Ich returns after fallow... suggestions?

[Paul B]

and some theronts never go out into the water column.

Jay, I haven't heard that some theronts never go into the water and I find that interesting. They must breed some time but I don't know. If they never go into the water column, how will fallow work?

I have used a diatom filter for decades and so far have never found it not to work. But the OP already used fallow with medication and I feel the fish are already weakened from all of that. As I posted I found the tank to bare and hiding places will help but of course not cure anything.

I feel a diatom filter by itself is the best method for removing or severely lessening the amounts of any life form larger than a bacteria as long as it is used correctly. If it is used in conjunction with copper, something I have done but I don't like to use it, it will eliminate any solid pathogen in a very short time.

In the 70s I experimented with using Quinacrine hydrocloride and Chloroquine phosphate as per "Edward Kingsford, MD Treatment of Exotic Marine Fish Diseases" 1975.

But I found them inadequate alone. I discovered on my own that if I mixed the recommended dose of copper "in conjunction" with the Quinicrine ( 8- 10 mg/gal) I got "cure" or at least no visible signs of disease in a little over 24 hours. But I left the fish in there for 10 days.

I used that mixture on my tank and a few aquarium stores and it always worked. Those are as you know old medications and maybe the Chloricrine is better if not the same thing. I don't know.

The quinicrine will stay with the fish for a week or so as the fish may get a slight yellow tinge which is good. Those medications are affected by light so the tank needs to be slightly darkened for a few days.

But being prescription drugs for malaria ( a similar parasite) I can't get it any more and luckily I have not needed it.

Jay, I realize these things are old school, but I am old and I feel that lately we have gotten away from the early medications that worked so well and still work with malaria. I am familiar with them because they gave me chloroquine and primaquine in Viet Nam. Now we find those drugs gave us PTSD,Tinnitus, vertigo, depression and an entire host of other things but I don't think PTSD would affect a fish that much.

 

[CakeOrCrayons]

Quick AM update- Lt. tang has a few more spots, and purple tang has two spots as well. Yellow and vlamingi have fins starting to become cloudy... Everybody ate well, no flashing or scratching

I appreciate all the feedback so far, and am leaning towards dosing the DT with CP or running hypo in the DT for ich eradication. I will remove inverts today and tomorrow to get fish treated ASAP.

Should I remove the rocks and/or marinepure and replace with PVC for hiding places? Would this benefit the CP treatment by inhibiting some biodegradation? Or leave the rock inside the tank?

What should I do with the Chaeto?

Any suggestions are most appreciated

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

Edited

 

[Dom]

Tank ran at 80 degrees during the fallow, and nothing wet was added. I read the sticky at the top of this forum and opted to go for 50 instead of 45. In retrospect it may have been better to wait longer.

Yes. Please do all you can to resist the urge to rush. There is an expression in this hobby; "nothing good ever happens fast".

When you think of all the time you've spent going through the fallow period and now, the reoccurrence of Ich, a lot of time that could have gone toward tank progress is now consumed with tank healing.

But PLEASE, don't beat yourself up. We've all had to contend with the excitement of getting a beautiful tank up and running and the urge to rush it. The lesson you've learned here will go a long way in your future success!

 

[Uncle99]

I stick with 72-76 days at normal everything.
It’s never let me down, excessive some say, but for me, effective.

 

[Lionfish hunter]

It would be easier to quarantine your inverts, raise the temp to 81, and do hypo in your display for 45 days.

 

[Tamberav]

Sorry this happened. I did 45 days at 81 and it was successful. I turkey blasted the rocks and stirred the sand. For treatment of my fish.. I did hybrid TTM.

I did dose a small 7g tank with live rock with CP years ago. It was a observation tank for a springer damsel that ended up showing signs of illness. All the micro algae died and any snails I missed. A hermit crab I missed lived but didn’t move until the treatment was over. Not sure how he lived.

Since it was 7g, I just changed the water to remove the med and put some carbon in the filter. I eventually turned that tank into a small display with a mix of corals, even SPS and it had the same rock in it. Nothing was negatively effected. I didn’t seem like CP was leeching like copper.

 

[CakeOrCrayons]

It would be easier to quarantine your inverts, raise the temp to 81, and do hypo in your display for 45 days.

Has anyone else tried this and had success? I would rather do hypo than CP, but unsure about success rate

 

[Lionfish hunter]

I put cupramine in my display a few months ago. 30 days at .5. It was difficult keeping the level up with the rock and sand, had to add daily. It was no fun draining the tank, doing a 100% water change, and taking out a huge lionfish while i cleaned out the entire tank. It did the trick, but if i had to try again it would be hypo. I am also worried about long term effects of dosing copper that long. I have no personal experience with hypo, just what the internet says. Just be careful raising the salinity afterwards, go very very slow.

 

[Lionfish hunter]

Sorry this happened. I did 45 days at 81 and it was successful. I turkey blasted the rocks and stirred the sand. For treatment of my fish.. I did hybrid TTM.

I did dose a small 7g tank with live rock with CP years ago. It was a observation tank for a springer damsel that ended up showing signs of illness. All the micro algae died and any snails I missed. A hermit crab I missed lived but didn’t move until the treatment was over. Not sure how he lived.

Since it was 7g, I just changed the water to remove the med and put some carbon in the filter. I eventually turned that tank into a small display with a mix of corals, even SPS and it had the same rock in it. Nothing was negatively effected. I didn’t seem like CP was leeching like copper.

i had a hermit crab survive hidden in my overflow after 30 days of cupramine!

 

[ctopherl]

Hey all,

I recently finished a 50 day fallow period and it appears ich has returned in my DT. Today (day 7 after adding fish back into the tank) I noticed spots on my lieutenant tang that are symptomatic of ich. My assumption is that ich remained in the DT during the fallow. All fish were QT'd with chloroquine phosphate, treated with API general cure, then transferred to different sterile observation tanks with black mollies for 30 days. The fish looked great, ate great, and showed no signs of parasite or disease during observational QT.

I am looking for suggestions on how to proceed and successfully eradicate ich from my DT. I dont want to go the ich management route.

My options:

1: Another 45 day or longer fallow. Move fish to QT and treat with Chloroquine Phosphate
2: Move snails/inverts to QT, soak rockwork in RODI in brute bins to kill ich, and treat fish and DT with Chloroquine Phosphate
3: Fully drain the DT, let dry for 72 hours, fill with new saltwater, replace inverts, and pay LFS to QT fish in copper power
4: Remove inverts and run hyposalinity in the DT with fish for 30+ days
5: Another option?

Current fish:
Yellow Tang
Purple Tang
Lt. Tang
Vlamingi tang
Bristletooth tang
Cleaner wrasse
2 Clownfish
2 lawnmower blennies

Current inverts:
7 red fire shrimp
Assorted astrea and turbo snails

Other info:
Tank was ghost fed once/day during fallow to feed the bacterial cycle
Started tank in November 2020
Bare bottom, no sand
275-280 gallon DT with 2 trigger CR44 sumps
Running skimmer, refugeum/chaeto, copapods and marinepure
Only 2 coral frags in DT, can be easily removed
Alk: 8.75-9.25
Cal: 465-475
Mag: 1430-1450
Temp: 77-78

Pics below of DT and fuge:

Any suggestions on how you would proceed? What would you do?

Thanks!

-Cake

May be more work than it's worth but if you can remove the coral, inverts, live rock and any "biomedia" (like your bio cubes under chaeto) you might be able to just run copper in your DT for ~30 days? Again lots of work and not ideal, but the alternative is a 76 day fallow period, which is a buzzkill.

For a 50 day fallow period to be effective I believe the temp has to be held at 81F.

 

[Bpfor3]

I have done 76 days and it worked, but one un QT'd frag and it came back. I ran a 150 W UV for 6 months and it kept it knocked down, but if i turned it off it came right back. main culprit was a powder blue tang. He went nuts on me and had to be removed. Since then, no issues. I have always run a 55 W on the tank. I have several other tangs, uncluding Acan tangs, but i think the PB for some reason, kept it going.

 

[Jeepjeep_0]

Go buy an oversized UV Sterilizer. I use an aqua uv and maintain/swap out the bulb per manufacturer recommendations.

I had a bad ich breakout after adding a poorly QT’d fish a while back. I decided to go with the 76 day Fallow method. Set up three additional tanks to house and treat 20+ fish. Followed the QT/Fallow to the letter and was OCD about cross contamination. Fish were treated With cupramine and all signs of ich were gone. Reintroduced the fish over a period of time, still no ich, and a few days later the white spots started popping up again.

After that i Was ready to throw in the towel. Decided to try the UV as a last resort. Installed the aqua uv sterilizer within a week. Some ich white spots came and went over the next month or so but I could tell they were less and less as my powder blue wasnt covered with them. Month to two months later never saw spots again.

UV sterilizer was expensive, but the equipment, medications, salt, RODI filters, power, etc. was probably just as much over the 76 days.

Maybee my fallow period helped reduce the numbers enough that the us sterilizer could handle the rest, that I’m not sure of.

None the less I have a lot of disease free fish. Wish I had just spent the $400 up front to begin with.

While I am still very careful about cross contamination when I bring new livestock in to be QTd, I’ve realized it is next to impossible!!

 

[Saltyanimals]

I too had a potential fallow failure, but not going through the whole QT mess again because I'll likely lose more fish and my own sanity.

There will be some reaction to my next statement, but keep an open mind and research to see if it may be something you would try as an immediate next step before going nuclear. .... H2O2 in tank dosing. There are a few discussions about it and I'm willing to give it the old college try.

I'm only day 3 into it and have not lost anything in a stocked mixed reef..and things now not gotten worst.