Ich, the never ending battle...

[Living_room_fishing]

Sorry to hear. Hosw long have you been at full hypo?

Jay

Hey Jay,

I got a video of my purple tang with that white spot she gets. Sometimes it's 2 beside each other by a quarter inch or so. But they Stat for 1-2 weeks at a time, then they disappear and come back a few weeks later.

You can see the spot around 19 seconds in

Is this an ich marking? It's always in the same area.

Chris

Sorry, I can't see any spots in the video. From your description, where you say the spots stay in the same position for 1 or 2 weeks, that isn't ich. Typically, by the time an ich trophont is of a size that it can be easily seen, it will only be visible for 72 hours or less. Spots that come and go in different locations every few days is more how ich looks....

Jay

Here is a picture. Might help. I just found it unusual. Ich issues aside.

Chris

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hey Jay,

I got a video of my purple tang with that white spot she gets. Sometimes it's 2 beside each other by a quarter inch or so. But they Stat for 1-2 weeks at a time, then they disappear and come back a few weeks later.

You can see the spot around 19 seconds in

Is this an ich marking? It's always in the same area.

Chris

Here is a picture. Might help. I just found it unusual. Ich issues aside.

Chris

It looks too diffuse to be ich. Tangs (especially hepatus and purple tangs) do develop mucus plugs due to stress. I've scraped these, but have never seen anything but mucus in the scrape. I talk about that a bit in this article (PDF link on the right side)

Mucus - The Slime That Binds

Mucus: The Slime that Binds Jay Hemdal C. 2020 This article examines the various causes of excess mucus coatings on fish, as well as fecal mucus issues. ------------------- The mucus produced by the fish’s epidermal cells gives them their...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

 

[Spare time]

So why are you not using copper?

 

[Living_room_fishing]

It looks too diffuse to be ich. Tangs (especially hepatus and purple tangs) do develop mucus plugs due to stress. I've scraped these, but have never seen anything but mucus in the scrape. I talk about that a bit in this article (PDF link on the right side)

Mucus - The Slime That Binds

Mucus: The Slime that Binds Jay Hemdal C. 2020 This article examines the various causes of excess mucus coatings on fish, as well as fecal mucus issues. ------------------- The mucus produced by the fish’s epidermal cells gives them their...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

Thanks Jay,

interesting read. Learned something new from your article.

That looks like what it could be.

Chris

 

[Living_room_fishing]

So why are you not using cophypo salinity is an effective treatment.

Copper is being pulled off shelves and ban in LFS in my area.

So why not hypo salinity. It's an effective treatment and has a lot of health benefits for the fish in the short-term.

Chris

 

[Spare time]

Copper is being pulled off shelves and ban in LFS in my area.

So why not hypo salinity. It's an effective treatment and has a lot of health benefits for the fish in the short-term.

Chris

Interesting. I wonder why copper is being removed. Doesn't seem like there could be an environmental issue

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Copper is being pulled off shelves and ban in LFS in my area.

So why not hypo salinity. It's an effective treatment and has a lot of health benefits for the fish in the short-term.

Chris

All fish medications are restricted in Canada. "Tonics" are still allowed because they are not true medications. It is more about drugs being misdirected for other uses, and veterinarians being kept out of the loop, than for any environmental reason.

Hyposalinity is not without its own drawbacks - Uronema and Velvet infections are actually more common during hypo. Hypo also stresses some species (deep water serranids for example).

Jay

 

[Living_room_fishing]

All fish medications are restricted in Canada. "Tonics" are still allowed because they are not true medications. It is more about drugs being misdirected for other uses, and veterinarians being kept out of the loop, than for any environmental reason.

Hyposalinity is not without its own drawbacks - Uronema and Velvet infections are actually more common during hypo. Hypo also stresses some species (deep water serranids for example).

Jay

Hey Jay,

I hope your doing well.

Day 100 is almost here for my DT.

In my QT tank my purple tang and clowns have been doing great. They look healthy and act totally different from when I first got them. There colours are looking sharp as ever and they are eating like pigs hahaha.

That being I was looking into getting a yellow wrasse (canary wrasse).

Once my qt tank is cleaned out and ready to go again in a few weeks.

Any tips for having a wrasse go through the hyposalinity process? I know they are very sensitive.

Thanks,

Chris

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hey Jay,

I hope your doing well.

Day 100 is almost here for my DT.

In my QT tank my purple tang and clowns have been doing great. They look healthy and act totally different from when I first got them. There colours are looking sharp as ever and they are eating like pigs hahaha.

That being I was looking into getting a yellow wrasse (canary wrasse).

Once my qt tank is cleaned out and ready to go again in a few weeks.

Any tips for having a wrasse go through the hyposalinity process? I know they are very sensitive.

Thanks,

Chris

I've never had any problem with that species and hyposalinity. However, there is a big issue with this species and Uronema right now. We think it may be due in part to longer shipping times due to disruptions caused by the economy and covid. Uronema is one of the diseases that actually thrives under hyposalinity. The fish that see the worst cases of Uronema are green chromis, yellow wrasse and some anthias. Personally, the rates are so high, that I would not buy one of these fish unless it has already been in the country for 30 days or longer.

Jay

 

[MartinM]

I’ll say that a combo of humblefish Peroxide protocol, proper amounts of UV, And 10 µm filter socks with high flow through rate has nipped the problem in the bud for me, no outbreaks in a year now. Previously I was played by it, because I like to keep puffer fish in boxfish. This triple whammy has been a huge blessing.

 

[Living_room_fishing]

I've never had any problem with that species and hyposalinity. However, there is a big issue with this species and Uronema right now. We think it may be due in part to longer shipping times due to disruptions caused by the economy and covid. Uronema is one of the diseases that actually thrives under hyposalinity. The fish that see the worst cases of Uronema are green chromis, yellow wrasse and some anthias. Personally, the rates are so high, that I would not buy one of these fish unless it has already been in the country for 30 days or longer.

Jay

So it would show signs within 30?

So if I found a source that was in that time frame it would be ok I suppose. If it had the disease it would die in hyposalinity anyway most likely, or show signs.

In that cause I would just wipe the QT tank and probably start over.

What about a 6 strip wrasse? My LFS has those in-stock now. Would that be a safer choice?

Chris

 

[Jay Hemdal]

So it would show signs within 30?

So if I found a source that was in that time frame it would be ok I suppose. If it had the disease it would die in hyposalinity anyway most likely, or show signs.

In that cause I would just wipe the QT tank and probably start over.

What about a 6 strip wrasse? My LFS has those in-stock now. Would that be a safer choice?

Chris

45 days is probably a safer bet.

I don't see a lot of Uronema in six stripe wrasse....

Jay

 

[Living_room_fishing]

45 days is probably a safer bet.

I don't see a lot of Uronema in six stripe wrasse....

Jay

Hey Jay,

So while I'm waiting for my 6 line wrasse to come into my lfs, I decided to pick up a butterfly raccoon and a pygmy angel.

So they all looked perfectly healthy and it perfect condition at the store. The guys at the store said they had them almost 2 months with no issues.

In the first 24hrs in quarantine the angel was doing great. Eating and swimming around my qt tank.

The butterfly on the other hand went down hill really fast and wouldn't eat.

I should have taken a picture but I already gave it the royal flush. It got red sores on its belly area and looked like it had red and bloody lookin scratches on one side of it's body. Similar to what this goldfish has on its belly. Also had red marks on its side but not its fins like this.

24hrs before all this happened the fish was in mint condition. Was this stress related or did I bring something in to my qt tank that requires treatment?

There is one other interesting thing that might help. The angel within that 24hrs the looked like it was picking off something that I couldn't see from the butterfly. Not sure if that helps but was unusual.

Thanks,

Chris

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hey Jay,

So while I'm waiting for my 6 line wrasse to come into my lfs, I decided to pick up a butterfly raccoon and a pygmy angel.

So they all looked perfectly healthy and it perfect condition at the store. The guys at the store said they had them almost 2 months with no issues.

In the first 24hrs in quarantine the angel was doing great. Eating and swimming around my qt tank.

The butterfly on the other hand went down hill really fast and wouldn't eat.

I should have taken a picture but I already gave it the royal flush. It got red sores on its belly area and looked like it had red and bloody lookin scratches on one side of it's body. Similar to what this goldfish has on its belly. Also had red marks on its side but not its fins like this.

24hrs before all this happened the fish was in mint condition. Was this stress related or did I bring something in to my qt tank that requires treatment?

There is one other interesting thing that might help. The angel within that 24hrs the looked like it was picking off something that I couldn't see from the butterfly. Not sure if that helps but was unusual.

Thanks,

Chris

Tough to say after the fact. What species of butterfly was it? Did the LFS have trouble catching it up?
Jay

 

[Living_room_fishing]

Tough to say after the fact. What species of butterfly was it? Did the LFS have trouble catching it up?
Jay

The raccoon butterflyfish, also known as the crescent-masked butterflyfish, lunule butterflyfish, halfmoon butterflyfish, moon butterflyfish, raccoon butterfly, raccoon, raccoon coralfish, and redstriped butterflyfish, is a species of marine ray-finned fish, a butterflyfish belonging to the family Chaetodontidae. Wikipedia
Scientific name: Chaetodon lunula
Family: Chaetodontidae

I'm not sure what you ment by catching it up. It was is perfect condition and eating well in the store. It had no markings or signs of being sick.

Could this been some kinda of stress or panic attack that caused this kind of physical markings?

It happened so fast. I never seen anything like this before.

Chris

 

[Jay Hemdal]

The raccoon butterflyfish, also known as the crescent-masked butterflyfish, lunule butterflyfish, halfmoon butterflyfish, moon butterflyfish, raccoon butterfly, raccoon, raccoon coralfish, and redstriped butterflyfish, is a species of marine ray-finned fish, a butterflyfish belonging to the family Chaetodontidae. Wikipedia
Scientific name: Chaetodon lunula
Family: Chaetodontidae

I'm not sure what you ment by catching it up. It was is perfect condition and eating well in the store. It had no markings or signs of being sick.

Could this been some kinda of stress or panic attack that caused this kind of physical markings?

It happened so fast. I never seen anything like this before.

Chris

If the person at the store chased it around too much trying to catch it to put it in the bag, that can cause damage/stress.

Jay

 

[Living_room_fishing]

If the person at the store chased it around too much trying to catch it to put it in the bag, that can cause damage/stress.

Jay

Hey Jay,

A friend of mine brought up an interesting point, so I thought I would get your opinion on it.

Hypothetically speaking, if I were to get a fish from the store and kept it for a few weeks in qt to see if there are any symptoms, and I didn't see anything. No spots, flashing, head bashing, etc.

Would just doing a fresh water dip to get anything laying dormant in the gills be enough instead of the whole hyposalinity process?

If so is there a "best way to do it" if that is an option?

Just wanted to know your thoughts on it.

Thanks,
Chris

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hey Jay,

A friend of mine brought up an interesting point, so I thought I would get your opinion on it.

Hypothetically speaking, if I were to get a fish from the store and kept it for a few weeks in qt to see if there are any symptoms, and I didn't see anything. No spots, flashing, head bashing, etc.

Would just doing a fresh water dip to get anything laying dormant in the gills be enough instead of the whole hyposalinity process?

If so is there a "best way to do it" if that is an option?

Just wanted to know your thoughts on it.

Thanks,
Chris

No, it sounds like it would work, but the reality is the short duration of a dip means it won’t be 100% effective. Also, dips don’t affect some life stages; fluke eggs, ich trophonts or Amyloodinium deep in the gills. Then, when the fish is removed, the disease can start back up. It takes just one Neobenedenia eggs to restart an infection.
FW dips should be used as a diagnostic tool, or to buy some time prior to a full treatment.
Jay