Ich outliving a 78 day fallow period?

Gweeds1980

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Hi all, been a while since I posted!
I'm helping a friend out with his ich battle... We've been through everything and we're pretty confident we have a strain of ich which has managed to survive 78 days without fish.

We didn't have a diagnosis via gill scrapes, but having seen a lot of fish with ich between us we're 99.9% sure that's what we're dealing with.

Fish (3 tangs) were all placed into one of the display tanks - a reefer 170, all LR / sand etc was removed and this was sacrificed as a QT. A new reefer 350 would be replacing it as a new display. The QT was dosed with cupramine to 0.5ppm over 48.hours. The infected display (reefer 250) was left fallow for 78 days, the new reefer 350 was set up and cycled. Nothing in the QT to absorb copper - regular testing and dosing (twice per day copper test, using seachem test kits) as far as we know the tank NEVER fell below 0.5ppm. in fact, the copper rose following WCs and was up at 0.7ppm at one point, then dropped to 0.6 and was maintained there for 40 days. Copper was then removed.

The QT was in a different room and absolutely no equipment was switched between the QT and the displays. He was clinical about it... He'd lost all his other fish to ich following going away on holiday - which prompted the need to eradicate initially.

All fish went back into the displays on day 80. Only one fish, a Kole Tang went into the old display (reefer 250). The others all went into the new display (reefer 350).

Within a couple of days the Kole Tang had ich spots back... The other two tangs which went into the brand new set up have showed no signs of ich whatsoever for over 2 weeks.

We can't see what else it could be other than a strain of ich which has survived 78 days fallow... Any thoughts?
 

Darth.Daddy12

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Did you raise the temperature of the tank? Did you run hypo salinity? What was setup on the tank for filtration? Waterflow? Are these things still on that tank? Depending on the temperature 78 days is just reaching the end of a full possible life cycle of some ick as it can lay in reproductive phase for up to 72 days. Add to that 1 day hactch and 7 day life as adult parasite and you may have not gone line enough.

The only reason to go follow is cause you’re going to increase temperatures to 85* or so and reduce salinity to say .015. But these aggressively speed up the life cycle reducing the full term to 14 days or so.

Could be as simple as you litteraly missed the timing by a day or two too early or that there is equipment where the parrisite has been living all this time that didn’t get sterilized. Possibly both. Copper only is a treatment for the adult parisite while on a host which is only a 3-7 day period or while the parrisite is free swimming which is only 24h max anyways. The egg can sit for 72 days with no effects. There isn’t need to run Cooper in a tank the entire time. Only a couple days a couple times during the entire process most importantly the beginning and end phases..
 
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Gweeds1980

Gweeds1980

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Did you raise the temperature of the tank? Did you run hypo salinity? What was setup on the tank for filtration? Waterflow? Are these things still on that tank? Depending on the temperature 78 days is just reaching the end of a full possible life cycle of some ick as it can lay in reproductive phase for up to 72 days. Add to that 1 day hactch and 7 day life as adult parasite and you may have not gone line enough.

The only reason to go follow is cause you’re going to increase temperatures to 85* or so and reduce salinity to say .015. But these aggressively speed up the life cycle reducing the full term to 14 days or so.

Could be as simple as you litteraly missed the timing by a day or two too early or that there is equipment where the parrisite has been living all this time that didn’t get sterilized. Possibly both. Copper only is a treatment for the adult parisite while on a host which is only a 3-7 day period or while the parrisite is free swimming which is only 24h max anyways. The egg can sit for 72 days with no effects. There isn’t need to run Cooper in a tank the entire time. Only a couple days a couple times during the entire process most importantly the beginning and end phases..
Thanks for your reply - I've taken lots of fish through this process before and it has ALWAYS eradicated ich. The 30 days copper treatment eradicates the ich on the fish (once it becomes free swimming) and I've seen no evidence of ich surviving more than 72 days before releasing tomites. Tomites die within 48 hours if no host is found, I then add 2 days to be sure and normally go with 76 days fallow as per humbles recommendations. Filtration, flow etc is irrelevant in a tank that is fallow or in a QT where copper is maintained at above 0.5ppm ionic copper.
 

Darth.Daddy12

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Thanks for your reply - I've taken lots of fish through this process before and it has ALWAYS eradicated ich. The 30 days copper treatment eradicates the ich on the fish (once it becomes free swimming) and I've seen no evidence of ich surviving more than 72 days before releasing tomites. Tomites die within 48 hours if no host is found, I then add 2 days to be sure and normally go with 76 days fallow as per humbles recommendations. Filtration, flow etc is irrelevant in a tank that is fallow or in a QT where copper is maintained at above 0.5ppm ionic copper.
It’s bit irrelevant if it’s in the filter lol.. you asked for help then downgrade someone trying to help? Smh
 

EmdeReef

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Hi all, been a while since I posted!
I'm helping a friend out with his ich battle... We've been through everything and we're pretty confident we have a strain of ich which has managed to survive 78 days without fish.

We didn't have a diagnosis via gill scrapes, but having seen a lot of fish with ich between us we're 99.9% sure that's what we're dealing with.

Fish (3 tangs) were all placed into one of the display tanks - a reefer 170, all LR / sand etc was removed and this was sacrificed as a QT. A new reefer 350 would be replacing it as a new display. The QT was dosed with cupramine to 0.5ppm over 48.hours. The infected display (reefer 250) was left fallow for 78 days, the new reefer 350 was set up and cycled. Nothing in the QT to absorb copper - regular testing and dosing (twice per day copper test, using seachem test kits) as far as we know the tank NEVER fell below 0.5ppm. in fact, the copper rose following WCs and was up at 0.7ppm at one point, then dropped to 0.6 and was maintained there for 40 days. Copper was then removed.

The QT was in a different room and absolutely no equipment was switched between the QT and the displays. He was clinical about it... He'd lost all his other fish to ich following going away on holiday - which prompted the need to eradicate initially.

All fish went back into the displays on day 80. Only one fish, a Kole Tang went into the old display (reefer 250). The others all went into the new display (reefer 350).

Within a couple of days the Kole Tang had ich spots back... The other two tangs which went into the brand new set up have showed no signs of ich whatsoever for over 2 weeks.

We can't see what else it could be other than a strain of ich which has survived 78 days fallow... Any thoughts?


Some strains can survive longer especially if there are hypoxic areas.

The temperature relationship isn’t linear so I wouldn’t see that as an issue.

Did you add absolutely anything wet to the 250 during the fallow period?
 
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Gweeds1980

Gweeds1980

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Some strains can survive longer especially if there are hypoxic areas.

The temperature relationship isn’t linear so I wouldn’t see that as an issue.

Did you add absolutely anything wet to the 250 during the fallow period?
Nothing whatsoever added, was very, very careful here. No anoxic areas in the tank - bare bottom, open scape with relatively slim LR pieces, lots of flow, well oxygenated with an oversized skimmer.
 
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