Ich, the never ending battle...

[Living_room_fishing]

Hi everyone,

I been reading these forums for a while now and said to myself, why not join in.

Ok here is my ich story. All advice is appreciated.

So I had my set up ready to go with fish in January this year. Like most I never thought about qt tanks until after you have the first outbreak.

I had a water change that was a degree or 2 off one day and the next day my wrasse was covered. Then my 2 Clownfish started to flash, my royal gramma was half covered and my purple tang had 2 spots near the back tail.

The wrasse died. Everyone else was OK while I set up a qt tank.

My qt had hypo salinity and used nox-ich treatment. I also used stress guard.

A week after treatment everything looked great. They have been in my qt tank for 2 months no issue, while my DT is getting a 100 days no fish.

Well today was my lucky day. Ich came back. Only on my female clownfish and 2 spots on my purple tang. Nothing on the royal gramma or male Clown. Also to note I only see the 1 clown flashing a bit.

I have been slowly increasing my salinity up every week, the past few weeks since everything seemed good.

So today I will repeat the treatment again.

I feel this is a battle that can't be won though. They are set to go back after July 11 to my DT if they are healthy.

At this point I'm not sure what to do. Medication is effective but after a while I start from ground zero. I didn't cross contaminate anything. I have 2 different set ups in 2 different rooms of my house.


Few things to note. I have a uv filter on my DT. I use garlic and vita Chem with the dry foods I feed the fish with. Also when I do water changes I have a heater that brings it to the exact temp now.

So at this point idk what to do. Should I just toss in my hat and go to a management approach?

Thanks,

Chris

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi everyone,

I been reading these forums for a while now and said to myself, why not join in.

Ok here is my ich story. All advice is appreciated.

So I had my set up ready to go with fish in January this year. Like most I never thought about qt tanks until after you have the first outbreak.

I had a water change that was a degree or 2 off one day and the next day my wrasse was covered. Then my 2 Clownfish started to flash, my royal gramma was half covered and my purple tang had 2 spots near the back tail.

The wrasse died. Everyone else was OK while I set up a qt tank.

My qt had hypo salinity and used nox-ich treatment. I also used stress guard.

A week after treatment everything looked great. They have been in my qt tank for 2 months no issue, while my DT is getting a 100 days no fish.

Well today was my lucky day. Ich came back. Only on my female clownfish and 2 spots on my purple tang. Nothing on the royal gramma or male Clown. Also to note I only see the 1 clown flashing a bit.

I have been slowly increasing my salinity up every week, the past few weeks since everything seemed good.

So today I will repeat the treatment again.

I feel this is a battle that can't be won though. They are set to go back after July 11 to my DT if they are healthy.

At this point I'm not sure what to do. Medication is effective but after a while I start from ground zero. I didn't cross contaminate anything. I have 2 different set ups in 2 different rooms of my house.


Few things to note. I have a uv filter on my DT. I use garlic and vita Chem with the dry foods I feed the fish with. Also when I do water changes I have a heater that brings it to the exact temp now.

So at this point idk what to do. Should I just toss in my hat and go to a management approach?

Thanks,

Chris

A couple of dots. . . hmm-
Can you post a couple of pics under white lighting to assess and confirm what you have ?
Also, what is your ammonia-ph-nitrate-salinity levels?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi everyone,

I been reading these forums for a while now and said to myself, why not join in.

Ok here is my ich story. All advice is appreciated.

So I had my set up ready to go with fish in January this year. Like most I never thought about qt tanks until after you have the first outbreak.

I had a water change that was a degree or 2 off one day and the next day my wrasse was covered. Then my 2 Clownfish started to flash, my royal gramma was half covered and my purple tang had 2 spots near the back tail.

The wrasse died. Everyone else was OK while I set up a qt tank.

My qt had hypo salinity and used nox-ich treatment. I also used stress guard.

A week after treatment everything looked great. They have been in my qt tank for 2 months no issue, while my DT is getting a 100 days no fish.

Well today was my lucky day. Ich came back. Only on my female clownfish and 2 spots on my purple tang. Nothing on the royal gramma or male Clown. Also to note I only see the 1 clown flashing a bit.

I have been slowly increasing my salinity up every week, the past few weeks since everything seemed good.

So today I will repeat the treatment again.

I feel this is a battle that can't be won though. They are set to go back after July 11 to my DT if they are healthy.

At this point I'm not sure what to do. Medication is effective but after a while I start from ground zero. I didn't cross contaminate anything. I have 2 different set ups in 2 different rooms of my house.


Few things to note. I have a uv filter on my DT. I use garlic and vita Chem with the dry foods I feed the fish with. Also when I do water changes I have a heater that brings it to the exact temp now.

So at this point idk what to do. Should I just toss in my hat and go to a management approach?

Thanks,

Chris

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

What level of hyposalinity did you run at?

Nox Ich and stress guard will not help with treating marine ich (Nox Ich is actually a freshwater formulation, it is salt plus malachite green)

Jay

 

[Living_room_fishing]

I will try to answer everyone.

Ok so my qt tank is a 29 gallon. It's a bit crowded because of the situation.

The nox-ich I noticed after treatment for almost 2 months all symptoms and spots were gone. It seemed at the time it worked.

When I ran the treatment my salinity was 1.012. Over the last few weeks I been slowly bringing it back up to 1.015, which is were it is today.

I have the reef master test kit. These are the results I have.

Nitrate - 10ppm
Phosphate - 0.25ppm
Temperature is holding at 26.2 Celsius

My tank is a bare glass bottle.

Tonight I'm doing a water change.

I had a bacteria bloom last night, so picture will be foggy.

As for the fish, everyone this morning were flashing at some point except the royal gramma. The only one with 2 spots is my purple tang now. I tried to get a picture of her 2 spots but I couldn't get a clear picture.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I will try to answer everyone.

Ok so my qt tank is a 29 gallon. It's a bit crowded because of the situation.

The nox-ich I noticed after treatment for almost 2 months all symptoms and spots were gone. It seemed at the time it worked.

When I ran the treatment my salinity was 1.012. Over the last few weeks I been slowly bringing it back up to 1.015, which is were it is today.

I have the reef master test kit. These are the results I have.

Nitrate - 10ppm
Phosphate - 0.25ppm
Temperature is holding at 26.2 Celsius

My tank is a bare glass bottle.

Tonight I'm doing a water change.

I had a bacteria bloom last night, so picture will be foggy.

As for the fish, everyone this morning were flashing at some point except the royal gramma. The only one with 2 spots is my purple tang now. I tried to get a picture of her 2 spots but I couldn't get a clear picture.

Ah - 1.012 is good for controlling Neobenedenia flukes, but ich treatment requires 1.009

Jay

 

[Living_room_fishing]

Isn't the lowest salinity fish can survive 1.008? Wouldn't running that low of salinity be extremely risky?

Also if I did lower the salinity to 1.009, would medication be needed with it? Or just hypo salinity will be enough?
Chris

 

[Living_room_fishing]

Isn't the lowest salinity fish can survive 1.008? Wouldn't running that low of salinity be extremely risky?

Also if I did lower the salinity to 1.009, would medication be needed with it? Or just hypo salinity will be enough?
Chris

If I ran the salinity at 1.009, how long will it have to remain that low?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Isn't the lowest salinity fish can survive 1.008? Wouldn't running that low of salinity be extremely risky?

Also if I did lower the salinity to 1.009, would medication be needed with it? Or just hypo salinity will be enough?
Chris

Hyposalinity, as with any treatment, is not risk free. 1.009 is the standard target specific gravity to treat ich. One expert even says if it rises to 1.011, you have to restart the 30 day clock. That isn’t quite true, but you do need to stay as close to 1.009 as you can without dropping to 1.008 - this requires a very accurate hydrometer or digital refractometer.
I never treat with other anti protozoans while in hypo, but I sometimes will dose praziquantel at the same time if need be.
Jay

 

[Living_room_fishing]

I have a refractometer I use to measure salinity. It's not digital but it has been calibrated and I trust it's readings.

I will start lowering my salinity back down tonight then. Hopefully by the weekend we are on target to start the 30 day treatment.

Fingers crossed everyone makes it. They seem really healthy and well feed aside from this issue. So I think they can pull through it.

Thanks Jay.

I will post any updates or if an issue comes up.

Chris

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I have a refractometer I use to measure salinity. It's not digital but it has been calibrated and I trust it's readings.

I will start lowering my salinity back down tonight then. Hopefully by the weekend we are on target to start the 30 day treatment.

Fingers crossed everyone makes it. They seem really healthy and well feed aside from this issue. So I think they can pull through it.

Thanks Jay.

I will post any updates or if an issue comes up.

Chris

Good luck!

If I read the messages correctly, you are at 1.015 now? If so, you can go to 1.009 in 24 hours, if you do it in 4 equal drops. The risk in going slower is that it allows any ich to become more active. I've seen people lose fish both to copper and hyposalinity because they went to the target dose too slowly. Remember, you can always drop the salinity of marine fish fairly fast, but when you return to normal salinity, THAT'S when you want to take it slowly.

Re; optical refractometers - I've never been able to get mine to give me the needed resolution to run an effective hypo treatment, I can't see the difference between 1.008 and 1.009 on the units I have. By the same token however, digital refracts give you an easy to read number, so seem more accurate, but may not be. My best device is an old German laboratory glass hydrometer. I use it to calibrate all my other hydrometers.

Jay

 

[Tamberav]

Kinda off topic but crazy enough I had a Copperband and radiant wrasse I ordered show up at 1.006 salinity. The wrasse had swim bladder damage and eventually perished but the Copperband survived just fine. The fish were accidentally bagged from water that had RODI filling it up but not mixed up to the right salinity yet. So they went from 1.020 to 1.006 in one swoop and then shipped overnight to my house.

 

[Living_room_fishing]

Good luck!

If I read the messages correctly, you are at 1.015 now? If so, you can go to 1.009 in 24 hours, if you do it in 4 equal drops. The risk in going slower is that it allows any ich to become more active. I've seen people lose fish both to copper and hyposalinity because they went to the target dose too slowly. Remember, you can always drop the salinity of marine fish fairly fast, but when you return to normal salinity, THAT'S when you want to take it slowly.

Re; optical refractometers - I've never been able to get mine to give me the needed resolution to run an effective hypo treatment, I can't see the difference between 1.008 and 1.009 on the units I have. By the same token however, digital refracts give you an easy to read number, so seem more accurate, but may not be. My best device is an old German laboratory glass hydrometer. I use it to calibrate all my other hydrometers.

Jay

Well I will have to keep an eye on them as I do this. I haven't heard many people who don't swear my refractometers.

I started to drop salinity last night. It's at 1.013 now.

When I get home tonight from work, I will try to get to the target.

You think it will be OK to add vita chem to the water to help them a bit during treatment?

Chris

 

[rmorris_14]

Just to clarify…… I believe… the 30 days countdown starts once you reach hypo AND all visible signs of ich are gone? Correct @Jay Hemdal ?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Well I will have to keep an eye on them as I do this. I haven't heard many people who don't swear my refractometers.

I started to drop salinity last night. It's at 1.013 now.

When I get home tonight from work, I will try to get to the target.

You think it will be OK to add vita chem to the water to help them a bit during treatment?

Chris

I don't add vitachem to the water, the fish don't drink enough water to matter, and then, you're just feeding it to your bacteria.

With hypo, just watch the pH of the water, it will drop faster than you are used to seeing in full seawater.

Jay

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Just to clarify…… I believe… the 30 days countdown starts once you reach hypo AND all visible signs of ich are gone? Correct @Jay Hemdal ?

Yes, that's what I do.

jay

 

[Living_room_fishing]

I don't add vitachem to the water, the fish don't drink enough water to matter, and then, you're just feeding it to your bacteria.

With hypo, just watch the pH of the water, it will drop faster than you are used to seeing in full seawater.

Jay

Update:

The royal gramma kicked the bucket when I got home from work. I had a feeling the gramma wasn't gonna make it. Everyone else is ok. Looking stressed, but I would think it's to be expected.

They are eating still which is good. A little less then they normally do, but still eating.

I have done small water changes to fine tune the water parameters last night and tonight. About 2.5-3 gallon exchanges.

Hopefully I don't come home to more dead fishes.


Chris

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Update:

The royal gramma kicked the bucket when I got home from work. I had a feeling the gramma wasn't gonna make it. Everyone else is ok. Looking stressed, but I would think it's to be expected.

They are eating still which is good. A little less then they normally do, but still eating.

I have done small water changes to fine tune the water parameters last night and tonight. About 2.5-3 gallon exchanges.

Hopefully I don't come home to more dead fishes.


Chris

Sorry to hear. Hosw long have you been at full hypo?

Jay

 

[Living_room_fishing]

Sorry to hear. Hosw long have you been at full hypo?

Jay

Full hypo was since Tuesday morning. I'm counting my 30 days from Wednesday.

The salinity levels tried to creep up to 1.010. It's currently at 1.009.

Everyone ate almost there normal amount of food and is swimming around like they normally do today.

So things look good so far with the others.

Chris

 

[Living_room_fishing]

Sorry to hear. Hosw long have you been at full hypo?

Jay

Hey Jay,

I got a video of my purple tang with that white spot she gets. Sometimes it's 2 beside each other by a quarter inch or so. But they Stat for 1-2 weeks at a time, then they disappear and come back a few weeks later.

You can see the spot around 19 seconds in.

Is this an ich marking? It's always in the same area.

Chris

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hey Jay,

I got a video of my purple tang with that white spot she gets. Sometimes it's 2 beside each other by a quarter inch or so. But they Stat for 1-2 weeks at a time, then they disappear and come back a few weeks later.

You can see the spot around 19 seconds in.

Is this an ich marking? It's always in the same area.

Chris

Sorry, I can't see any spots in the video. From your description, where you say the spots stay in the same position for 1 or 2 weeks, that isn't ich. Typically, by the time an ich trophont is of a size that it can be easily seen, it will only be visible for 72 hours or less. Spots that come and go in different locations every few days is more how ich looks....

Jay