ICH or Velvet?

[Poriferabob]

Hey everyone. I've never really been able to distinguish ich or velvet. Any help is appreciated. Best angles towards the end of the clip.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Can’t see video on phone but with ick, you generally count the dots. With velvet... it looks like the solar system with gold dust coloration at an angle

 

[Poriferabob]

Can’t see video on phone but with ick, you generally count the dots. With velvet... it looks like the solar system with gold dust coloration at an angle

 

[Poriferabob]

Lighting and coloration are making it hard to get good stills. It kind of looks like a little of both of those descriptions I guess. So I’m thinking Velvet. Or a really bad case/stage of the ich life cycle.

 

[hds4216]

@Jay Hemdal

 

[maddiesmom]

If you can count the spots it's ich, too many to count it's velvet.
How long has your tang had it?
My powder brown has ich (which in my opinion is what yours has) and we're treating him with hyposalinity. All parasites are now lying on the bottom of the hospital tank and he's completely clear.

 

[Poriferabob]

additional information. I've had the Achilles for almost four months now. Initially went into QT and looked fine. Upon moving it to my display I placed it in a isolation box for a week to be able to adjust without aggression from other tangs. Looked fine for that week. After release from the "box" the aggression that did ensue seemed to cause an out break of whatever this is. (Initially i did think ich). Achilles was caught and QTd again with copper. Only for 5 days however, as it seemed to be extremely stressed. Moved from 10 gallon with copper to a 40 breeder with no medication. Just solo fish in 40 breeder with lots of feeding. (Its had a GREAT appetite pretty much this entire time).
Yesterday, I decided it was eating well and I would put it back in the 180. I acclimated and as soon as I dropped it in, I noticed it was covered in spots. I'm assuming the spots have been back for a while, but because the 40 it was in was dimly lit, I totally overlooked this.
I was under the impression that velvet is very contagious and kills rapidly.
Considering this has been ongoing for some time now isn't that another point for ICH? what about the other fish in the display? as of now, no one seems to be ill. I do know that my system has had ich in the past. But any out break has been short lived.

 

[Arabyps]

The treatment is the same for ich and velvet. Velvet is a rapid killer so time is of the essence.

TANK TERROR: Identifying And Treating Marine Velvet

The reef aquarium hobby is not for the faint of heart. Maintaining a complex ecosystem can be a daunting task with many variables in play that all have effect on one another. However, beyond the effort to maintain the ecosystem and address common...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[h2so4hurts]

The treatment is the same for ich and velvet. Velvet is a rapid killer so time is of the essence.

TANK TERROR: Identifying And Treating Marine Velvet

The reef aquarium hobby is not for the faint of heart. Maintaining a complex ecosystem can be a daunting task with many variables in play that all have effect on one another. However, beyond the effort to maintain the ecosystem and address common...

www.reef2reef.com

Exactly, get it in copper or chloroquine ASAP.

 

[Poriferabob]

Exactly, get it in copper or chloroquine ASAP.

10-4. Been back in since yesterday. Trying to add cautiously/slowly though as Ive also read a lot about Achilles not tolerating copper (cupramine in my case) well. Working on getting my vet to write CP script but didn't want to wait.

 

[hds4216]

10-4. Been back in since yesterday. Trying to add cautiously/slowly though as Ive also read a lot about Achilles not tolerating copper (cupramine in my case) well. Working on getting my vet to write CP script but didn't want to wait.

If it's velvet I wouldn't take longer than 48 hours to get it to therapeutic levels.

 

[Poriferabob]

Just out of curiosity, any other opinions on which it is? I see Maddiesmom is voting ich.
Google searches seem to provide the information everyone is providing above but it still seems rare to get a confident diagnosis.
For those of you following, what do you see?

 

[ryshark]

additional information. I've had the Achilles for almost four months now. Initially went into QT and looked fine. Upon moving it to my display I placed it in a isolation box for a week to be able to adjust without aggression from other tangs. Looked fine for that week. After release from the "box" the aggression that did ensue seemed to cause an out break of whatever this is. (Initially i did think ich). Achilles was caught and QTd again with copper. Only for 5 days however, as it seemed to be extremely stressed. Moved from 10 gallon with copper to a 40 breeder with no medication. Just solo fish in 40 breeder with lots of feeding. (Its had a GREAT appetite pretty much this entire time).
Yesterday, I decided it was eating well and I would put it back in the 180. I acclimated and as soon as I dropped it in, I noticed it was covered in spots. I'm assuming the spots have been back for a while, but because the 40 it was in was dimly lit, I totally overlooked this.
I was under the impression that velvet is very contagious and kills rapidly.
Considering this has been ongoing for some time now isn't that another point for ICH? what about the other fish in the display? as of now, no one seems to be ill. I do know that my system has had ich in the past. But any out break has been short lived.

Sounds to me like Ich, if it was velvet the other fish in your display would probably have issues too. If you keep pulling it out of display and putting into a QT and then back into the display you’re going to have this same problem over and over again until the Achilles finally gets so stressed and dies. The ich in the main display is always going to be there, the other fish don’t show symptoms because they aren’t stressed and have a better immune system.

 

[Poriferabob]

Sounds to me like Ich, if it was velvet the other fish in your display would probably have issues too. If you keep pulling it out of display and putting into a QT and then back into the display you’re going to have this same problem over and over again until the Achilles finally gets so stressed and dies. The ich in the main display is always going to be there, the other fish don’t show symptoms because they aren’t stressed and have a better immune system.

This is inline with my thoughts at this point.
Fortunately, I have a move in my near future and will be able to keep my DT fallow at that time. Until then however, assuming it makes it through this Cupramine treatment, its back to the 40 breeder. (which also will remain fallow right now)

 

[Arabyps]

There is no simple answer to this. Your DT has disease (most likely ich as velvet would have killed al of them by now) and the Achilles (as are other tangs) are very susceptible. Safest course of action is 76 day fallow period to rid the tank of ich and treat the fish in QT.

 

[ryshark]

This is inline with my thoughts at this point.
Fortunately, I have a move in my near future and will be able to keep my DT fallow at that time. Until then however, assuming it makes it through this Cupramine treatment, its back to the 40 breeder. (which also will remain fallow right now)

Depending on when your upcoming move is, I don’t know how long it’s going to survive in a 40 with copper.
What I would do is going to be controversial but it’s what I did with an Achilles and a 180.
I would have left it in the display, rearranged all the rocks and then lights out until the next day. Then feed very heavy with whatever it loved to eat in QT and have a nori clip in the tank. Also lots of flow and 24/ protein skimmer.