There is a lot of people thay claim that it works and others that call it snake oil. This is the first time I have used the product. If it doesn't work then it will be my last time. Unfortunately right now I just don't have the ability to let my tank sit fish free for 76 days. I guess for now I will have to catch the powder blue and the gramma and treat with copper. Hopefully build his immune system up and hopefully he can fight it off. This is a real *****, that is forsure!

I understand your predicament. I've gone fallow for 90 days, only to have ICK from corals, because I QT all my fishes with 24-36 hrs TTM with 30 mins H2O2 bath in between transfer. Therefore, unless you QT corals, you'll be managing ICK sooner or later.

I ran FULL course FULL dose of POLYPLAB MEDIC followed by ORCALAB RESQ at the first sign of ICK on my PBlueT and PBrownT. My PT was relatively unaffected by ICK. The ICK got worse during treatment, but tailed off at the end of the month long combined peroxide salt treatment. 80% SPS RTN were the collateral damage.

At the end of the peroxide salt treatments, there were still some spots left on the fins of the PBTs, I then proceed to Dr G Anti Parasite Feed (Chloroquine Phosphate) religiously day and night for the FULL 3 weeks, that took care of the remaining spots! I followed on with Dr G Dewormer Feed (Praziquantel) for the FULL 2 weeks, since I had that on hand.
During the whole time, I fed heavy on TDO Pellets laced with TM IMMUNVIT and LIPOVIT and I'm still feeding them with the above combination. It's coming to 2 month spotless since spotting the last spot.

I didn't remove the PBT to treat it separately in the first place because unless you fallow the tank for 76 days or more, the PBT will catch the ICK once it's back in the tank even you'd coppered it in QT.

Hope my experience helps...hang in there!

Jay Hemdal · Jan 13, 2022

boeingn747 said:
Thank you so far for all the tips. I do understand that removing the fish and treating with copper is the best option. Without fing up my entire reef to get the fish out it will be a complete nightmare getting them all out. I do have a tank matez fish trap that I could use to try to catch one or 2 at a time. Another issue is my qt/hospital tank is small only 15gallons. As far as my qt process I normally buy fish from reputable places that offer a 30 medicated qt at an additional cost. If they are small I will put them in the 15 for 30 days and treat with parizipro and ich x. However, from all of my research on ich. It can come on any hard surface like snail shells, live rock, etc. I try to do my best at keeping the bad out. Like some have said and the research that I have done, it is my belief that ich is present in most fish tanks, and when fish are healthy they are able to fight off the parasite. When they become stressed or a weekend immune system that's why they can become overrun. As far as the reef medic is concerned, I do believe there is some benefit to it. I do not think it is a total waste. I just don't think it has nearly the results of copper or other harsh medications that show very quick results. There is a lot of people thay claim that it works and others that call it snake oil. This is the first time I have used the product. If it doesn't work then it will be my last time. Unfortunately right now I just don't have the ability to let my tank sit fish free for 76 days. I guess for now I will have to catch the powder blue and the gramma and treat with copper. Hopefully build his immune system up and hopefully he can fight it off. This is a real *****, that is forsure!

Sorry to hear all this, I don't have a solution for it other than your current plan. Once ich reaches a tipping point (so often seen in PBT!) Management techniques stop working. At another level, when reached, peroxide treatments usually stop working. In really severe cases, even copper won't work fast enough.

Jay

jassermd · Jan 13, 2022

I know you said you are reluctant to catch your fish... been there myself! and even more recently had to catch a fish for aggression. This is what I used to catch all my fish when I was dealing with the same issue you are facing. BTW, I have a 280g DT w/ 300# live rock and a hood... It's a challenge to say the least! It can be done, just take a LOT of patience and persistence.

Fish Trap

Get that troublemaker out of your aquarium! IceCap Fish Traps are by far the easiest solution to catching fish or even invertebrates out of your aquarium while minimizing stress and potential physical damage. Just place the trap against your tanks glass or acrylic pane and dispense some food...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

Pimba · Jan 27, 2022

@boeingn747 can you give an update on the situation? Is the reef medic working or have you don't anything else?

Freenow54 · Jan 27, 2022

jassermd said:
If it were me, I would do everything I can to catch the fish (and the others that are sick at a minimum) and treat in a QT w/ copper.
Best option would be to catch all and go fallow while treating everyone in copper.
I'm by no means an expert and only speaking from experience and reading the threads on fish diseases, particuarly ich. I don't think there are many options here... pulling in @Jay Hemdal to see if he has any other advice

I have read up on it. You are lucky it has not spread to the others. Follow previous advice. The little critters breed fast. They also look for new hosts. You brought it in with something. If they cant find a host they will die . So remove fish, and treat them, and the empty tank. You can find all sorts of information about this

LeftyReefer · Jan 27, 2022

Been down this road unfortunately.... But I caught my surviving fish, treated them with copper in a QT tank and then fallowed my display tank for 76+ days (actually did 90 days) and then returned my fish, been ICH free since.

I pay a lot more attention to what goes in my tank now.

boeingn747 · Jan 27, 2022

Pimba said:
@boeingn747 can you give an update on the situation? Is the reef medic working or have you don't anything else?

No, it does not work at all. I used a full bottle of the medic. I now believe that the people that claim it works, either don't have a bad ich problem, or when the ich falls off becasue of the life cycle theh think it's working. I have reef tank full of fish inuding a 7 different tangs. Only my powder blue was affected by the ich. Every few days they would fall off, and then the next day there would be more and more etc. At the end of the last dose I knew it did nothing. At this point he now has a secondary infection of some kind. He has lost a lot of weight and is very thin. I have pulled him from the tank and he is now in a QT/Hospital tank and I am in the process of treating with copper power slowly bringing it up to 2.0ppm. I am also using parizipro to address the internal issues. Hope for the best. Do not waste your time or money with Reef medic or any other "Reef Safe" treatment. I wasted a month messing with it. I will Also add that I am in the process of cycling a 40gallon tank that I will use to house some of my fish while I let my main display to go fallow. At this time I have realized that a QT tank is the only real option and that i will never again add a fish or invert to my tank without a 30 day QT. It's just not worth this headache. Hope someone out there will read this and learn from my mistake.

gd1985 · Apr 23, 2022

Just resurrecting this old thread.

So I had a BAD outbreak of ich within a couple months of setting my tank up. Lost approx 10 fish to it so I caught the remaining 4 & went fallow for 90 days.

No issues over the last few months ich related as i've QT'd every fish i've put in since....then I got a powder blue.

I kept him in QT for 8/9 weeks & treated with cupramine. no signs of ich & eating frozen foods well, won't touch nori but we're trying.

He's been in the tank 2 months now & already had x2 flare ups with white spot. Once was after I moved some of the rock work about to reduce aggression & last night its come back after a 2 day black out to combat a cyano outbreak. So the stress of that has definitely brought it on.

He's still eating & not acting weird, no other fish show any signs at all. The UV has been running since before I put the PB in, that's the only reason I bought it!

There's no chance i'm breaking this tank down for the 2nd time in a year.

I have added coral that haven't gone through QT, I just dip them in red sea dip x.

Will keep an eye on the tang but I fully understand why they're call ich magnets!

Silentdeath5 · Apr 23, 2022

Maybe it was just something I had in my tank but here is my experience. Whenever I add in a powder blue/Powder brown/Achilles I get an ick outbreak. I’ve tried the “if they are eating they’ll be fine” route and they eat like a pig with ick for a week or 2 and still die. Once that fish dies or is taken out, ALL the other fish(other kind of tangs, clowns, etc) begin recovering! My hippos would look like you rolled it in sand at the beach and fully recover within a week. This has been the trend for my system and I’ve just said they’re not worth it for me though I love those guys. Maybe in a new system I can try again. It’s like they were literally the main “ick producers”