Ich or Velvet, differing opinions from LFS

[Salamander-Hime]

Hey everyone… As the title says, I bought a new fish from my LFS and it is unfortunately sick. It’s got a bunch of white dots on it (pic below). I called the store I bought it from and they said they have been struggling with velvet and that is likely what it is. They looked at the pic in store and confirmed velvet and gave me cuprion (I think?) copper to treat it and I have been QT and treating my fish for 6 days now and they all are doing well, and there are no longer spots on the sick fish. Which brings me to yesterday where I showed another LFS owner the picture and he said it was ick for sure… so now I’m confused, could someone please ID? Thanks.

 

[MnFish1]

Hey everyone… As the title says, I bought a new fish from my LFS and it is unfortunately sick. It’s got a bunch of white dots on it (pic below). I called the store I bought it from and they said they have been struggling with velvet and that is likely what it is. They looked at the pic in store and confirmed velvet and gave me cuprion (I think?) copper to treat it and I have been QT and treating my fish for 6 days now and they all are doing well, and there are no longer spots on the sick fish. Which brings me to yesterday where I showed another LFS owner the picture and he said it was ick for sure… so now I’m confused, could someone please ID? Thanks.

The spots look more like Ich to me. In any case, the treatment of velvet vs ich is still the same. The fish has quite thick mucus (at least seems that way in the picture) - is it breathing ok, etc? What copper level are you using - and which test kit? It is quite hard to dose copper properly without levels - especially in tanks with rock, etc (which it looks like you have?)

 

[Salamander-Hime]

The spots look more like Ich to me. In any case, the treatment of velvet vs ich is still the same. The fish has quite thick mucus (at least seems that way in the picture) - is it breathing ok, etc? What copper level are you using - and which test kit? It is quite hard to dose copper properly without levels - especially in tanks with rock, etc (which it looks like you have?)

I thought ich too, as for the mucus, I can’t really tell as I’ve never seen it before, I’ll attach another video. It seems to be breathing and acting normal so far. I’m dosing 0.20 ppm (following bottles instructions) and I’m bringing water in to my LFS to check copper levels. They are actually in a QT bucket right now with an air stone and heater while I am dosing the copper.

 

[Waters]

I also think Ich, but the question is did the LFS tell you they were struggling with Velvet before they sold you the fish? If not, I think I would be looking for another LFS

 

[AydenLincoln]

I definitely think it’s ich and quarantine will be 30 days with cooper treatment of 2.5 ppm. And since that looks like the main display you should fallow it for 76 days and treat all the fish. @Jay Hemdal Thoughts?

 

[Salamander-Hime]

I also think Ich, but the question is did the LFS tell you they were struggling with Velvet before they sold you the fish? If not, I think I would be looking for another LFS

Nope they didnt unfortunately Luckily I found a way better store recently that has told me some eye opening things about the other store..... if the situation wasnt already enough to make me never want to go back ;p

 

[Salamander-Hime]

I definitely think it’s ich and quarantine will be 30 days with cooper treatment of 2.5 ppm. And since that looks like the main display you should fallow it for 76 days and treat all the fish. @Jay Hemdal Thoughts?

Ah shoot. Owner at my new store only said 2-3 weeks, but it will always be in the tank. I’m guessing I should invest in a QT tank then? It doesn’t feel good to keep the little guys in a bucket for that long?

 

[Salamander-Hime]

Photo of the little guy today

 

[Sharkbait19]

Glad to see it’s cleared up - definitely ich and definitely best to treat in qt. I’m not sure what the therapeutic level is for Cuprion - so dosing according to the bottle would work - I’m sure Jay can answer that though.
When dosing copper to the dt, it gets absorbed by the rocks. This makes dosing difficult, as you will be constantly fighting to keep it up. This also becomes challenging because the rocks and sand will eventually leach the copper back out, becoming toxic to corals and inverts.

 

[AydenLincoln]

Ah shoot. Owner at my new store only said 2-3 weeks, but it will always be in the tank. I’m guessing I should invest in a QT tank then? It doesn’t feel good to keep the little guys in a bucket for that long?

Yes. So you can choose ich management over eradication. Which is treating the one fish that’s sick with cooper in quarantine. Management is good feeding habits, a UV sterilizer, and vitamins. But one stressful event…one power outage and ich will flare up on all your fish and has the potential to kill everything. Cooper should be in quarantine tank with an air stone because it’s not reef and invert safe and once you add into the display there’s no getting it out.

 

[Salamander-Hime]

Yes. So you can choose ich management over eradication. Which is treating the one fish that’s sick with cooped in quarantine. Management is good feeding habits, a UV sterilizer, and vitamins. But one stressful event…one power outage and ich will flare up on all your fish and has the potential to kill everything. Cooper should be in quarantine tank with an air stone because it’s not reef and invert safe and once you add into the display there’s no getting it out.

Okay I think I understand now, I think I will try the management option first, as I dont really have extra money for a whole new QT setup right now aside from just the bucket they're in right now. If theres another flare up though I will totally go the eradication route. I saw in the forum on fallow periods that all but one kind of ich only have a 7-14 theront release stage. So could my ich be cured from my tank in only 3 weeks if its not that specific type?

 

[AydenLincoln]

Okay I think I understand now, I think I will try the management option first, as I dont really have extra money for a whole new QT setup right now aside from just the bucket they're in right now. If theres another flare up though I will totally go the eradication route. I saw in the forum on fallow periods that all but one kind of ich only have a 7-14 theront release stage. So could my ich be cured from my tank in only 3 weeks if its not that specific type?

Oh well a bucket can be a QT too. Or a simple small glass aquarium bare bottom from Petco with some cheap PVC or plastic decorations for the fish to hide in and a heater. You just manage it with regular water changes.

 

[SteamReef]

Okay I think I understand now, I think I will try the management option first, as I dont really have extra money for a whole new QT setup right now aside from just the bucket they're in right now. If theres another flare up though I will totally go the eradication route. I saw in the forum on fallow periods that all but one kind of ich only have a 7-14 theront release stage. So could my ich be cured from my tank in only 3 weeks if its not that specific type?

The ideal minimum fallow period is 45 days or about seven weeks. Studies have shown that some strains of ich can live up to 76 days without fish; hence, some people prefer doing 76 days to make sure. But the 45 days fallow should take care of most ich strains.

 

[Salamander-Hime]

Oh well a bucket can be a QT too. Or a simple small glass aquarium bare bottom from Petco with some cheap PVC or plastic decorations for the fish to hide in and a heater. You just manage it with regular water changes.

Okay awesome, Ill look into getting one today. Would it need a filter too? Also how often would we be looking at water changes in say a 10 gallon with and without filtration? Also how do I keep the new water healthy for the tank since its not cycled? would Stability by Seachem be enough.

 

[Sharkbait19]

Okay I think I understand now, I think I will try the management option first, as I dont really have extra money for a whole new QT setup right now aside from just the bucket they're in right now. If theres another flare up though I will totally go the eradication route. I saw in the forum on fallow periods that all but one kind of ich only have a 7-14 theront release stage. So could my ich be cured from my tank in only 3 weeks if its not that specific type?

45 is the shortest observed time I know of - of course, when you don’t know what strain you have you need to assume it’s longer. 60 works well - I go 76 just to be very safe.
Qt can be as simple as a 10 gallon tank with some pvc pipes, a hang on back filter (and sponge filter) and a heater. Overall cheaper than having to replace fish.

 

[Sharkbait19]

Okay awesome, Ill look into getting one today. Would it need a filter too? Also how often would we be looking at water changes in say a 10 gallon with and without filtration? Also how do I keep the new water healthy for the tank since its not cycled? would Stability by Seachem be enough.

Getting some bottled bacteria helps, but it’s easiest to grab filter media from the display tank - it has loads of bacteria already there (just don’t reuse it in the dt after quarantine). Water changes depends on the stocking and how you need to control ammonia - keep checking params and clean as needed (redosing meds according to how much water was changed).

 

[Salamander-Hime]

Getting some bottled bacteria helps, but it’s easiest to grab filter media from the display tank - it has loads of bacteria already there (just don’t reuse it in the dt after quarantine). Water changes depends on the stocking and how you need to control ammonia - keep checking params and clean as needed (redosing meds according to how much water was changed).

My DT currently has a spike in the nitrates and nitrites right now, would it still be safe to use the filter media from that tank? I wouldnt feel comfortable putting the fish in the tank right now even if they could go back since the colors were off the charts on my API test. Weird too cause it seems like it came out of nowhere.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hey everyone… As the title says, I bought a new fish from my LFS and it is unfortunately sick. It’s got a bunch of white dots on it (pic below). I called the store I bought it from and they said they have been struggling with velvet and that is likely what it is. They looked at the pic in store and confirmed velvet and gave me cuprion (I think?) copper to treat it and I have been QT and treating my fish for 6 days now and they all are doing well, and there are no longer spots on the sick fish. Which brings me to yesterday where I showed another LFS owner the picture and he said it was ick for sure… so now I’m confused, could someone please ID? Thanks.

Based on size of dots and coverage- It is ich and I would not rely on a bucket which is limited to light, filter abilities and and ability to provide hiding, etc
As simple as a starter kit from walmart has most of the essential needed for QT and will pay off in the long run.
Treat with Coppersafe or Copper Power at therapeutic level 2.25-2.5 For a FULL 30 days (do not interrupt this 30 day period) monitored by a reliable Copper Test kit such as Hanna Brand- No API brand. Also monitor Ammonia levels while in quarantine with a reliable test kit and add aeration during treatment using an air stone.
The display tank will have to be kept fishless (FALLOW) for 6-8 weeks to assure the existing parasites go through their life cycle without a host fish and die off

 

[vetteguy53081]

My DT currently has a spike in the nitrates and nitrites right now, would it still be safe to use the filter media from that tank? I wouldnt feel comfortable putting the fish in the tank right now even if they could go back since the colors were off the charts on my API test. Weird too cause it seems like it came out of nowhere.

When medicating you can use media but NO carbon. Water change is essential prior to medicating

 

[Grootzilla]

Jeez glad you found a better lfs. Very sketchy of them to sell you a fish they know is infected