Ich? ProziPro DT treatment? Tangs not looking so good

[doozie]

About a week ago, I added paired clowns, which didn't bother anyone other fish. Recently, they have started to explore the tank. However, they seem to be peaceful. It's just that our three tangs (blue hippo, tomini, and sailfin) seemed to have been affected since their introduction. It appears to be black ich, but not sure.

I was thinking of adding ProziPro directly to the tank -- not sure if corals or inverts would be affected. I can set up a QT, but it will be next to impossible to catch all three, and leaving them in a 10-gal is also probably not the best idea.

Could really use some help with diagnosis and suggestions. Thank you.

 

[vetteguy53081]

About a week ago, I added paired clowns, which didn't bother anyone other fish. Recently, they have started to explore the tank. However, they seem to be peaceful. It's just that our three tangs (blue hippo, tomini, and sailfin) seemed to have been affected since their introduction. It appears to be black ich, but not sure.

I was thinking of adding ProziPro directly to the tank -- not sure if corals or inverts would be affected. I can set up a QT, but it will be next to impossible to catch all three, and leaving them in a 10-gal is also probably not the best idea.

Could really use some help with diagnosis and suggestions. Thank you.

Need pics under white lighting as its hard to make out dots on darker fish but the sailfin may have black ich which are
turbellarian worms and likely the Paravortex version which are smaller and appear as grains of black spots
These worms have a single host life cycle producing several juveniles which can last up to 30 days but rarely do. Best is to treat with Praziquantel better known as prazi pro for two 8 day intervals with a water change on day 9.
other option is formalin based medication such as quick cure or ruby Rally Pro starting with a bath for 45 minutes followed by treatment. A 5 minute freshwater dip same temp as display tank will offer temporary relief in many cases
Do note that Prazi will lower both oxygen and appetite, so an airstone is recommended for added aeration and monitor water quality during treatment with a reliable test kit.
Please post pics to confirm if the other two have the same.
Seeing the eye on the hepatus tang, this can also be flukes. With flukes, there is often labored breathing, scratching, darting, loss of appetite, and lethargic behavior.

 

[doozie]

Thank you. Appreciate all the details. What percentage water change do you recommend on each day-9 round? Will ProziPro also help with the flukes you mentioned?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

About a week ago, I added paired clowns, which didn't bother anyone other fish. Recently, they have started to explore the tank. However, they seem to be peaceful. It's just that our three tangs (blue hippo, tomini, and sailfin) seemed to have been affected since their introduction. It appears to be black ich, but not sure.

I was thinking of adding ProziPro directly to the tank -- not sure if corals or inverts would be affected. I can set up a QT, but it will be next to impossible to catch all three, and leaving them in a 10-gal is also probably not the best idea.

Could really use some help with diagnosis and suggestions. Thank you.

The photos don't clearly show exactly what is going on here. The sailfin tang has diffuse black spots, but black ich, (Turbellarians) form more discrete black spots. When you see this sort of diffusion, it is generally caused by a tissue reaction in the fish's skin to some parasite, possibly ich in this case. I don't see anything definitive on the tomini. The hepatus has some minor fin damage and the spots are white, so again, it could be ich.

Black ich and flukes can kill fish, but the disease prgression is slower. If it is ich, the spots can increase in numbers more quickly, and can overtake the fish in ten days or so.

If you can supply other pictures under whiter light, and perhaps some short videos, the diagnosis may be clearer for us (but not always!).

Jay

 

[doozie]

It appears much worse under white light. Please see attached. Hope these images help and there's a clearer diagnosis and potential solution. Thank you all very much.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

It appears much worse under white light. Please see attached. Hope these images help and there's a clearer diagnosis and potential solution. Thank you all very much.

These new pics look like marine ich, Cryptocaryon. Prazipro will not help with that. Your two best treatments would be coppersafe or hyposalinity (low salinity). Neither of those options will work if invertebrates are present during treatment, and copper should not be used in aquariums with carbonate materials (like coral rock or sand) as those material will absorb the copper.

Jay

 

[doozie]

Hmm, that makes it incredibly difficult. So, you're saying either I need to pull all Tangs out and squeeze them into a 10-gal QT or let them all die? What is a realistic solution? Should I assume non-Tangs are affected? Can I treat one fish at a time, or is time not on my side? Again, it seems to be only affecting the Tangs, but this is new to me. I have 100-gal mixed reef tank with inverts and corals. Please provide real and direct advice on how you might approach this scenario.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hmm, that makes it incredibly difficult. So, you're saying either I need to pull all Tangs out and squeeze them into a 10-gal QT or let them all die? What is a realistic solution? Should I assume non-Tangs are affected? Can I treat one fish at a time, or is time not on my side? Again, it seems to be only affecting the Tangs, but this is new to me. I have 100-gal mixed reef tank with inverts and corals. Please provide real and direct advice on how you might approach this scenario.

Unfortunately, there isn't always an easy solution to treat fish diseases. There simply may not be a effective way for you to treat this given the resources you have. You'll need to treat all of the fish at once, and leave your display tank fallow of all fish for 60 days for the ich parasite to die out. A ten gallon tank is too small to do this of course.

When faced with not having a suitable treatment tank, you have three options: choose to lose the fish, lose the invertebrates or attempt "ich management".

The latter is what you'll need to focus on, but be forewarned, it often fails. The reason that it exists as a technique at all is because people find themselves in situations like this and are desperate to try anything.

The basic idea is to reduce the infective propagules (tomites) of the ich parasite to the point where the fish's acquired immunity can fight the infection off. This is done through a series of techniques for stress reduction and tomite limiting. Unfortunately, the ich tomites themselves cause stress to the fish, so if the fish have more than 30 or so trophonts on them, the method often fails.

1) Install a powerful UV sterilizer on the aquarium.
2) Ensure that the fish's diet and water quality are the best you can make them.
3) Keep the water temperature close to 78 degrees F.
4) Siphon off the tank floor nightly to remove as many tomonts as possible.
5) Try a proprietary "reef safe" marine ich medications. These rarely cure ich infections on their own, but some may have benefit when combined with other management methods. Polyp Lab Medic is one people have found works o.k. Many of the others are just "snake oil".
6) Employ strong external filtration, that can help reduce the number of free swimming tomites in the water. In the old days, people used diatom filters to do this.

Jay

 

[doozie]

Thank you very much, Jay. I appreciate your guidance immensely. Unfortunately, the negative effects have started overnight, with our Tomini in very bad shape and now in QT, with recovery not expected. I did have some Poly Medic and have started their stronger recommended dosage last night (and again this morning). I might have made an error also mixing ProziPro along with it into the tank to affect the Tonimi so quickly, as it was the least noticeable of Ich on the Tangs. I'm running the skimmer really low for oxygenation.

I'll continue to take it fish-by-fish and try to get out and save a few, possibly go scoop up a larger QT tank at a nearby LFS, but some fish, such as a dottyback will be impossible to catch. The malanarus in the tank is feeding off the Salifin at this point. Thinking more through this, I'm not sure if the new clowns were the issue or possibly two new emeralds from Petco with a potential dirty water spill.

Ugh, this is painful to watch after 7 years. Lesson learned to ALWAYS copper treat in the future. Again, many thanks for your recommendations and time in responding.